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The New Generation of Star Wars Fans — Page 2

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imperialscum said:

While I appreciate the original versions and I support the struggle to get them released in HD, I just prefer 1997. I am very sensitive to visual aspects and quite frankly most of the original Tatooine scenes in ANH are unsatisfactory and below my standards.

That's some pretty high standards you got there.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

imperialscum said:

While I appreciate the original versions and I support the struggle to get them released in HD, I just prefer 1997. I am very sensitive to visual aspects and quite frankly most of the original Tatooine scenes in ANH are unsatisfactory and below my standards.

That's some pretty high standards you got there.

Well a shot like this just doesn't inspire any of the magical feeling I got from 1997 SE counterpart.

真実

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imperialscum said:

msycamore said:

imperialscum said:

While I appreciate the original versions and I support the struggle to get them released in HD, I just prefer 1997. I am very sensitive to visual aspects and quite frankly most of the original Tatooine scenes in ANH are unsatisfactory and below my standards.

That's some pretty high standards you got there.

Well a shot like this just doesn't inspire any of the magical feeling I got from 1997 SE counterpart.

 Totally agree. "dvdactive" just doesn't convey the same emotions at all.

;)

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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In other words, link fail.  Clear your cache.

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NeverarGreat said:

imperialscum said:

msycamore said:

imperialscum said:

While I appreciate the original versions and I support the struggle to get them released in HD, I just prefer 1997. I am very sensitive to visual aspects and quite frankly most of the original Tatooine scenes in ANH are unsatisfactory and below my standards.

That's some pretty high standards you got there.

Well a shot like this just doesn't inspire any of the magical feeling I got from 1997 SE counterpart.

 Totally agree. "dvdactive" just doesn't convey the same emotions at all.

;)

Your settings are wrong or you're using IE, works fine here.

"Most" of the Tatooine scenes actually are untouched, that's just one shot and it was analyzed to bits quite recently in some thread.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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No, those images have hotlink protection. You'll have to rehost them elsewhere. I'd suggest imgur.

Forum Moderator
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LexX said:

NeverarGreat said:

imperialscum said:

msycamore said:

imperialscum said:

While I appreciate the original versions and I support the struggle to get them released in HD, I just prefer 1997. I am very sensitive to visual aspects and quite frankly most of the original Tatooine scenes in ANH are unsatisfactory and below my standards.

That's some pretty high standards you got there.

Well a shot like this just doesn't inspire any of the magical feeling I got from 1997 SE counterpart.

 Totally agree. "dvdactive" just doesn't convey the same emotions at all.

;)

Your settings are wrong or you're using IE, works fine here.

"Most" of the Tatooine scenes actually are untouched, that's just one shot and it was analyzed to bits quite recently in some thread.

Well a lot of SFX scenes were improved. Here is a link to the website where I got these anyway: http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-one.html

For those who don't see the images... it is the exterior of Ben's house shot.

And of course I remember the thread, it was me who started that discussion anyway. :)

真実

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Tobar said:

No, those images have hotlink protection. You'll have to rehost them elsewhere. I'd suggest imgur.

Like I said, works fine. :)

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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Alright alright, It's fine now.

As for the change, yes the SE version is prettier. And normally I would say that the prettier shot would be better, but this is Tatooine, and it's not supposed to be nice or magical in most shots. The sky isn't supposed to be bright blue, it's supposed to be rather washed out. Tatooine is intentionally below everyone's standards, including and especially Luke's.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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imperialscum said:

Well a lot of SFX scenes were improved. Here is a link to the website where I got these anyway: http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/articles/star-wars-the-changes-part-one.html

For those who don't see the images... it is the exterior of Ben's house shot.

And of course I remember the thread, it was me who started that discussion anyway. :)

Not that what I'm about to say is currently being discussed, but for the record, in that article it stated that the creatures that replaced the Wolfman in ANH were CGI.  They weren't, They were actual costumed characters that were rotoscoped in.

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Mos Eisley is the biggest reason I prefer the Original Untouched Trilogy to the SEs.  What made ep. 4 so special was the lived in believability of the environments.  It came from the European comic books Lucas was into (he has a copy of the book Valerian in his office which is a great Heavy Metal-esqe comic).

The original Mos Eisley looks run down, not alot of people, and overall dumpy.  Its a very used looking Space Port.  The special edition version is populated with CG characters that our eyes know are completely unreal.  It takes us out of the scene and reality of the movie completely. 

The dewback scene, which comes earlier, is similar.  The Dewbacks in the background of the OUT are not moving but our eyes can't make them out that well so it looks real.  The CG dewbacks are obviously animated so the reality of the situation is lost.

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We would not even have to have a discussion over preferred versions were they all released on blu ray in similar quality.

Sadly even the released version which fixed some of the 2004 mistakes left others untouched or made more mistakes.

Only some frames of the lightsabers have the colors corrected, selective color correction.  Selective fixes to the audio rather than including the original mixes, but how could that be included its not the original movie.

Really a patched version of the 2004.  I mean on the 2011 blu ray.  With additional cgi and incredibly stupid noooooooooooooo! added to return of the jedi along with sebulba in jabba's palace and a new stupid cgi door and ewoks eyes blinking.  And of course the new rocks artoo hides behind in star wars.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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ratpack1961 said:

Mos Eisley is the biggest reason I prefer the Original Untouched Trilogy to the SEs.  What made ep. 4 so special was the lived in believability of the environments.  It came from the European comic books Lucas was into (he has a copy of the book Valerian in his office which is a great Heavy Metal-esqe comic).

The original Mos Eisley looks run down, not alot of people, and overall dumpy.  Its a very used looking Space Port.  The special edition version is populated with CG characters that our eyes know are completely unreal.  It takes us out of the scene and reality of the movie completely. 

The dewback scene, which comes earlier, is similar.  The Dewbacks in the background of the OUT are not moving but our eyes can't make them out that well so it looks real.  The CG dewbacks are obviously animated so the reality of the situation is lost.

 I agree this this wholeheartedly.  I feel the same way about Ben's hovel.  The  ranch house that he now seems to own in the SE is not in line with the dirty unwashed desert dweller's robes he is wearing when we first meet him.  The original hut reminds me of the dwellings you would find in spaghetti westerns of the 60's and is in every respect the dwelling in which I would expect to find a desert hermit.  Additionally, Ben is said to live at the edge of the dune sea, a geographic feature that is not visable in SE version, but is _definitively_ implied in the bleak, sandblasted windowless hut of the OOT.

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NeverarGreat said:

As for the change, yes the SE version is prettier. And normally I would say that the prettier shot would be better, but this is Tatooine, and it's not supposed to be nice or magical in most shots. The sky isn't supposed to be bright blue, it's supposed to be rather washed out. Tatooine is intentionally below everyone's standards, including and especially Luke's.

Well this "supposed to" is entirely your assumption. Tatooine is indeed meant to be harsh environment. But harsh does not equal ugly. A lot of desert environments offer some of the most beautiful scenery on Earth. In fact I would argue that in all other episodes Tatooine shots are nice. And arguing that sky in a desert should not be bright blue is very unreasonable.

The reason why half of the Tatooine shots (i.e. from Tunisia) in ANH look unappealing, in my opinion, comes down to two factors. First, they were really unlucky with the weather conditions. Second, they had severe budget limitations.

真実

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skyjedi2005 said:

We would not even have to have a discussion over preferred versions were they all released on blu ray in similar quality.

Well I am sure we would still have such discussions, only they would be in a more relaxed and pleasant manner. Now when I mention that I prefer something from 1997SE, I get the feeling that some OOT fans are replying in a defensive manner - like if I was saying that OOT should not be released in HD. In fact we are in the same situation. I can't watch my favourite versions in HD either. At least OOT is getting some care from fan projects (Harmy etc.).

真実

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KilroyMcFadden said:

ratpack1961 said:

Mos Eisley is the biggest reason I prefer the Original Untouched Trilogy to the SEs.  What made ep. 4 so special was the lived in believability of the environments.  It came from the European comic books Lucas was into (he has a copy of the book Valerian in his office which is a great Heavy Metal-esqe comic).

The original Mos Eisley looks run down, not alot of people, and overall dumpy.  Its a very used looking Space Port.  The special edition version is populated with CG characters that our eyes know are completely unreal.  It takes us out of the scene and reality of the movie completely. 

The dewback scene, which comes earlier, is similar.  The Dewbacks in the background of the OUT are not moving but our eyes can't make them out that well so it looks real.  The CG dewbacks are obviously animated so the reality of the situation is lost.

 I agree this this wholeheartedly.  I feel the same way about Ben's hovel.  The  ranch house that he now seems to own in the SE is not in line with the dirty unwashed desert dweller's robes he is wearing when we first meet him.  The original hut reminds me of the dwellings you would find in spaghetti westerns of the 60's and is in every respect the dwelling in which I would expect to find a desert hermit.  Additionally, Ben is said to live at the edge of the dune sea, a geographic feature that is not visable in SE version, but is _definitively_ implied in the bleak, sandblasted windowless hut of the OOT.

 I'm amazed this needs explaining 'round these parts.

imperialscum said:

this "supposed to" is entirely your assumption. Tatooine is indeed meant to be harsh environment. But harsh does not equal ugly. A lot of desert environments offer some of the most beautiful scenery on Earth. In fact I would argue that in all other episodes Tatooine shots are nice.

You're missing the point. Making the environment unpleasant to look at conveys its harshness. It doesn't matter whether it was an intentional decision or an accident resulting from the limitations during the actual shoot, or budget restrictions, or whatever else. Tatooine isn't set up as a magical place. Quite the contrary: it's a dump. Making Tatooine "magical" and easy on the eyes is basically the exact same thing as making Luke scream as he's supposed to be falling to his voluntary death in ESB. It shows that whoever made these changes didn't understand the scenes he was changing and the implications of these changes. The same goes for, say, Greedo trying to shoot Han.

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m_s0 said:

You're missing the point. Making the environment unpleasant to look at conveys its harshness. It doesn't matter whether it was an intentional decision or an accident resulting from the limitations during the actual shoot, or budget restrictions, or whatever else. Tatooine isn't set up as a magical place. Quite the contrary: it's a dump.

No, I am not missing the point. I just don't agree with that point. Most should easily recognise a harsh environment even if it visually nice. I believe these films aren't specifically made for mentally challenged people and there is no need to make everything plain obvious.

Star Wars is a fantasy and imo it should look magical (in fact it does for the most part). Hoth is a harsh place, even more so than Tatooine, yet the shots in ESB look visually pleasant (at least to me). Dagobah is a harsh place and yet it looks very magical.

真実

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i thought the SE shots blended a lot better in the '04 version, what with the color correction and all.

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RicOlie_2 said:

What colour correction? :P

2004 had overall colour tone shifted toward blue. Admittedly I like that. To be honest, 2004 would actually be perfect for me if it wasn't for the stupid ghost scene change and Boba Fett voice change.

真実

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I would think it was more shifted to green. Possibly teal. Judging from the uncorrected lightsaber shots.

To answer the original question though: I suppose, when our kids grow up, they'll understand.

Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.

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I think we ought to start talking about how the audio mixes sounded so much better in the 2004 DVD and Blu-ray releases, just so we can watch h_h's head spin around.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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I've actually come to find Tatooine a magical place of sorts. Not on the surface, mind you, in its towns and other settlements, but in its deep desert regions, where there are few men. It is there where I get a sense that the planet has some deep, hidden secrets -- like its own version of Atlantis buried out there somewhere in the Dune Sea or something along those lines.

Of course, how much of this has been influenced by the EU I can't say.