Sign In

The Mandalorian - a general discussion thread - * SPOILERS * — Page 49

Author
Time

Very good point. Luke’s school would be somewhere where Ben could stay that is away from home. We wouldn’t need to see Han to see Ben.

Max rebo has no arms, only legs.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I saw chapter 16 again today. There were a couple of things I would have liked to be a bit different (for example, having the Dark troopers actually breach the door and corner the heroes until Luke does his thing) but overall was a great (even if uneven) experience. The last five minutes with Luke and Grogu’s goodbye once again had me on the verge of tears.

I think the digital de-aging treatment on Luke look better now that I’ve gotten accustomed to them. Not as flawless as what some of the Marvel films have accomplished, but better than Leia in Rogue One, for example. Are there different companies doing the de-aging FX for Star Wars and Marvel?

Do you people think the Dark Troopers will make a comeback? Honestly I’m longing for more action involving them.

Author
Time

Marvel de-ages the real actors, while Lucasfilm are using stand-ins. The results are clear when the best use of this was Kurt Russell in GOTG2 i.e. his makeup was done first to help the effect.

The Dark Troopers were cool but now they’ve had their limitations shown it needs something new. You can’t have an enemy that is nearly invincible until a lightsaber arrives, there’s no room for a style of battle scene in between. I expect they will explore whatever the bodies were that rejected Grogu’s blood in Chapter 12.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Regarding Bo Katan and the Dark Saber, I didn’t feel like they left anything hanging. I thought her performance pretty clearly conveyed the sense that she desperately wanted it, was supremely disappointed at what Din had unwittingly done, but was clearly choosing not to pick a fight over it right then and there. She obviously needed some time to think about what had happened and how she could “fix” it for herself. But she wasn’t ready to up and kill Din right then and there and was choosing to wait. For now…

Author
Time

I’m late, but here’s a proper review of The Rescue:

I loved it on a first watch and still think it’s a great, but I have become more mixed since. It needs a rewatch.

The opening scene is a great: it is well worth seeing how different Imperials are coping with them being out of power in the galaxy. It was an interesting choice to have an opening dedicated to further development and conflict for Cara Dune, and the anger she showed made the scene feel like it was setting up an event involving Cara later in the episode. Unfortunately this scene - although necessary to the plot - felt like a bit of an outlier, because that was never followed up on. Also, I’d like to give credit to Thomas E. Sullivan for playing the most punchable Imperial ever.

I liked the planet they landed on to find Bo Katan. It felt like a Star Wars version of Northern England. The tension shown between protagonists - Bo and Koska Reeves against Boba, and later, Bo Katan against Mando (a conflict necessarily reserved for a future season) - is even more engaging than protagonists vs evil antagonists, and it was handled brilliantly.

I think the biggest thing to praise about this episode was the depiction of the Dark Troopers; I already loved their design, but this episode made them scary and they raised the stakes no end. They reminded me of The Terminator quite a bit. They have suitably robotic animations, like stop-motion in some places, which I liked. Din struggles so much with one, when dozens start punching their way in to the bridge I was the most tense I’ve ever been in any Star Wars content. There have been instances where other Star Wars characters face impossible odds, like over Endor or Exegol, but you know REALLY that they’ll pull through in the end; nothing beats effective film-making on a smaller scale, as in this instance I really thought: there’s no way out.

For me, Luke’s interaction with Mando would have been perfect if it went something like this:
“Are you a Jedi?”
"̶I̶’̶m̶ ̶L̶u̶k̶e̶ ̶S̶k̶y̶w̶a̶l̶k̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶I̶’̶m̶ ̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶r̶e̶s̶c̶u̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶!̶"̶
“I am. My name is Luke Skywalker.”

A shot of Cara, as she realises this is the man who avenged her homeworld, tying back a little to the opening scene.

“I’m building a new Jedi Order…” etc. etc. As it is, Mando knows nothing about Luke or where he’s taking Grogu, and the scene feels somewhat unbelievable. But I think the dialogue Luke DID have fit well. “He will not be safe until he masters his abilities,” seems like an intentional contrast to Ahsoka’s “Better to let his abilities fade,” where she’s acting out of concern more than Luke. I’m sure Luke would also change his mind after teaching one Ben Solo everything he knows.

Ehm, sorry about the big wall of text. I’m still trying to comprehend all that happened. It was a shame that Gideon, who’d been used effectively sparingly up until this point, was dealt with fairly easily. He’s probably imprisoned now or something. The Rescue felt like a penultimate episode in some ways, because of Cara and the to-be-continued conflict between Din and Bo Katan, and at the same time like a finale to the entire show. I still feel like Din and Grogu’s relationship, even at this point, was still just beginning. I’ve NO idea what’ll happen in the next season regarding that.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

Author
Time

I like images, so here are some: comparisons between the Dark Troopers and Terminator.



“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

Author
Time

Yeah. But also they reminded me of

Author
Time

Stuff can be two things

You’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Am I making Carrie Fisher’s ghost proud?”
Well, are ya, punk?

Author
Time

You know, the tension between Boba Fett and Bo Katan’s posse gave me a small epiphany.

Like many here, I vastly prefer the OOT to any subsequent version. I never much liked the way Boba was handled in and after AotC. But his role in The Mandalorian has softened my opinion on his “official” history even if I still don’t love him being a clone. Anyway, the way they pointed out his voice giving him away really struck me. It makes total sense he’d use some kind of vocoder to alter his voice after the clone wars and during Imperial rule. So the original ESB version still works within “true” cannon. Or, (more importantly to me), the Boba Fett in this show and the original ESB aren’t incongruent with each other. Yay!

Also, it even works with him no altering his voice in the show because at this point, with the empire ousted and the clone wars a distant memory for many, it’s less of a concern that people would recognize his voice or, if they do, care.

Of course, don’t get me started on the idea of millions of clones all having the same regional accent…

Author
Time

canofhumdingers said:

Also, it even works with him no altering his voice in the show because at this point, with the empire ousted and the clone wars a distant memory for many, it’s less of a concern that people would recognize his voice or, if they do, care.

I’m guessing that’s what Cobb Vanth was talking about when he told Din Djarin to tell his people he wasn’t the one who broke that.

Author
Time

I just got to watch the last episode, and I’ve gotta say, that was certainly a…thing…that happened.

First, the Good:

The opening was solid, and the cruiser incursion was pretty good. The fight between Gideon and Mando was so much better than the previous fights with the Beskar spear, the glowing of the metal really helped sell the danger of the Darksaber. The Dark Troopers were similarly intimidating and well-utilized in the episode. Also, it was nice to see an all-female strike team in action. Din and the child were wonderful, and him taking off his helmet wasn’t cheapened by its removal in the previous episode for me since it felt like an organic process of slowly opening up to others. Luke’s role was good…on paper. Which leads me to

The Bad:

I’m not going to comment on Luke’s physical appearance here, since it’s been discussed enough. Rather, the far bigger problem for me was the way in which he was introduced.

From the moment the X-wing touches down on the cruiser, we suspect it’s Luke, even casual viewers such as my girlfriend who immediately asked ‘That can’t be Luke, can it? Is it Luke?!’ The question is almost immediately answered as we are treated to the cloaked figure and then the green lightsaber as he mows down dozens of droids leading to the bridge. Cut back to the bridge where we see everyone watching on the screens as this guy lays waste to the droids, and finally he arrives in the last hallway where we have another action scene of him destroying machinery in highly theatrical ways. Finally the doors open to reveal…Luke. The guy we revealed two scenes ago. He stands calmly, almost serenely, as our heroes behold him in almost religious awe. Artoo is by his side like an attendant cherubim, and Luke says the proper words to receive the child.

So yeah, this feels peak fanservice to me, and not in a good way. How much better it would have been if we had seen only the X-wing arriving, then had the droids continue their assault on the bridge? They might bring their weapons to bear on the door, and as it glowed red hot from their assault and they began to break through we would finally hear a commotion behind them and they would stop their assault. Din moves forward to investigate. Through a hole in the melting door he would see flashes and blaster fire. Could that be the sound of a lightsaber? Finally, a bright light flashes through the still-melted door accompanied by the squeal of a final dying droid, and is quickly drawn back.

Silence.

Din moves to open the door, his hand over the button. One of the others protests in fear, not knowing who or what is on the other side. Din lowers his hand. Then a deep rumble permeates the bridge, and the door moves of its own, to reveal a small, cloaked figure, his hood up. Behind him lie smoking remains. He lowers his hood. “Did someone call for a Jedi?” His eyes move over the room, settling on Gideon. “I’m sorry, were those your droids?” The child peeks out from behind a panel. Luke catches himself, as if he’s seen a ghost.

You get the idea. It’s still fanservice, but it doesn’t waste time with mindless lightsaber action. The focus should still be on Din and the others, not on badass Luke. Now if they go with a somber, religious-icon Luke, fine, but I fear that they did it for the same reason they made Rouge One Leia into a Madonna-like figure - they are just too afraid of audience rejection to give them any character at all.

Believe it or not, I liked the episode overall. The core of the story remains, and it did a lot right. It just makes the parts where it stumbles that much more obvious.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

Author
Time

idir_hh said:

That’s not the story of the ST. You both proved my point.

Edit: I honestly don’t want to get into long posts about semantics. Let’s just move along.

Particularly since they have nothing to do with this show.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Listen, it don’t really matter to me, baby.
You believe what you want to believe.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

canofhumdingers said:

I really enjoyed it. Is it perfect? Nah. Are there nits to be picked? Sure.

But this show, like Rogue One before it, just hits all the right Star Wars notes for me and I’m just along for the ride at this point. I’m beyond caring about critiquing this on any kind of intellectual level. I’m ready to just let it wash over me like ocean waves and enjoy the experience.

Can’t wait to see where next season goes and I’m genuinely intrigued by the Book of Boba Fett.

That’s exactly how I feel. I’m watching and going along for the ride. I don’t analyze every line or character to see how they fit with other trilogies, or Canon A, B, C, D, E, F, etc, etc, or any EU. If I recognize a character, know their past, and it works each week - great. If it doesn’t or I don’t know the reference because I’m not familiar with the Prequels - that’s fine too.

I’m not someone who has ever spent much time trying to force a connection between characters and stories into some sort of mental or personal canon. I’m certainly not going to start now. Star Wars, as a franchise, is way too big of a mess for that.

I’m enjoying this new adventure and new characters. This makes me happy the way 1977 made me happy. I don’t need or want more than that.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Listen, it don’t really matter to me, baby.
You believe what you want to believe.

Author
Time

I also think it is possible to simultaneously love it and look at it critically.

With each episode, I always think the strengths and weaknesses of the plot, pacing, and characterization. It’s the same thing I do with anything I watch.

But at the same time, my inner child just loves seeing all of this. I watch every episode with my dad, and he is the type of Star Wars fan that loves it all. He grew up on the OT, I grew up with the PT and we shared that together, and we got to experience the ST both as adults. And while I caught myself being critical about certain aspects of all the movies, my dad rarely ever complains. He loves it all, and is just glad we are getting more Star Wars.

I look at the shows and movies critically because I love Star Wars and I want these stories to be as great as they possibly can be. But, I also love Star Wars for what it is. While the critical me thinks they could’ve handled Luke better (could he not even introduce himself?!), I would be lying if I said that me and my dad weren’t watching it and going, “IS THAT WHO WE THINK IT IS? ARE THEY REALLY DOING THIS??”

And then there’s mom, who is amused at her middle-aged husband and her grown-up son screaming at the TV like children.

Author
Time

RogueLeader said:

I also think it is possible to simultaneously love it and look at it critically.

This, this, so much this!

It’s become all too common for people to see a critique and assume that means you hate the thing you’re critiquing.

I have major problems with the final scenes of the finale, but I genuinely, thoroughly enjoyed the vast majority of everything that came before then, and that rings true for the series as a whole - I have some major issues with it from time to time, and I’m going to speak to those issues when they arise, but on the whole? I’m enjoying it and will keep tuning in.

Author
Time

Some other things I forgot to mention before: I thought the female Imperial comms officer was wasted a little. She’s played by martial arts expert Katy O’Brian, but although Sasha Banks’ wrestling skills got put to good use against Boba Fett, Katy’s character was underutilised a little. Cara Dune and friends have it pretty easy storming the bridge, so it would be nice if she’d put up more of a fight; as it is, I think she’s shot in the back by Fennec Shand in the background of one shot. This is a minor complaint though, that comms officer is still awesome.

The way Luke behaves, it’s as if he’s watched The Mandalorian season 2 up to this point and just when the heroes are in a hopeless situation he goes “well, that’s my cue” and makes his entrance. He seems in complete knowledge of everything going on. I think this makes sense because when Grogu was on the seeing stone, he must have established a connection with Luke, with Luke being able to see what he looked like (and getting over the surprise of finding a Yoda-like being) and feel the bond he has with this Mandalorian. The trouble is, the audience don’t know that. Luke being impassive is fitting for an older, wiser Jedi master, but a smile whenever he picked up Grogu might have been quite nice.

This isn’t a criticism of the episode at all, in fact it’s the opposite: I like the Darktroopers so much that I’m sad they’re all spare parts. I hope they make a return. Interesting that Dr Perishing called them ‘3rd generation’, perhaps the darktroopers seen in the apparently canon Star Wars Commander game were the suits he was talking about.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

Author
Time

“Third generation” brings to mind the Phase III Dark Troopers from the original Dark Forces video game, where that applied to a version that could be worn as an exoskeleton by flesh-and-blood Imperial troops.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

Author
Time

ATMachine said:

“Third generation” brings to mind the Phase III Dark Troopers from the original Dark Forces video game, where that applied to a version that could be worn as an exoskeleton by flesh-and-blood Imperial troops.

Yeah I got that reference too.

I’m confident that this won’t be the last we’ll see of the Dark Troopers. They were scarily effective antagonists.

What do you think of the recent fan canon about Bo-Katan’s first campaign having failed because she didn’t gather that much support on the basis of the legitimacy of her claim to the Darksaber? Maybe the more conservative Mandalorians opposed her the fact that the Darksaber was given to her voluntarily rather than earning it in single combat, as Sabine and presumably Vizsla did. That could be the reason why she’s so hell-bent in beating Gideon herself.

Author
Time

I think that’s a valid explanation. Gideon emphasises the power of story that comes with the Darksaber - in Rebels Sabine had a compelling story around how she claimed the darksaber and redeemed her previous mistakes, but there wasn’t so much of a story around her giving it to Bo Katan because she felt Bo was more worthy.

This seeming continuity error doesn’t worry me. In season 1 it seemed like they were taking a bit of a liberty having the Mandalorians honour-bound to never remove their helmets, because it worked better for the story, but there was a great explanation provided for that. It’s beginning to look like the same will happen here, although I doubt Sabine will be mentioned by name.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

Author
Time

Tobar said:

Omni said:

I’m really unhappy with the characterization they gave him. He’s already the cold, calculist Jedi Master, the one that fails Ben and prompts the ST into existence, and… that’s not Luke. Luke is all about emotions and attachments, that’s how he saved his father’s soul. He went against his masters, he was a truly unorthodox Jedi, that’s how he won. He won through love, he understands that that’s what the Jedi are all about, so that’s how his Jedi Order should be. And that character would never remove Grogu, an infant, from the care of a loving father figure, because he knows the importance of such a figure. That was my biggest - and only - problem with TLJ Luke too (that got a pass because Hamill’s just so fantastic). I buy depressed/disillusioned Luke, that’s an extremely emotional Luke, but I don’t buy how he got there, and it’s already showing here. How he seems to have become a cold, detached Jedi, without the love and compassion that won the revolution and his father’s heart in ROTJ. That’s exactly why the PT Jedi failed and exactly why he fails in the post-ROTJ world, but it goes directly against his character IMO.

I’m surprised, to me the Luke from this episode is the exact same Luke we last saw in ROTJ. First, let’s address that Grogu is in fact a danger to those around him. We’ve already seen this when he force choked Cara Dune last season over an arm wrestling match. He’s spent decades alone and afraid and needs guidance on how to control his emotions or he runs a very high risk of either falling to the darkside and/or hurting someone by accident.

Now getting back to Luke. Luke doesn’t just show up and snatch Grogu and run off. He’s there because Grogu called out for help on Tython. And Grogu wants to go with him as is made clear in the dialog of that scene. What you interpret as cold and detached, I interpret as the serenity he carried himself with through Return of the Jedi. Throughout that scene Luke is very warm and reassuring with both Mando and Grogu. He assures Mando that he will protect the child with his life, he reasserts why it’s so important that Grogu complete his training. He gives them all the time they need to say goodbye for now. And he continues to reassure Mando with a “see he’ll be okay” look while Grogu is interacting with Artoo.

It was all consistent with the compassionate Luke I know from the end of the Original Trilogy.

Very good points, Tobar. I’ve been going back and forth on what you said and what I said. I initially had the same impression as you, but then when I gave it more thought it left a sour taste in my mouth, then I came to terms with it again, and so on.

I think once again the rushed execution is to blame. For this season it really feels like Favreau and Filoni lost track of how much stuff they wanted to put in. Since they wanted to do so much story-wise, introducing many new characters and plot threads, and literally wrapping up (for now) Grogu’s story, I don’t think we had the time for a filler episode with Frog Lady, for instance, even if episodes like that are at the very core of the show.

I’m also a bit surprised by how much acclaim Luke’s appearance is getting. I loved it, but only because it’s Luke and I have my nostalgia and love goggles on. Otherwise, from a narrative standpoint, it’s very anticlimatic. The episode is all about the crew and specifically Din giving everything they could to rescue Grogu. That as soon as they find him he immediately gets taken away, is very awkward writing. Again, it mostly works because it’s Luke and everyone loves him and the writers obviously knew that when writing the script, they only wrote it like this because it’s Luke, but it’s weird nonetheless, and I’m never too fond of when something works solely on the grounds of nostalgia.

Author
Time

Lucasfilm 2020 Christmas Card

Author
Time

Christian Alzmann is a great artist, I’m glad he got to do it. I’ve really enjoyed seeing his concept art for the show.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

Author
Time

I’ll always cherish the times of Din Djarin and Grogu on the Razor Crest.