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The Mandalorian - a general discussion thread - * SPOILERS * — Page 47

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If they can’t get it right here, then making it work for a whole new show is in doubt. I would have loved for the ending here to make me feel positive. Really. I would love to feel like ‘wow Luke is here what an ending’. Instead I just though ‘oh god this again’.

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Mocata said:

If they can’t get it right here, then making it work for a whole new show is in doubt. I would have loved for the ending here to make me feel positive. Really. I would love to feel like ‘wow Luke is here what an ending’. Instead I just though ‘oh god this again’.

That’s exactly how I felt. Wanted to love it but couldn’t see past the uncanniness of it. It’s very interesting that there’s such a divide in people’s reception to it. Most seem to be on board, but I’m seeing more reactions like yours and mine. Really shows how subjective this stuff is. I’d much rather see genuine acting, even if it’s not Hamill or if he looked a little older than he should have. Picture-perfect facial replication just doesn’t do anything for me.

My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXnq2soRMB-8vqvL-6NHIOg

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I have a strong feeling we’re going to eventually learn that this episode was in the middle of production when the pandemic lockdowns hit. The last 15-20 minutes just smacks of being cobbled together from disparate elements they had to film piecemeal over the spring/summer without having everyone together all at once. It wasn’t just Luke that looked like absolute ass - Pedro Pascal’s head looked very awkwardly cut and pasted into the scene, and he looked way too different from when he last removed his helmet just an episode or two ago, which doesn’t make sense unless there was a LONG time between filming those two.

Also, super irritated that the Mando/Bo-Katan conflict that had just presented itself was put on pause for Luke to show up and do his twirly light show, only for them to never unpause it, leaving that thread dangling without it feeling like a proper cliffhanger.

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There were two or three shots of Luke that I thought were really off, but other than that, I think it was great. Like it has already been noted, the de-aged voice in particular was fantastic.

Overall I think S2 was better than S1, but this week’s episode was subpar, IMO. As soon as I finished watching it I was obviously in awe, I felt like a kid again, I teared up, all that. I mean, fuck yeah, that’s Jedi Master Luke, he’s literally my favorite character ever by a good mile, and he’s back and in his prime! I was so happy. Last time I was this happy with a sequence was Master Skywalker in TLJ and before that Vader going apeshit on the Rebels in RO, which curiously is a very similar sequence to this one. You also have the emotional Din & Grogu moment, which is just fantastic. So I walked out of the episode in awe.

However, I thought it was VERY rushed. Compare it to last week’s episode: they dedicated the entirety of Chapter 15 to the quest of finding the location of the cruiser. There was room to breathe, several character moments for both Din and Mayfeld, the action didn’t feel overwhelming because there was actually tension building up due to the slower pace. There were scenes of people sitting down and talking. This one felt like it should’ve either been 20 - 30mins longer and/or be split in two. So much happened. And most of it is not very good - the way they brought back Bo-Katan felt incredibly rushed. A 1min scene in a bar, a 20sec scene planning an attack, then BAM, just action upon action and more action and, WOW, look at that, even more action! And I wasn’t invested at all, killing hundreds of stormtroopers isn’t really interesting anymore. I will say I loved the opening with the scientist and the chase and hostage crisis, though, that was great. The Din and Gideon sword fight was also fantastic.

It doesn’t help that the one character aspect of the whole Bo-Katan affair was just brushed aside, for no good reason other than “Wow, look, Luke’s here!”, either. The problem isn’t that Luke got the spotlight (though some would say that that in itself is a problem, and I’d potentially agree), it’s that they literally ditched the Mandalore aspect of the episode and don’t even go back, like, not even for a couple more lines. I mean… right, we had to have a resolution to Grogu’s story (but not a final resolution like this episode appears to be, that’s rushed!), it’s what the season was all about, but the Mandalore aspect is also very important - Din’s whole identity is in check, come on - and they literally just forget about it. Obviously they were setting up something to be resolved in the next season, but, I mean, literally not even go back for one more shot, really? End the episode on Luke and Grogu? I dunno, I think we needed at least a little bit more in order for it to feel like a proper cliffhanger, in order for stakes to actually be high.

Regarding Luke: I love that he’s back, and I hope we get to see more of him, but that’s fanboy me talking. I had hopes and kind of expected him to show up once the temple thing was mentioned, but realistically I thought there was no way. But, alas, I was actually right, he did show up, and I had a blast. However… if I actually choose to turn my brain on, I’m really unhappy with the characterization they gave him. He’s a cold, calculist Jedi Master, and… that’s not Luke. Luke is all about emotions and attachments, that’s how he saved his father’s soul. He went against his masters, he was a truly unorthodox Jedi, that’s how he won. He won through love, he understands that that’s what the Jedi are all about, so that’s how his Jedi Order should be. And that character would never remove Grogu, an infant, from the care of a loving father figure, because he knows the importance of such a figure. That was my biggest - and only - problem with TLJ Luke too (that got a pass because Hamill’s just so fantastic). I buy depressed/disillusioned Luke, that’s an extremely emotional Luke, but I don’t buy how he got there, and it’s already showing here. How he seems to have become a cold, detached Jedi, without the love and compassion that won the revolution and his father’s heart in ROTJ. That’s exactly why the PT Jedi failed and exactly why he fails in the post-ROTJ world, but it goes directly against his character IMO.

I dunno though, maybe I don’t really understand the character, I guess. But then again, maybe Mando’s writers actually agree with me, but are stuck with this characterization since this is a prequel to the ST after all, and JJ Abrams and co. chose to give Luke’s OT arc to Rey, at the cost of coherence between OT and ST Luke. Rian still managed to bring back idealist Luke, but other than his redemption in TLJ, we’re told he was just another PT Jedi for a good while, which is the antithesis of his OT journey. Sad.

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Yeah chapter 14 and 16 felt rushed to me which is a shame.

Anyway I made a thing for some levity around here.

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Ha! That wasn’t the only time this episode I thought about TPM. The Din and Grogu moment is the Anakin and Shmi moment except it’s good.

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  • What happens to Gideon and the Scientist now?
  • Will we actually hear more about Gideon’s research project, or is hinting that it’s part of creating Snoke all we need because this show is not about that?
  • Was that all his research project was about, or was he trying to give himself Force powers???
  • What happens with Bo-Katan and Din? It’s not like she wants to kill him, what with all the help he’s been. She’s not without honor.
  • Did this resurrect the “Boba Fett is not a Mandalorian” debate?
  • How does Grogu escape Kylo & The Knights of Ren?
  • When and where will Grogu & Din see each other again? Like, when Din is 90 years old and still ruling Mandalore, and Master Rey dispatches her cutest Knight as an emissary to the Mandalorians?
  • Did they have Boba fly away just so that he and Luke wouldn’t run into each other? It would go even worse than if Ahsoka & Luke met (I assume she would just not trust him, being his father’s son)
  • Was Luke’s whole plan to just show up in an X-Wing by himself and capture Grogu? I guess he can do that.
  • Did Cara recognize him as the great hero of the Rebellion who blew up the machine that destroyed her planet? Unless she did, I don’t think anyone on that bridge actually knew the name of the guy who took Grogu with him.
  • Did Artoo and Grogu recognize each other from their Old Republic days? Did Artoo spend time with the Younglings?

I actually don’t think they’ll have Luke play a big role in any of the shows after this. Like maybe a cameo, maybe, but they’d be smart to not use him much at all.

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Mocata said:

jedi_bendu said:

I’m certain ILM worked incredibly hard to get this effect, like they did with Tarkin, and that’s enough for me. Although I still think Sebastian Stan would have worked well, it’s a great thing that old Mark Hamill can still have a chance at playing young Luke Skywalker.

And I think they should know by now to stop burning money on this stuff that always fails and has to be fixed by amateur deep fake people online. Mark Hamill can still have the role, but when it’s so prohibitive (to the budget and the performance) they need to do it another way. Give him a beard, do practical makeup, do something else. It’s gonna age like milk. Evidently people haven’t complained enough.

Hallelujah. This is exactly how I feel. I feel like there are so many talented people at ILM, and they pour so much effort into creating and rigging these detailed 3d models like with Tarkin, and it always ventures into the uncanny valley. ILM should ask Weta Digital for help if they need to. It makes me sad knowing that there is so much potential at ILM and they never seem to learn from their mistakes reviving/de-aging actors. I know it’s not a limitation of our current technology. Other studios like Weta Digital have created mind-blowing de aging visual effects like with Will Smith in Gemini Man, and even self-taught deepfakers like Shamook are able to paste an actors face onto a double with superior quality. I hope Lucasfilm actually learns from the negative public reaction to these actor vfx.

Max rebo has no arms, only legs.

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I really doubt Luke is coming back. Then again, I doubted Luke would show up at all.

I’m really hoping we get more answers about what Gideon was trying to do with Grogu’s blood. Execution aside, I don’t really know how to feel about Grogu going off with Luke. Like is that it? No more Grogu? Is that story arc completely wrapped, or is he coming back? If that’s really the end, that really feels…underwhelming.

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Cthulhunicron said:

I’m really hoping we get more answers about what Gideon was trying to do with Grogu’s blood.

Palpatine?

Max rebo has no arms, only legs.

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I really enjoyed it. Is it perfect? Nah. Are there nits to be picked? Sure.

But this show, like Rogue One before it, just hits all the right Star Wars notes for me and I’m just along for the ride at this point. I’m beyond caring about critiquing this on any kind of intellectual level. I’m ready to just let it wash over me like ocean waves and enjoy the experience.

Can’t wait to see where next season goes and I’m genuinely intrigued by the Book of Boba Fett.

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canofhumdingers said:

Can’t wait to see where next season goes and I’m genuinely intrigued by the Book of Boba Fett.

My theory is that book of Fett will be the next season/story of The Mandalorian. This episode concluded the book of Grogu, and now we move onto the Book of Fett. Others were even commenting on how this felt like the end of the series. Plus, Disney said that season 3 of The Mandalorian would be on December 25 of 2021, and I couldn’t see them releasing two major Star wars series at the same time. ALSO (sorry just thought of this) it would be strange for Disney not to have mentioned this on Disney Investor Day if it were a new series.

Max rebo has no arms, only legs.

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Also, (sorry for spamming, very hyped)
Each episode is a chapter ->
all the chapters make up one book, so Book of Fett will start back at chapter 1.

Max rebo has no arms, only legs.

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rebothejedi said:

Cthulhunicron said:

I’m really hoping we get more answers about what Gideon was trying to do with Grogu’s blood.

Palpatine?

That would be my guess, but this just feels kind of like an underwhelming ending if this is supposed to be the end of the Grogu story arc. We still don’t even know how he escaped the Jedi purge, or why he has gaps in his memory.

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I’m so pumped by this series and what’s coming soon!

The effects and editing were a bit rough around the edges, but never anything too jarring. Even Luke’s de-aging got me totally clueless. For a moment I thought he was Sebastian Stan until I took a better look at his face.

They’ll definitely find a way for Grogu to survive, I refuse to believe he’ll be killed by the time of the ST. My personal theory is that could there be distinct parallel Jedi organizations or factions besides Luke’s one.

I was a bit confused by Bo-Katan’s motivations. She really seemed to grasp the idea that actual combat was needed to get the Darksaber, but the first time she claimed that weapon she didn’t earn it by defeating someone, it was voluntarily given to her by Sabine. Since Filoni is involved in all of this maybe we could get this addressed in the third season.

Also where was Axe Woves?

Ed Slushie said:

Back to the latest episode of Mando, was it just me, or has Ludwig Gorranson not used any of John Williams’ original motifs aside from the Force Theme?

A bit of Yoda’s theme appeared in “The Jedi” when Ahsoka mentioned Yoda. A variant of the March of the Resistance also played to represent the New Republic in chapters 10 and 12.

These, and Ahsoka’s Theme (not from Williams but from Kevin Kiner), seem to be the only motifs in the Mandalorian not to have been originally composed by Goransson.

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First of all, you have a great name. Second, while I don’t think we will be seeing Grogu in the Mandalorian again, I don’t think his story is over. I think there’s a good chance of him tying into any of the new series, especially Ahsoka. Her appearance in the Mandalorian was definitely setting up for something else, and I think her relationship with Grogu will develop.

Max rebo has no arms, only legs.

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Cthulhunicron said:

I really doubt Luke is coming back. Then again, I doubted Luke would show up at all.

I’m really hoping we get more answers about what Gideon was trying to do with Grogu’s blood. Execution aside, I don’t really know how to feel about Grogu going off with Luke. Like is that it? No more Grogu? Is that story arc completely wrapped, or is he coming back? If that’s really the end, that really feels…underwhelming.

I also feel underwhelmed, and for the exact same reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Budu1ux09Rs

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Make the sequel trilogy into a possible future that Luke sees in a Jedi vision.

Thus we can FEEL his trepidation and fear about how REAL that felt, because, in a way, it was. It’s very real, and the fact it IS real is why Luke has to work so hard to prevent it.

Make a story about his desperation to prevent that from happening. As an audience, we’d want him to succeed and find the “happy ending” that we already know won’t happen–thus creating narrative tension.

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Omni said:

I’m really unhappy with the characterization they gave him. He’s already the cold, calculist Jedi Master, the one that fails Ben and prompts the ST into existence, and… that’s not Luke. Luke is all about emotions and attachments, that’s how he saved his father’s soul. He went against his masters, he was a truly unorthodox Jedi, that’s how he won. He won through love, he understands that that’s what the Jedi are all about, so that’s how his Jedi Order should be. And that character would never remove Grogu, an infant, from the care of a loving father figure, because he knows the importance of such a figure. That was my biggest - and only - problem with TLJ Luke too (that got a pass because Hamill’s just so fantastic). I buy depressed/disillusioned Luke, that’s an extremely emotional Luke, but I don’t buy how he got there, and it’s already showing here. How he seems to have become a cold, detached Jedi, without the love and compassion that won the revolution and his father’s heart in ROTJ. That’s exactly why the PT Jedi failed and exactly why he fails in the post-ROTJ world, but it goes directly against his character IMO.

I’m surprised, to me the Luke from this episode is the exact same Luke we last saw in ROTJ. First, let’s address that Grogu is in fact a danger to those around him. We’ve already seen this when he force choked Cara Dune last season over an arm wrestling match. He’s spent decades alone and afraid and needs guidance on how to control his emotions or he runs a very high risk of either falling to the darkside and/or hurting someone by accident.

Now getting back to Luke. Luke doesn’t just show up and snatch Grogu and run off. He’s there because Grogu called out for help on Tython. And Grogu wants to go with him as is made clear in the dialog of that scene. What you interpret as cold and detached, I interpret as the serenity he carried himself with through Return of the Jedi. Throughout that scene Luke is very warm and reassuring with both Mando and Grogu. He assures Mando that he will protect the child with his life, he reasserts why it’s so important that Grogu complete his training. He gives them all the time they need to say goodbye for now. And he continues to reassure Mando with a “see he’ll be okay” look while Grogu is interacting with Artoo.

It was all consistent with the compassionate Luke I know from the end of the Original Trilogy.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Stepping softly in a danger zone…

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It did amuse me how it was exactly the same Luke design as ROTJ - complete with the single glove and everything. Hadn’t it occurred to him to mix his outfit up in the ~five years since?

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Geez, why do you guys hate this episode so much? I thought it was good. Not the best episode ever, but not an abomination against the Star Wars franchise as we know it like some of you guys are acting.

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sade1212 said:

It did amuse me how it was exactly the same Luke design as ROTJ - complete with the single glove and everything. Hadn’t it occurred to him to mix his outfit up in the ~five years since?

The costume gave me serious Dark Empire vibes.

And cmon, you gotta admit… That cloak was majestic.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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Series has been great if a bit slow and boring at times. It’s not the content itself that I feel is boring, it’s how it’s delivered. A fine season finale brought down by dubious music choice and cgi. Sebastian Stan or any look alike with dubbed voice would have been the more future-proof option.

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StarkillerAG said:

Geez, why do you guys hate this episode so much? I thought it was good. Not the best episode ever, but not an abomination against the Star Wars franchise as we know it like some of you guys are acting.

My thoughts exactly. Although it was a bit rushed and my expectations were high, the episode remained engaging throughout and the ending was incredibly emotional. Seeing Din finally take off the mask voluntarily before parting with Grogu would have been the perfect series finale.

But then the series goes maclunkey and gifts that amazing post-credit scene! And I’m reminded we still have a lot more to go until the ending of this show and other Disney+ properties.

Maul- A Star Wars Story