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The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 251

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 (Edited)

Jeez dude, I didn’t dismiss your post, I corrected one small part of it. I didn’t say a thing about anything else you said.

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Collipso said:

TV’s Frink said:

I didn’t say a thing about anything else you said.

Exactly his point.

So I’m not allowed to correct a minor point without addressing every other single thing he said?

What is it with this place? It’s like rational thinking went on holiday.

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You know what, I’m taking a bit of a break from this topic. It’s absolute insanity, which is to say nothing’s changed.

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 (Edited)

Regarding Carrie’s face in that one shot, I only questioned the complaint because it didn’t make sense. I said nothing against him not liking the shot or thinking it looked bad, he can say whatever he wants, it was just the specifics of the complaint that confused me. But I guess I can’t talk about the movie without being labeled an irrational zealot, regardless of what it is that I’m actually saying. So that’s cool. Wish people would actually engage without making shit up, but what can you do, it’s an internet forum.

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JawsTDS said:

I wish I could put my fist through this whole lousy, beautiful thread.

I don’t think this forum can handle that level of kink.

“I am a writer. Therefore, I am not sane.”

― Edgar Allan Poe

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TV’s Frink said:

Jeez dude, I didn’t dismiss your post, I corrected one small part of it. I didn’t say a thing about anything else you said.

That’s fine. I just interpreted it as you disregarding my reasonable statement and accusing me of dishonesty. It must’ve just been the demons that made interpret it that way, though. 😉

The Person in Question

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DominicCobb said:

adywan said:

You only have to look around places like facebook to see how the RT audience scores have been manipulated. Campaigns were started before the film even come out to give it negative reviews. Not just star wars pages either. 99% of the time, RT was the place they aimed for. After the film came out it got even worse. The amount of posts i had to delete on my page where people had posted links to these type of campaigns was astounding. They even added getting people to upvote the prequels on RT to make TLJ score look even worse. Just check out the ROTS reviews and see just how many new ones have suddenly appeared since TLJ.

There’s a real dark side to the Star Wars fandom and it came out in force after TLJ. The amount of the so called reviews and the negative comments/ attacks on social media that point their hatred for it towards the fact that there is more diversity, more women taking the lead roles, Disney is pandering to the SJW’s etc is disgusting.

Woah ady, slow down with your rash argument.

At least his argument, while anecdotal, deals in reality.

originaltrilogy.com Administrator

MTFBWY

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DuracellEnergizer, you obviously didn’t look at those websites too thoroughly or maybe you were just being ‘selective’ with what you chose to copy/paste. Under the concise definitions on the sites you linked there are examples of usage of the word apologist - shall we take a look?

“Her question reflected a conventional Republican gripe, namely that the State Department is a cooing dovecote, full of apologists for Abroad.”

“The most serious native challenge to liberalism, made by the slaveholding oligarchy of the Old South, was crushed on the battlefield, and, despite the efforts of an ever-dwindling number of apologists, morally anathematized.”

“Its condemnation of America in general and the war in Iraq in particular meant that it became an apologist for totalitarian regimes.”

“The lives of American and British troops should not have been risked to rescue these apologists for terror.”

“English youth have been so educated time out of mind, and we have hundreds of thousands of apologists and admirers of injustice, misery, and brutality, as perpetrated among children.”

And on the Oxford English Dictionary page, the most respected of all dictionary sites, there are 15 given examples of how you would use the word apologist. Every single one has a negative connotation. Every one. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/apologist

Lets take a look!

‘The Soviet Union’s ideology had many adherents and apologists throughout the West.’
‘Obviously there have been, and will be, apologists who want to defend or explain away the embarrassing elements.’
‘Those are my passions and, not infrequently, their proponents and apologists will be my targets.’
‘Religious apologists have tended to argue from authority to justify their beliefs, often quoting from texts such as the Bible.’
‘I’m suggesting simply that they make their presence felt in ways that draw the distinction between themselves and the apologists.’
‘Her alibi, offered by her apologists, is that she was starved of affection - a euphemism for sex.’
‘Nor do the apologists for this failure carry conviction.’
‘Studies in English were produced either by apologists, sensationalists or conspiracy theorists.’
‘The apologists have argued that drugs were not involved in his death.’
‘But it was the nature of the attacks from the political party, its apologists and some journalists that interested me most.’
‘But isn’t an apologist for racism who uses racist arguments a racist?’
‘Only those such as government spokesmen and official apologists for the war would deny this.’
‘My job here is not to be an apologist, but technology can’t always save us from significant changes in human nature.’
‘The only kinds of writers excluded were supporters and apologists of totalitarianism.’
‘There is, of course, no need to imagine people who would make such claims: they were Nazis and their apologists.’
‘I do not intend to get into an argument with an apologist for mass murder such as yourself.’
‘To make a proper argument or ‘apology’ for Christianity, the apologist must speak in the same language as his hearer.’

Case closed gentlemen.

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Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

adywan said:

You only have to look around places like facebook to see how the RT audience scores have been manipulated. Campaigns were started before the film even come out to give it negative reviews. Not just star wars pages either. 99% of the time, RT was the place they aimed for. After the film came out it got even worse. The amount of posts i had to delete on my page where people had posted links to these type of campaigns was astounding. They even added getting people to upvote the prequels on RT to make TLJ score look even worse. Just check out the ROTS reviews and see just how many new ones have suddenly appeared since TLJ.

There’s a real dark side to the Star Wars fandom and it came out in force after TLJ. The amount of the so called reviews and the negative comments/ attacks on social media that point their hatred for it towards the fact that there is more diversity, more women taking the lead roles, Disney is pandering to the SJW’s etc is disgusting.

Woah ady, slow down with your rash argument.

At least his argument, while anecdotal, deals in reality.

True, you could learn something from him.

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Matt.F said:

DuracellEnergizer, you obviously didn’t look at those websites too thoroughly or maybe you were just being ‘selective’ with what you chose to copy/paste. Under the concise definitions on the sites you linked there are examples of usage of the word apologist - shall we take a look?

“Her question reflected a conventional Republican gripe, namely that the State Department is a cooing dovecote, full of apologists for Abroad.”

“The most serious native challenge to liberalism, made by the slaveholding oligarchy of the Old South, was crushed on the battlefield, and, despite the efforts of an ever-dwindling number of apologists, morally anathematized.”

“Its condemnation of America in general and the war in Iraq in particular meant that it became an apologist for totalitarian regimes.”

“The lives of American and British troops should not have been risked to rescue these apologists for terror.”

“English youth have been so educated time out of mind, and we have hundreds of thousands of apologists and admirers of injustice, misery, and brutality, as perpetrated among children.”

And on the Oxford English Dictionary page, the most respected of all dictionary sites, there are 15 given examples of how you would use the word apologist. Every single one has a negative connotation. Every one. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/apologist

Lets take a look!

‘The Soviet Union’s ideology had many adherents and apologists throughout the West.’
‘Obviously there have been, and will be, apologists who want to defend or explain away the embarrassing elements.’
‘Those are my passions and, not infrequently, their proponents and apologists will be my targets.’
‘Religious apologists have tended to argue from authority to justify their beliefs, often quoting from texts such as the Bible.’
‘I’m suggesting simply that they make their presence felt in ways that draw the distinction between themselves and the apologists.’
‘Her alibi, offered by her apologists, is that she was starved of affection - a euphemism for sex.’
‘Nor do the apologists for this failure carry conviction.’
‘Studies in English were produced either by apologists, sensationalists or conspiracy theorists.’
‘The apologists have argued that drugs were not involved in his death.’
‘But it was the nature of the attacks from the political party, its apologists and some journalists that interested me most.’
‘But isn’t an apologist for racism who uses racist arguments a racist?’
‘Only those such as government spokesmen and official apologists for the war would deny this.’
‘My job here is not to be an apologist, but technology can’t always save us from significant changes in human nature.’
‘The only kinds of writers excluded were supporters and apologists of totalitarianism.’
‘There is, of course, no need to imagine people who would make such claims: they were Nazis and their apologists.’
‘I do not intend to get into an argument with an apologist for mass murder such as yourself.’
‘To make a proper argument or ‘apology’ for Christianity, the apologist must speak in the same language as his hearer.’

Case closed gentlemen.

Brought to you by Matt.F.

Who totally doesn’t stink of smug self-satisfaction.

“I am a writer. Therefore, I am not sane.”

― Edgar Allan Poe

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Collipso said:

Yeah, but I think that that’s exactly what some fans don’t want. I became a Star Wars fan around 2007, and one of the things I always thought was special about Star Wars was that it was over. 6 movies and that’s it. The Clone Wars TV series and the EU were a treat, but the big thing was done. And I thought it was gorgeous, from AotC to TESB. And I loved the fact that it was over, and it was going to be there forever as a complete story. Much like The Beatles broke up and that was it. The Anthology albuns and documentary are treats. But the big thing is done. It ended in 1969 much like SW ended in 2005 (or so I thought).

So I for example am not fond at all of the idea of MCUing or 007ing the SWU.

I like this post.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Matt.F said:

DuracellEnergizer, you obviously didn’t look at those websites too thoroughly or maybe you were just being ‘selective’ with what you chose to copy/paste. Under the concise definitions on the sites you linked there are examples of usage of the word apologist - shall we take a look?

“Her question reflected a conventional Republican gripe, namely that the State Department is a cooing dovecote, full of apologists for Abroad.”

“The most serious native challenge to liberalism, made by the slaveholding oligarchy of the Old South, was crushed on the battlefield, and, despite the efforts of an ever-dwindling number of apologists, morally anathematized.”

“Its condemnation of America in general and the war in Iraq in particular meant that it became an apologist for totalitarian regimes.”

“The lives of American and British troops should not have been risked to rescue these apologists for terror.”

“English youth have been so educated time out of mind, and we have hundreds of thousands of apologists and admirers of injustice, misery, and brutality, as perpetrated among children.”

And on the Oxford English Dictionary page, the most respected of all dictionary sites, there are 15 given examples of how you would use the word apologist. Every single one has a negative connotation. Every one. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/apologist

Lets take a look!

‘The Soviet Union’s ideology had many adherents and apologists throughout the West.’
‘Obviously there have been, and will be, apologists who want to defend or explain away the embarrassing elements.’
‘Those are my passions and, not infrequently, their proponents and apologists will be my targets.’
‘Religious apologists have tended to argue from authority to justify their beliefs, often quoting from texts such as the Bible.’
‘I’m suggesting simply that they make their presence felt in ways that draw the distinction between themselves and the apologists.’
‘Her alibi, offered by her apologists, is that she was starved of affection - a euphemism for sex.’
‘Nor do the apologists for this failure carry conviction.’
‘Studies in English were produced either by apologists, sensationalists or conspiracy theorists.’
‘The apologists have argued that drugs were not involved in his death.’
‘But it was the nature of the attacks from the political party, its apologists and some journalists that interested me most.’
‘But isn’t an apologist for racism who uses racist arguments a racist?’
‘Only those such as government spokesmen and official apologists for the war would deny this.’
‘My job here is not to be an apologist, but technology can’t always save us from significant changes in human nature.’
‘The only kinds of writers excluded were supporters and apologists of totalitarianism.’
‘There is, of course, no need to imagine people who would make such claims: they were Nazis and their apologists.’
‘I do not intend to get into an argument with an apologist for mass murder such as yourself.’
‘To make a proper argument or ‘apology’ for Christianity, the apologist must speak in the same language as his hearer.’

Case closed gentlemen.

Brought to you by Matt.F.

Who totally doesn’t stink of smug self-satisfaction.

And this one, too.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Matt.F said:

DuracellEnergizer, you obviously didn’t look at those websites too thoroughly or maybe you were just being ‘selective’ with what you chose to copy/paste. Under the concise definitions on the sites you linked there are examples of usage of the word apologist - shall we take a look?

“Her question reflected a conventional Republican gripe, namely that the State Department is a cooing dovecote, full of apologists for Abroad.”

“The most serious native challenge to liberalism, made by the slaveholding oligarchy of the Old South, was crushed on the battlefield, and, despite the efforts of an ever-dwindling number of apologists, morally anathematized.”

“Its condemnation of America in general and the war in Iraq in particular meant that it became an apologist for totalitarian regimes.”

“The lives of American and British troops should not have been risked to rescue these apologists for terror.”

“English youth have been so educated time out of mind, and we have hundreds of thousands of apologists and admirers of injustice, misery, and brutality, as perpetrated among children.”

And on the Oxford English Dictionary page, the most respected of all dictionary sites, there are 15 given examples of how you would use the word apologist. Every single one has a negative connotation. Every one. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/apologist

Lets take a look!

‘The Soviet Union’s ideology had many adherents and apologists throughout the West.’
‘Obviously there have been, and will be, apologists who want to defend or explain away the embarrassing elements.’
‘Those are my passions and, not infrequently, their proponents and apologists will be my targets.’
‘Religious apologists have tended to argue from authority to justify their beliefs, often quoting from texts such as the Bible.’
‘I’m suggesting simply that they make their presence felt in ways that draw the distinction between themselves and the apologists.’
‘Her alibi, offered by her apologists, is that she was starved of affection - a euphemism for sex.’
‘Nor do the apologists for this failure carry conviction.’
‘Studies in English were produced either by apologists, sensationalists or conspiracy theorists.’
‘The apologists have argued that drugs were not involved in his death.’
‘But it was the nature of the attacks from the political party, its apologists and some journalists that interested me most.’
‘But isn’t an apologist for racism who uses racist arguments a racist?’
‘Only those such as government spokesmen and official apologists for the war would deny this.’
‘My job here is not to be an apologist, but technology can’t always save us from significant changes in human nature.’
‘The only kinds of writers excluded were supporters and apologists of totalitarianism.’
‘There is, of course, no need to imagine people who would make such claims: they were Nazis and their apologists.’
‘I do not intend to get into an argument with an apologist for mass murder such as yourself.’
‘To make a proper argument or ‘apology’ for Christianity, the apologist must speak in the same language as his hearer.’

Case closed gentlemen.

Brought to you by Matt.F.

Who totally doesn’t stink of smug self-satisfaction.

What do you guys think i smell like

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Time
 (Edited)

Possessed said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Matt.F said:

DuracellEnergizer, you obviously didn’t look at those websites too thoroughly or maybe you were just being ‘selective’ with what you chose to copy/paste. Under the concise definitions on the sites you linked there are examples of usage of the word apologist - shall we take a look?

“Her question reflected a conventional Republican gripe, namely that the State Department is a cooing dovecote, full of apologists for Abroad.”

“The most serious native challenge to liberalism, made by the slaveholding oligarchy of the Old South, was crushed on the battlefield, and, despite the efforts of an ever-dwindling number of apologists, morally anathematized.”

“Its condemnation of America in general and the war in Iraq in particular meant that it became an apologist for totalitarian regimes.”

“The lives of American and British troops should not have been risked to rescue these apologists for terror.”

“English youth have been so educated time out of mind, and we have hundreds of thousands of apologists and admirers of injustice, misery, and brutality, as perpetrated among children.”

And on the Oxford English Dictionary page, the most respected of all dictionary sites, there are 15 given examples of how you would use the word apologist. Every single one has a negative connotation. Every one. https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/apologist

Lets take a look!

‘The Soviet Union’s ideology had many adherents and apologists throughout the West.’
‘Obviously there have been, and will be, apologists who want to defend or explain away the embarrassing elements.’
‘Those are my passions and, not infrequently, their proponents and apologists will be my targets.’
‘Religious apologists have tended to argue from authority to justify their beliefs, often quoting from texts such as the Bible.’
‘I’m suggesting simply that they make their presence felt in ways that draw the distinction between themselves and the apologists.’
‘Her alibi, offered by her apologists, is that she was starved of affection - a euphemism for sex.’
‘Nor do the apologists for this failure carry conviction.’
‘Studies in English were produced either by apologists, sensationalists or conspiracy theorists.’
‘The apologists have argued that drugs were not involved in his death.’
‘But it was the nature of the attacks from the political party, its apologists and some journalists that interested me most.’
‘But isn’t an apologist for racism who uses racist arguments a racist?’
‘Only those such as government spokesmen and official apologists for the war would deny this.’
‘My job here is not to be an apologist, but technology can’t always save us from significant changes in human nature.’
‘The only kinds of writers excluded were supporters and apologists of totalitarianism.’
‘There is, of course, no need to imagine people who would make such claims: they were Nazis and their apologists.’
‘I do not intend to get into an argument with an apologist for mass murder such as yourself.’
‘To make a proper argument or ‘apology’ for Christianity, the apologist must speak in the same language as his hearer.’

Case closed gentlemen.

Brought to you by Matt.F.

Who totally doesn’t stink of smug self-satisfaction.

What do you guys think i smell like

Menthol cigarettes and singed kitty fur.

“I am a writer. Therefore, I am not sane.”

― Edgar Allan Poe

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No my cat only smokes full flavored cigarettes

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DuracellEnergizer, when a man is shown to be wrong it’s a litmus test of character.

To hold up your hands in admission, learn from it and move on, takes strength.

To be evasive and unaccepting, to make a counter attack. The mark of a small and petty man.

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moviefreakedmind said:

I’m guessing that the reason Disney used female leads for the first new trilogy and Rogue One is because they knew that the next decade of stand-alone films will revolve around male characters so they wanted to try and preemptively balance it out.

You’d think that somewhere these future plans are mapped out - there is a roadmap. Star Wars has been project managed, and there will be coordination across the many facets of the enterprise, with the timeline including the movies, the theme park, TV, video games, and more. Kathleen Kennedy, Bob Iger and all the top brass are privy to the plan.

However, the anecdotal things you hear from Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams make it sound like ‘anything goes’. The pitch for Rogue One, which sounds like it was made and accepted and put into production in a very quick turnaround. The changing release dates. These things point towards much more fluidity.

So at the time the decision was made to go with female leads, I really don’t know how far the roadmap extended (or if it existed at all), and whether that would have been in their thinking.

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DominicCobb said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

adywan said:

You only have to look around places like facebook to see how the RT audience scores have been manipulated. Campaigns were started before the film even come out to give it negative reviews. Not just star wars pages either. 99% of the time, RT was the place they aimed for. After the film came out it got even worse. The amount of posts i had to delete on my page where people had posted links to these type of campaigns was astounding. They even added getting people to upvote the prequels on RT to make TLJ score look even worse. Just check out the ROTS reviews and see just how many new ones have suddenly appeared since TLJ.

There’s a real dark side to the Star Wars fandom and it came out in force after TLJ. The amount of the so called reviews and the negative comments/ attacks on social media that point their hatred for it towards the fact that there is more diversity, more women taking the lead roles, Disney is pandering to the SJW’s etc is disgusting.

Woah ady, slow down with your rash argument.

At least his argument, while anecdotal, deals in reality.

True, you could learn something from him.

Bots and socks! It’s a conspiracy!

originaltrilogy.com Administrator

MTFBWY

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 (Edited)

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

adywan said:

You only have to look around places like facebook to see how the RT audience scores have been manipulated. Campaigns were started before the film even come out to give it negative reviews. Not just star wars pages either. 99% of the time, RT was the place they aimed for. After the film came out it got even worse. The amount of posts i had to delete on my page where people had posted links to these type of campaigns was astounding. They even added getting people to upvote the prequels on RT to make TLJ score look even worse. Just check out the ROTS reviews and see just how many new ones have suddenly appeared since TLJ.

There’s a real dark side to the Star Wars fandom and it came out in force after TLJ. The amount of the so called reviews and the negative comments/ attacks on social media that point their hatred for it towards the fact that there is more diversity, more women taking the lead roles, Disney is pandering to the SJW’s etc is disgusting.

Woah ady, slow down with your rash argument.

At least his argument, while anecdotal, deals in reality.

True, you could learn something from him.

Bots and socks! It’s a conspiracy!

Thanks for proving once again that you either missed my point completely or were purposefully ignoring it. Great conversation we’ve had here.

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Matt.F said:

DuracellEnergizer, when a man is shown to be wrong it’s a litmus test of character.

To hold up your hands in admission, learn from it and move on, takes strength.

To be evasive and unaccepting, to make a counter attack. The mark of a small and petty man.

Here’s what I accept: Example sentences, unless derived from historical documents/transcripts, are worthless.

Here’s what I accept: The original definition/usage of a word takes precedence over any later corruption. 99/100 may use “apologist” in a negative context, “myth” as a synonym for “lie”, and “schizophrenia” when they mean “dissociative identity disorder”, but they’re all still wrong.

Here’s what I accept: Since TLJ came out, you’ve been nothing short of a conceited, disrespectful blowhard towards everyone who’s dared exhibit an opinion different from yours — another “human-truth interface” in the mode of Imperialscum. I grew sick of him, and I’ve grown sick of you. I’m done interacting with you and your supercilious bullshit.

“I am a writer. Therefore, I am not sane.”

― Edgar Allan Poe

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Time
 (Edited)

DuracellEnergizer said:

Here’s what I accept: Since TLJ came out, you’ve been nothing short of a conceited, disrespectful blowhard towards everyone who’s dared exhibit an opinion different from yours — another “human-truth interface” in the mode of Imperialscum. I grew sick of him, and I’ve grown sick of you. I’m done interacting with you and your supercilious bullshit.

Don’t care much about the apologist thing (except to say that we must acknowledge current connotations, even if they haven’t always been there), but I totally agree with this^. Attitudes like kind he regularly exhibits are extremely obnoxious and unproductive.

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 (Edited)

DominicCobb said:

we must acknowledge current connotations, even if they haven’t always been there

I agree, if only to confront/negate them.

“I am a writer. Therefore, I am not sane.”

― Edgar Allan Poe