Sign In

The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS ** — Page 199

Author
Time

joefavs said:

I am reminded of a frequent point they used to make on the Cracked Podcast about suspension of disbelief. In The Dark Knight Rises, there’s a chase scene where Batman goes into a tunnel in broad daylight and exits at night.

Except that it was clearly dusk when he went in. You could tell the sun was setting. Everyone acts like it was bright and sunny when he went in, but it isn’t that much of a stretch to say that the sun finished setting when he was in the tunnel.

Not enough people read the EU.

Author
Time

joefavs said:

I am reminded of a frequent point they used to make on the Cracked Podcast about suspension of disbelief. In The Dark Knight Rises, there’s a chase scene where Batman goes into a tunnel in broad daylight and exits at night. This is absolutely a textbook hole in the movie, but when the movie came out almost everyone didn’t notice it until it was pointed out to them. The Cracked folks considered this a mark of effective movie-making rather than an egregious mistake, because audiences were swept up in the movie enough not to notice that flaw in the logic. That’s how I felt about all of these nitpicks about the in-universe rules of space travel in TLJ. I was engaged enough in the story that was in front of me that I was not giving any thought at all to whether or not it was 100% consistent with the last eight films (which, it’s worth noting, are not entirely consistent with each other either). I get that that’s not enough for everyone, but it’s enough for me.

Exactly. A perfect example is the T Rex cage in Jurassic park going from level with the road to a pit. But no one notices or cares, because it works. Well no one used to care, until this current CinemaSins-esque nitpick circle jerk “movie criticism” culture said that all “plot holes” are bad and lazy filmmaking. So apparently Steven fucking Spielberg is a lazy filmmaker.

No, he knew exactly what he was doing. There’s a phrase for this kinda thing: movie magic.

Author
Time

Frank your Majesty said:

Shopping Maul said:

Frank your Majesty said:

Why didn’t the Death Star just jump in a position where it could immediately fire at Yavin 4, instead of circling the planet for half an hour?

Because it was clearly tracking/following the Millennium Falcon. The film shows the Falcon, having come out of hyperspace, arriving at a big red planet and flying under (around) it to a little blue planet. It makes sense that the DS would follow suit and assess things from there.

Wouldn’t the tracking device show them where exactly the Falcon is in relation to the planet?

My own explanation is that there are certain hyperspace routes, which are safe to travel. Outside of these routes, you can only go under light speed. The DS could only enter Yavin’s orbit at this specific point.

The same thing applies to TLJ. Once the Resistance ships were fleeing, the nearest hyperspace access point was behind them, so the FO couldn’t simply jump ahead.

Those are great theories. In the case of the DS in ep.4 I think we’re overthinking it. It seems to me that the visuals were very deliberate in this instance, because George and co. needed that particular sense of tension for the film’s climax - hence the scenes showing the Falcon approaching Yavin and then going beyond to the moon (I think the idea of Yavin itself being a gas giant was deliberate too ie you probably can’t blow up a gas giant). Then we see the DS approaching Yavin and Tarkin gets the “moon with the base is on the far side” call. The DS has clearly followed the Falcon’s path precisely. It makes sense for the DS to come out of hyperspace right where the Falcon did and follow from there. Since Han had already established that hyperspace jumps were a precise business, it makes sense that you wouldn’t risk simply warping to the end point of a tracking exercise (the DS might collide with a planet or accidentally occupy the same space as the Yavin moon). It makes more sense to come out of warp at the edge of the system (where the Falcon did) and mark their progress from there.

By the way I had no problem with the space-chase in TLJ at all. I thought it was a really cool idea and didn’t entertain the notion of FO ships warping ahead and cutting them off. That actually sounds too complicated to me (can ships warp such tiny distances? I guess I’m agreeing with your ‘hyperspace access points’ theory in a way) and I love the sadism of Hux deciding to simply flow with it all and keep the pressure up.

In fact whatever my niggling beefs with this movie, the idea of starting the film immediately after its predecessor, and having that chase be the whole body of the movie is genius as far as I’m concerned. We’re so used to gaps of 1 to 10 years between these films, so this was a real breath of fresh air.

Author
Time

joefavs said:

I am reminded of a frequent point they used to make on the Cracked Podcast about suspension of disbelief. In The Dark Knight Rises, there’s a chase scene where Batman goes into a tunnel in broad daylight and exits at night. This is absolutely a textbook hole in the movie, but when the movie came out almost everyone didn’t notice it until it was pointed out to them. The Cracked folks considered this a mark of effective movie-making rather than an egregious mistake, because audiences were swept up in the movie enough not to notice that flaw in the logic. That’s how I felt about all of these nitpicks about the in-universe rules of space travel in TLJ. I was engaged enough in the story that was in front of me that I was not giving any thought at all to whether or not it was 100% consistent with the last eight films (which, it’s worth noting, are not entirely consistent with each other either). I get that that’s not enough for everyone, but it’s enough for me.

This is very true. As I said, I think the audience wasn’t supposed to notice. When the audience isn’t sufficiently engaged so that they do notice such oddities, I blame those who made the film; as is suggested by your description of the Cracked folks’s view also. In general, a filmmaker should avoid these types of things. If you have too many, that can cause an audience to disengage. My main criticisms of the movie have to do with the overall story and characters. I am very forgiving of incongruities in physics or night-to-day kind of continuity. Holdo’s hyperspeed unprecedented ramming, the bombers, lasers arcing, even the new Force powers are good by me. What really gets to me is not understanding characters’ actions/motivations. That strikes me as a fault of the storytelling. If a movie works for you despite these issues, that is great.

The blue elephant in the room.

Author
Time

The DS could probably blow up Yavin, but it would be like lighting off the galaxy’s biggest cherry bomb, and outrunning the shockwave would be a problem. The sequel to 2001 A Space Odyssey shows what happens when those pesky alien monoliths light a match to Jupiter.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

For those of you who are questioning Luke’s actions- he’s suffering from severe depression. Depression can really fuck with you and speaking from experience you do stuff that’s not normal for you.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

Author
Time

lovelikewinter said:

For those of you who are questioning Luke’s actions- he’s suffering from severe depression. Depression can really fuck with you and speaking from experience you do stuff that’s not normal for you.

Exactly!

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Edit:

Oops, I almost did it again, but I don’t want to get into another pointless debate, so I’m off again.

Author
Time

With regards to the DS being able to use a hyperdrive. I am stunned that people think it wouldn’t. Space is really, really big…I mean, really big. For the DS to not be able to fly at lightspeed would render it completely useless for striking fear into the galaxy.

Author
Time

I assume the Death Star was following a “trail” left by the Millennium Falcon, instead of just tracking them, making them have to take the exact same route.

Another thing is that the Millenium Falcon also came out of hyperspace on the other side of the planet, which could lead one to believe that it was the only way possible to get to the system.

Author
Time

Creox said:

With regards to the DS being able to use a hyperdrive. I am stunned that people think it wouldn’t. Space is really, really big…I mean, really big. For the DS to not be able to fly at lightspeed would render it completely useless for striking fear into the galaxy.

+1

Author
Time

Creox said:

With regards to the DS being able to use a hyperdrive. I am stunned that people think it wouldn’t. Space is really, really big…I mean, really big. For the DS to not be able to fly at lightspeed would render it completely useless for striking fear into the galaxy.

Of course it realisticly needs a hyperdrive, but I’m not sure if that was the original intent. In the older Superman comics stuff was always just drifting from Krypton to earth with no propulsion at all more less a hyperdrive. Writers didn’t always think that stuff through, and Lucas probably didn’t either.

Author
Time

Michael Ward said:

Creox said:

With regards to the DS being able to use a hyperdrive. I am stunned that people think it wouldn’t. Space is really, really big…I mean, really big. For the DS to not be able to fly at lightspeed would render it completely useless for striking fear into the galaxy.

Of course it realisticly needs a hyperdrive, but I’m not sure if that was the original intent. In the older Superman comics stuff was always just drifting from Krypton to earth with no propulsion at all more less a hyperdrive. Writers didn’t always think that stuff through, and Lucas probably didn’t either.

Indeed, the Falcon famously went from the Anoat system to Bespin sans hyperdrive, so clearly spacial distances are not a huge concern in the SW universe (I bet there’s a debate about that little trip somewhere in these forums!)…

Author
Time

Michael Ward said:

Creox said:

With regards to the DS being able to use a hyperdrive. I am stunned that people think it wouldn’t. Space is really, really big…I mean, really big. For the DS to not be able to fly at lightspeed would render it completely useless for striking fear into the galaxy.

Of course it realisticly needs a hyperdrive, but I’m not sure if that was the original intent. In the older Superman comics stuff was always just drifting from Krypton to earth with no propulsion at all more less a hyperdrive. Writers didn’t always think that stuff through, and Lucas probably didn’t either.

The Death Star is treated the same way a villain in an action movie is treated - realistically they need to be running at full speed to catch up with our fleeing protagonist, but somehow they manage to catch up while walking at a slow, menacing pace.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Workprint V2 Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Yeah it’s not made with that kind of logic in mind. Like the way the heroes actively waste time and risk their lives shooting at TIE Fighters instead of just jumping to hyperspace.

Also - wasn’t it the Noad System or is that a fresh idea for the mis-heard stuff thread?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

It’s absolutely the Anoat system, it’s since shown up in lots of books and games.

Anyway, I always just assumed the Death Star had a hyperdrive and it never even occurred to me to question it. Very much the same sort of thing as that big debate over whether Luke was really choking the Gamorrean guards a few weeks ago. Though I think my idea of the Death Star’s hyperspace capabilities likely originates with the Decipher CCG, in which the Death Star was capable of hyperspace travel but had the lowest possible speed in the game.

Author
Time

Mocata said:

Yeah it’s not made with that kind of logic in mind. Like they way the heroes actively waste time and risk their lives shooting at TIE Fighters instead of just jumping to hyperspace.

Also - wasn’t it the Noad System or is that a fresh idea for the mis-heard stuff thread?

Anoat’s not a system, he’s a man.

Wait.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Workprint V2 Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

Author
Time

NeverarGreat said:

Mocata said:

Yeah it’s not made with that kind of logic in mind. Like they way the heroes actively waste time and risk their lives shooting at TIE Fighters instead of just jumping to hyperspace.

Also - wasn’t it the Noad System or is that a fresh idea for the mis-heard stuff thread?

Anoat’s not a system, he’s a man.

Wait.

Anoat’s more machine than man now…

Wait.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Mocata said:

Yeah it’s not made with that kind of logic in mind. Like they way the heroes actively waste time and risk their lives shooting at TIE Fighters instead of just jumping to hyperspace.

Also - wasn’t it the Noad System or is that a fresh idea for the mis-heard stuff thread?

Han said when they were leaving Tatooine hyperspace jump calculations take time. The Death Star might have even jumped since they were captured,(or traveled some distance from the Alderaan system) so extra time to figure out where they are and Yavin is probably not a destination one has preset coordinates for.

I presume Navi 'puters are faster and more precise three decades later.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Shopping Maul said:

Michael Ward said:

Creox said:

With regards to the DS being able to use a hyperdrive. I am stunned that people think it wouldn’t. Space is really, really big…I mean, really big. For the DS to not be able to fly at lightspeed would render it completely useless for striking fear into the galaxy.

Of course it realisticly needs a hyperdrive, but I’m not sure if that was the original intent. In the older Superman comics stuff was always just drifting from Krypton to earth with no propulsion at all more less a hyperdrive. Writers didn’t always think that stuff through, and Lucas probably didn’t either.

Indeed, the Falcon famously went from the Anoat system to Bespin sans hyperdrive, so clearly spacial distances are not a huge concern in the SW universe (I bet there’s a debate about that little trip somewhere in these forums!)…

I get that and agree but as to the basic question of whether it uses a hyperdrive or not…of course it does otherwise it would never get anywhere it’s needed. Hell, the galaxy would implode naturally by the time they could get to another target.

Author
Time

Creox said:

Shopping Maul said:

Michael Ward said:

Creox said:

With regards to the DS being able to use a hyperdrive. I am stunned that people think it wouldn’t. Space is really, really big…I mean, really big. For the DS to not be able to fly at lightspeed would render it completely useless for striking fear into the galaxy.

Of course it realisticly needs a hyperdrive, but I’m not sure if that was the original intent. In the older Superman comics stuff was always just drifting from Krypton to earth with no propulsion at all more less a hyperdrive. Writers didn’t always think that stuff through, and Lucas probably didn’t either.

Indeed, the Falcon famously went from the Anoat system to Bespin sans hyperdrive, so clearly spacial distances are not a huge concern in the SW universe (I bet there’s a debate about that little trip somewhere in these forums!)…

I get that and agree but as to the basic question of whether it uses a hyperdrive or not…of course it does otherwise it would never get anywhere it’s needed. Hell, the galaxy would implode naturally by the time they could get to another target.

Yeah, I mean, when we consider how long it takes to get in sight of the fourth moon…

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

joefavs said:

I am reminded of a frequent point they used to make on the Cracked Podcast about suspension of disbelief. In The Dark Knight Rises, there’s a chase scene where Batman goes into a tunnel in broad daylight and exits at night. This is absolutely a textbook hole in the movie, but when the movie came out almost everyone didn’t notice it until it was pointed out to them. The Cracked folks considered this a mark of effective movie-making rather than an egregious mistake, because audiences were swept up in the movie enough not to notice that flaw in the logic. That’s how I felt about all of these nitpicks about the in-universe rules of space travel in TLJ. I was engaged enough in the story that was in front of me that I was not giving any thought at all to whether or not it was 100% consistent with the last eight films (which, it’s worth noting, are not entirely consistent with each other either). I get that that’s not enough for everyone, but it’s enough for me.

Exactly. A perfect example is the T Rex cage in Jurassic park going from level with the road to a pit. But no one notices or cares, because it works. Well no one used to care, until this current CinemaSins-esque nitpick circle jerk “movie criticism” culture said that all “plot holes” are bad and lazy filmmaking. So apparently Steven fucking Spielberg is a lazy filmmaker.

Holy cow I never noticed that!! I just watched it with my kids last week too. Crazy what gets by you!

Author
Time

MusicallyInspired said:

DominicCobb said:

joefavs said:

I am reminded of a frequent point they used to make on the Cracked Podcast about suspension of disbelief. In The Dark Knight Rises, there’s a chase scene where Batman goes into a tunnel in broad daylight and exits at night. This is absolutely a textbook hole in the movie, but when the movie came out almost everyone didn’t notice it until it was pointed out to them. The Cracked folks considered this a mark of effective movie-making rather than an egregious mistake, because audiences were swept up in the movie enough not to notice that flaw in the logic. That’s how I felt about all of these nitpicks about the in-universe rules of space travel in TLJ. I was engaged enough in the story that was in front of me that I was not giving any thought at all to whether or not it was 100% consistent with the last eight films (which, it’s worth noting, are not entirely consistent with each other either). I get that that’s not enough for everyone, but it’s enough for me.

Exactly. A perfect example is the T Rex cage in Jurassic park going from level with the road to a pit. But no one notices or cares, because it works. Well no one used to care, until this current CinemaSins-esque nitpick circle jerk “movie criticism” culture said that all “plot holes” are bad and lazy filmmaking. So apparently Steven fucking Spielberg is a lazy filmmaker.

Holy cow I never noticed that!! I just watched it with my kids last week too. Crazy what gets by you!

isn’t it a different side of the street or something? I know what you are talking about and it often bugged me, but i thought i reviewed it in detail once and it actually made sense… (now i need to pull out the DVD and check again)

Author
Time

DominicCobb said:

Creox said:

Shopping Maul said:

Michael Ward said:

Creox said:

With regards to the DS being able to use a hyperdrive. I am stunned that people think it wouldn’t. Space is really, really big…I mean, really big. For the DS to not be able to fly at lightspeed would render it completely useless for striking fear into the galaxy.

Of course it realisticly needs a hyperdrive, but I’m not sure if that was the original intent. In the older Superman comics stuff was always just drifting from Krypton to earth with no propulsion at all more less a hyperdrive. Writers didn’t always think that stuff through, and Lucas probably didn’t either.

Indeed, the Falcon famously went from the Anoat system to Bespin sans hyperdrive, so clearly spacial distances are not a huge concern in the SW universe (I bet there’s a debate about that little trip somewhere in these forums!)…

I get that and agree but as to the basic question of whether it uses a hyperdrive or not…of course it does otherwise it would never get anywhere it’s needed. Hell, the galaxy would implode naturally by the time they could get to another target.

Yeah, I mean, when we consider how long it takes to get in sight of the fourth moon…

Yeah, I …uhh…what? 😃