The Kenobi Movie Show (Spoilers) — Page 52

I’ve been burnt out on live-action fiction (especially new tv fiction) since college, so I mostly stick to documentaries. Things like Dark Side of the Ring, the less-sensationalized true crime stuff on Netflix, and YouTube features on music/random topics (I recommend Down the Rabbit Hole and Atrocity Guide) are my favorites.

I don’t think I’m the target audience, but Kenobi as it aired was a 75/100 to me. Fine, but I’d never seek it out again. A fan edit could bring it to an 85 or an 87, but I wouldn’t give it more.

I’ve decided this series didn’t generate enough interest for me to check it out.

fmalover said:

I’ve decided this series didn’t generate enough interest for me to check it out.

It’s supposedly garnering soo much praise I have lost hope in the fan base even caring about SW being presented with care and quality…which OF COURSE it should. People want a “season 2” from this and not because they want to see a better attempt…but because they want MORE of what we got.

For some reason I love this IP soo much that I actually still hold out hope for Andor to be very good, and maybe I still hold out hope for Filoni live action…not perfect but better than what we’ve had for the last two SW series. To me, TBOBF was extremely mediocre in writing and execution…but Kenobi went above and beyond having common sense. Faverou is now a bit iffy to me because he wrote a majority of TBOBF. Does anyone remember Mandalorian? Haha…wow that was good and fun.

Fan_edit_fan said:

fmalover said:

I’ve decided this series didn’t generate enough interest for me to check it out.

People want a “season 2” from this and not because they want to see a better attempt…but because they want MORE of what we got.

The shows truly awful… BUT I’m actually okay with a Season 2. The more material we get, the more there is a chance of salvaging a decent 2h fanedit from it. Other than Kenobi sticking around on Tatoonie in Ep1, the rest can be thrown in the bin. If next season has him training with Qui-Gon while JUST on Tatoonie, then there might be a way to just remove Ep2-6. Hell it may even be possible to just start the show wherever Season 2 starts.

After how awful Season 1 was, hopefully Joby Harold never touches the property again and we get some actual competent writers helming Season 2. We’ll have to wait and see… though my expectations for anything good from Disney Star Wars has never been lower.

I recently read an article on cracked.com about this series, in which the author states that Disney is producing so much SW content we’ve grown desensitised, which is a bad thing because the SW franchise is supposed to feel magical.

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

Plus, trauma, shock and disgust. That much was evident from his reaction to Vader’s taunts. He wasn’t ready to see or hear that, even if it brought closure.

With the Jedi being inspired by samurais, I’m also sure he knew it would be more humiliating for Vader to crawl back to his shuttle in that state, rather than being killed in combat by his former master.

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

So leaving Vader alive to murder millions of people is honourable and chivalrous? The situation with Dooku is not comparable, because Anakin had the option of letting Dooku stand trial. Obi-Wan on the other hand has to choose between two evils, where letting Vader live is clearly the worse option. Also, Yoda in ROTS sends Obi-Wan to kill Anakin, and Obi-Wan tells Luke, that if he will not kill Vader, the Emperor has already won.

FrederikOlsen said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

Plus, trauma, shock and disgust. That much was evident from his reaction to Vader’s taunts. He wasn’t ready to see or hear that, even if it brought closure.

With the Jedi being inspired by samurais, I’m also sure he knew it would be more humiliating for Vader to crawl back to his shuttle in that state, rather than being killed in combat by his former master.

Mmm, what to do? Kill this mass murdering psychopath, who will undoubtedly continue to murder and maim, snapping the necks of innocent men, women, and children? Or humiliate the hell out of him by letting him crawl back to his shuttle? Easy choice really:

“Ze humiliation will be unbearable!”

DrDre said:

FrederikOlsen said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

Plus, trauma, shock and disgust. That much was evident from his reaction to Vader’s taunts. He wasn’t ready to see or hear that, even if it brought closure.

With the Jedi being inspired by samurais, I’m also sure he knew it would be more humiliating for Vader to crawl back to his shuttle in that state, rather than being killed in combat by his former master.

Mmm, what to do? Kill this mass murdering psychopath, who will undoubtedly continue to murder and maim, snapping the necks of innocent men, women, and children? Or humiliate the hell out of him by letting him crawl back to his shuttle? Easy choice really:

“Ze humiliation will be unbearable!”

It’s no different than every single James Bond villain informing their nemesis of their grand plan, only to leave him alive so he can make his escape and foil it. Or elderly Obi-Wan somehow thinking that lying through his teeth to manipulate Luke will make him want to become a Jedi and confront the Emperor. Even if Obi-Wan’s story about Vader killing Anakin only became a lie retroactively, people have been clutching at an explanation for decades.

If you’re expecting writing better than THAT from Star Wars, you were probably going to be disappointed no matter what Obi-Wan Kenobi did. The bad guys are very bad, and they wear evil, black robes and threatening helmets to denote that, and the good guys are very good. It’s never been a particularly well-written franchise, IMO. And I say that as someone who loves the OT dearly, but the visual effects, the music and the acting have all stuck with me more than the scripts.

FrederikOlsen said:

DrDre said:

FrederikOlsen said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

Plus, trauma, shock and disgust. That much was evident from his reaction to Vader’s taunts. He wasn’t ready to see or hear that, even if it brought closure.

With the Jedi being inspired by samurais, I’m also sure he knew it would be more humiliating for Vader to crawl back to his shuttle in that state, rather than being killed in combat by his former master.

Mmm, what to do? Kill this mass murdering psychopath, who will undoubtedly continue to murder and maim, snapping the necks of innocent men, women, and children? Or humiliate the hell out of him by letting him crawl back to his shuttle? Easy choice really:

“Ze humiliation will be unbearable!”

It’s no different than every single James Bond villain informing their nemesis of their grand plan, only to leave him alive so he can make his escape and foil it. Or elderly Obi-Wan somehow thinking that lying through his teeth to manipulate Luke will make him want to become a Jedi and confront the Emperor. Even if Obi-Wan’s story about Vader killing Anakin only became a lie retroactively, people have been clutching at an explanation for decades.

If you’re expecting writing better than THAT from Star Wars, you were probably going to be disappointed no matter what Obi-Wan Kenobi did. The bad guys are very bad, and they wear evil, black robes and threatening helmets to denote that, and the good guys are very good. It’s never been a particularly well-written franchise, IMO. And I say that as someone who loves the OT dearly, but the visual effects, the music and the acting have all stuck with me more than the scripts.

To me that’s a straw man just like people said “Star Wars dialogue has always been bad” after the release of the PT. This show has set a new low for lapses in logic, and weak and lazy writing, and no this has not always been the case for the franchise.

It’s the same with Reva’ reappearance on Tatooine. People will say, that many Star Wars characters have come back from the dead. Anakin and Maul survived, why can’t Reva? Which to me is a really baffling argument. The point is not, that she survived (although there is little tension in a franchise, where death is treated like a running gag). The point is that Reva being stabbed has next to no consequences. Anakin had to be rescued and put in a suit to survive. Maul went mad and it took years to get his mojo back. Reva gets stabbed in the stomach, which if not lethal, should at the very least be a debilitating wound, but no she immediately jumps up and flies of to Tatooine, and other than a moment where she appears to be a little sensitive to the touch, she’s fine. It’s just patently ridiculous. Star Wars used to have stakes. Now it’s just spinning its wheels with characters who used to kill underlings for coming out of lightspeed to early letting enemies live for no other reason than, that the writers want them around for the next episode.

DrDre said:

FrederikOlsen said:

DrDre said:

FrederikOlsen said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

Plus, trauma, shock and disgust. That much was evident from his reaction to Vader’s taunts. He wasn’t ready to see or hear that, even if it brought closure.

With the Jedi being inspired by samurais, I’m also sure he knew it would be more humiliating for Vader to crawl back to his shuttle in that state, rather than being killed in combat by his former master.

Mmm, what to do? Kill this mass murdering psychopath, who will undoubtedly continue to murder and maim, snapping the necks of innocent men, women, and children? Or humiliate the hell out of him by letting him crawl back to his shuttle? Easy choice really:

“Ze humiliation will be unbearable!”

It’s no different than every single James Bond villain informing their nemesis of their grand plan, only to leave him alive so he can make his escape and foil it. Or elderly Obi-Wan somehow thinking that lying through his teeth to manipulate Luke will make him want to become a Jedi and confront the Emperor. Even if Obi-Wan’s story about Vader killing Anakin only became a lie retroactively, people have been clutching at an explanation for decades.

If you’re expecting writing better than THAT from Star Wars, you were probably going to be disappointed no matter what Obi-Wan Kenobi did. The bad guys are very bad, and they wear evil, black robes and threatening helmets to denote that, and the good guys are very good. It’s never been a particularly well-written franchise, IMO. And I say that as someone who loves the OT dearly, but the visual effects, the music and the acting have all stuck with me more than the scripts.

To me that’s a straw man just like people said “Star Wars dialogue has always been bad” after the release of the PT. This show has set a new low for lapses in logic, and weak and lazy writing, and no this has not always been the case for the franchise.

It’s the same with Reva’ reappearance on Tatooine. People will say, that many Star Wars characters have come back from the dead. Anakin and Maul survived, why can’t Reva? Which to me is a really baffling argument. The point is not, that she survived (although there is little tension in a franchise, where death is treated like a running gag). The point is that Reva being stabbed has next to no consequences. Anakin had to be rescued and put in a suit to survive. Maul went mad and it took years to get his mojo back. Reva gets stabbed in the stomach, which if not lethal, should at the very least be a debilitating wound, but no she jumps up and flies of to Tatooine, and other than a moment where she appears to be a little sensitive to the touch, she’s fine. It’s just patently ridiculous. Star Wars used to have stakes. Now it’s just spinning its wheels.

I will concede that Reva’s swift recovery was dumb. There may be a sound canonical reason for the Grand Inquisitor’s survival, but surviving a lightsaber to the stomach is nuts. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, Qui-Gon must have been insanely unlucky, cause apparently, no one dies from that. I would probably have accepted it if she had been in more obvious pain (Kyle Ren’s bowcaster wound springs to mind), but she even manages to make a run for Luke!

I’m fine with Obi-Wan leaving Vader alive because of shock, trauma or whatever, but yeah, Reva should either have died at the hands of Vader, or they should have handled her survival very differently.

DrDre said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

So leaving Vader alive to murder millions of people is honourable and chivalrous? The situation with Dooku is not comparable, because Anakin had the option of letting Dooku stand trial. Obi-Wan on the other hand has to choose between two evils, where letting Vader live is clearly the worse option. Also, Yoda in ROTS sends Obi-Wan to kill Anakin, and Obi-Wan tells Luke, that if he will not kill Vader, the Emperor has already won.

Leaving Vader alive results in Palpatine’s defeat and the fall of the Empire (at least until Palapatine returned “somehow” lol).

“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.” to bring a bit of Tolkien into the Star Wars chat!

Anyway, I stand by my point that a Jedi executing a fallen foe would be completely out of character with the compassion and chivalry that is their code.

Matt.F said:

DrDre said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

So leaving Vader alive to murder millions of people is honourable and chivalrous? The situation with Dooku is not comparable, because Anakin had the option of letting Dooku stand trial. Obi-Wan on the other hand has to choose between two evils, where letting Vader live is clearly the worse option. Also, Yoda in ROTS sends Obi-Wan to kill Anakin, and Obi-Wan tells Luke, that if he will not kill Vader, the Emperor has already won.

Leaving Vader alive results in Palpatine’s defeat and the fall of the Empire (at least until Palapatine returned “somehow” lol).

“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.” to bring a bit of Tolkien into the Star Wars chat!

Anyway, I stand by my point that a Jedi executing a fallen foe would be completely out of character with the compassion and chivalry that is their code.

Fair enough, but then follow through on that, and don’t have Obi-Wan say, that either he or Vader will die today. That line is on the writers of the show. If Obi-Wan knows, that he cannot bring Vader to justice, and he won’t kill him either, just have him say, he will try to incapacitate Vader or stall him for as long as he can.

Anyway, I stand by my point that a Jedi executing a fallen foe would be completely out of character with the compassion and chivalry that is their code.

Yeah, it’s real chivalrous to get people’s kids to commit murder because you’re just too “compassionate” to carry through with it. Mace Windu was about to split Palpatine in two while he was mutilated on the floor yelling “No don’t!”. Obi-Wan cut Maul in half like a savage…and shot Greivous soo many times he exploded. There’s no “code” in leaving Vader alive in the show, it’s just irresponsible writing.

Fan_edit_fan said:

Anyway, I stand by my point that a Jedi executing a fallen foe would be completely out of character with the compassion and chivalry that is their code.

Yeah, it’s real chivalrous to get people’s kids to commit murder because you’re just too “compassionate” to carry through with it. Mace Windu was about to split Palpatine in two while he was mutilated on the floor yelling “No don’t!”. Obi-Wan cut Maul in half like a savage…and shot Greivous soo many times he exploded. There’s no “code” in leaving Vader alive in the show, it’s just irresponsible writing.

Yes, of course they kill their opponents in combat (Maul and Greivous). You’ll also remember that Mace had gone to arrest Palpatine - not execute him - before the situation suddenly went nuclear.

Matt.F said:

Fan_edit_fan said:

Anyway, I stand by my point that a Jedi executing a fallen foe would be completely out of character with the compassion and chivalry that is their code.

Yeah, it’s real chivalrous to get people’s kids to commit murder because you’re just too “compassionate” to carry through with it. Mace Windu was about to split Palpatine in two while he was mutilated on the floor yelling “No don’t!”. Obi-Wan cut Maul in half like a savage…and shot Greivous soo many times he exploded. There’s no “code” in leaving Vader alive in the show, it’s just irresponsible writing.

Yes, of course they kill their opponents in combat (Maul and Greivous). You’ll also remember that Mace had gone to arrest Palpatine - not execute him - before the situation suddenly went nuclear.

How does that change anything I stated? Obi-Wan and Vader were opposing combatants. Mace was trying to arrest with the intent to kill if necessary, you just can’t claim Jedi won’t finish off opponents because of their “chivalrous code”. There’s not even any evidence for it.

Fan_edit_fan said:

Matt.F said:

Fan_edit_fan said:

Anyway, I stand by my point that a Jedi executing a fallen foe would be completely out of character with the compassion and chivalry that is their code.

Yeah, it’s real chivalrous to get people’s kids to commit murder because you’re just too “compassionate” to carry through with it. Mace Windu was about to split Palpatine in two while he was mutilated on the floor yelling “No don’t!”. Obi-Wan cut Maul in half like a savage…and shot Greivous soo many times he exploded. There’s no “code” in leaving Vader alive in the show, it’s just irresponsible writing.

Yes, of course they kill their opponents in combat (Maul and Greivous). You’ll also remember that Mace had gone to arrest Palpatine - not execute him - before the situation suddenly went nuclear.

How does that change anything I stated? Obi-Wan and Vader were opposing combatants. Mace was trying to arrest with the intent to kill if necessary, you just can’t claim Jedi won’t finish off opponents because of their “chivalrous code”. There’s not even any evidence for it.

The whole saga is based around Anakin executing a fallen opponent and turning to the Dark Side, and Luke sparing a fallen opponent and becoming a true Jedi.

Even in this particular TV show we have this rather memorable line;

“Do you know the key to hunting a Jedi, friend? It is patience. Jedi cannot help what they are. Their compassion leaves a trail.”

Matt.F said:

Fan_edit_fan said:

Matt.F said:

Fan_edit_fan said:

Anyway, I stand by my point that a Jedi executing a fallen foe would be completely out of character with the compassion and chivalry that is their code.

Yeah, it’s real chivalrous to get people’s kids to commit murder because you’re just too “compassionate” to carry through with it. Mace Windu was about to split Palpatine in two while he was mutilated on the floor yelling “No don’t!”. Obi-Wan cut Maul in half like a savage…and shot Greivous soo many times he exploded. There’s no “code” in leaving Vader alive in the show, it’s just irresponsible writing.

Yes, of course they kill their opponents in combat (Maul and Greivous). You’ll also remember that Mace had gone to arrest Palpatine - not execute him - before the situation suddenly went nuclear.

How does that change anything I stated? Obi-Wan and Vader were opposing combatants. Mace was trying to arrest with the intent to kill if necessary, you just can’t claim Jedi won’t finish off opponents because of their “chivalrous code”. There’s not even any evidence for it.

The whole saga is based around Anakin executing a fallen opponent and turning to the Dark Side, and Luke sparing a fallen opponent and becoming a true Jedi.

Even in this particular TV show we have this rather memorable line;

“Do you know the key to hunting a Jedi, friend? It is patience. Jedi cannot help what they are. Their compassion leaves a trail.”

Well I guess there’s no chance of getting you to understand your own contradiction.

FrederikOlsen said:

DrDre said:

FrederikOlsen said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

Plus, trauma, shock and disgust. That much was evident from his reaction to Vader’s taunts. He wasn’t ready to see or hear that, even if it brought closure.

With the Jedi being inspired by samurais, I’m also sure he knew it would be more humiliating for Vader to crawl back to his shuttle in that state, rather than being killed in combat by his former master.

Mmm, what to do? Kill this mass murdering psychopath, who will undoubtedly continue to murder and maim, snapping the necks of innocent men, women, and children? Or humiliate the hell out of him by letting him crawl back to his shuttle? Easy choice really:

“Ze humiliation will be unbearable!”

It’s no different than every single James Bond villain informing their nemesis of their grand plan, only to leave him alive so he can make his escape and foil it. Or elderly Obi-Wan somehow thinking that lying through his teeth to manipulate Luke will make him want to become a Jedi and confront the Emperor. Even if Obi-Wan’s story about Vader killing Anakin only became a lie retroactively, people have been clutching at an explanation for decades.

If you’re expecting writing better than THAT from Star Wars, you were probably going to be disappointed no matter what Obi-Wan Kenobi did. The bad guys are very bad, and they wear evil, black robes and threatening helmets to denote that, and the good guys are very good. It’s never been a particularly well-written franchise, IMO. And I say that as someone who loves the OT dearly, but the visual effects, the music and the acting have all stuck with me more than the scripts.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Why are you even here?

Nobody is “clutching at an explanation,” it’s obvious that Obi Wan feels guilty, he doesn’t feel Luke is ready for the knowledge, and what he says is true in a sense, Vader is a different persona than Anakin. It’s actually great writing, like the rest of the original trilogy.

Obvious evil isn’t poor writing either, it’s a stylistic or genre choice.

There were bits of the show I enjoyed. And large swaths that I very much did not. Overall I’d rate this show pretty low.

Star Wars is better when The Force is subtle and mysterious. It becomes lame very quickly when it is just another over-the-top comic book super power.