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The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 9

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ZkinandBonez said:

Jay said:

hydrospanner said:

It appeared that Kylo sensed something wrong with him during and after the battle? He maybe did some quick intel on that trooper upon their return?

I don’t get this either. Ren obviously senses something is off with this dude. Wouldn’t someone like Ren immediately place him in custody and have him interrogated?

Didn’t Phasma order Finn to go and get re-evaluated or something? Or, maybe it was just about his blaster? I can’t remember.

It was to submit his blaster for inspection, but I got the feeling that was more just standard post-battle protocol. I guess a good question would be why he was put in charge of escorting Poe away if Ren sensed something off about him and Phasma could see he was visibly shaken.

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Alderaan said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Star Wars is full of incompetent Stormtroopers though. I mean the Death Star was the most important piece of tech in the entire galaxy, and the troopers aboard it couldn’t kill a farmer, a diplomat and two smugglers. An old man in a robe also managed to walk around completely unnoticed by security.

Yeah but now we’re talking about two different things. Bad guys having bad aim when they shoot at good guys is standard. Having a military think and act like they are on the set of Spaceballs is just something else entirely.

I was more questioning why those trooper were posted on the Death Star to begin with. Not exactly the best guys to guard the biggest, most important weapon in the possession of the Empire. It was plot convenience back then, and I think it’s just the same today that Finn was in the right place at the wrong time. Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like we’re praising one film, and condemning another for essentially doing the same things. TFA kind of makes bad habit of it, but they’re still kind of the same things.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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hydrospanner said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Jay said:

hydrospanner said:

It appeared that Kylo sensed something wrong with him during and after the battle? He maybe did some quick intel on that trooper upon their return?

I don’t get this either. Ren obviously senses something is off with this dude. Wouldn’t someone like Ren immediately place him in custody and have him interrogated?

Didn’t Phasma order Finn to go and get re-evaluated or something? Or, maybe it was just about his blaster? I can’t remember.

It was to submit his blaster for inspection, but I got the feeling that was more just standard post-battle protocol. I guess a good question would be why he was put in charge of escorting Poe away if Ren sensed something off about him and Phasma could see he was visibly shaken.

Was he told to escort Poe? I thought that was just something he did without authorization to help him escape?

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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Jay said:

hydrospanner said:

It appeared that Kylo sensed something wrong with him during and after the battle? He maybe did some quick intel on that trooper upon their return?

I don’t get this either. Ren obviously senses something is off with this dude. Wouldn’t someone like Ren immediately place him in custody and have him interrogated?

SilverWook said:

Finn’s ability with a lightsaber also might be a massive hint about something. 😉

This is a spoiler-laden thread. You’re free to expound upon your theories 😃

I don’t think every potential Jedi is born with Force abilities fully “switched on”. Ren is sensing something from Finn, but he’s too pissed off and distracted by not getting the map to really ponder if it’s more than fear.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

Jay said:

hydrospanner said:

It appeared that Kylo sensed something wrong with him during and after the battle? He maybe did some quick intel on that trooper upon their return?

I don’t get this either. Ren obviously senses something is off with this dude. Wouldn’t someone like Ren immediately place him in custody and have him interrogated?

SilverWook said:

Finn’s ability with a lightsaber also might be a massive hint about something. 😉

This is a spoiler-laden thread. You’re free to expound upon your theories 😃

I don’t think every potential Jedi is born with Force abilities fully “switched on”. Ren is sensing something from Finn, but he’s too pissed off and distracted by not getting the map to really ponder if it’s more than fear.

Depends on what you mean by him “sensing” something. Finn was kind of staring at him. He didn’t necessarily sense anything.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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ZkinandBonez said:

hydrospanner said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Jay said:

hydrospanner said:

It appeared that Kylo sensed something wrong with him during and after the battle? He maybe did some quick intel on that trooper upon their return?

I don’t get this either. Ren obviously senses something is off with this dude. Wouldn’t someone like Ren immediately place him in custody and have him interrogated?

Didn’t Phasma order Finn to go and get re-evaluated or something? Or, maybe it was just about his blaster? I can’t remember.

It was to submit his blaster for inspection, but I got the feeling that was more just standard post-battle protocol. I guess a good question would be why he was put in charge of escorting Poe away if Ren sensed something off about him and Phasma could see he was visibly shaken.

Was he told to escort Poe? I thought that was just something he did without authorization to help him escape?

Could have been, I don’t recall exactly how that went down. The other troopers must have been just has incompetent as some are complaining about Finn appearing in a supposed elite unit if they just let Finn grab the prisoner they are guarding and stroll off without a direct order from a superior officer.

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ZkinandBonez said:

Was he told to escort Poe? I thought that was just something he did without authorization to help him escape?

Yeah unauthorized. Phasma ordered him to submit his blaster for inspection, but it was a veiled threat. He was already suspected of disobeying orders, and assuming his blaster hadn’t malfunctioned, he would be held accountable. At that point, he just decided to run.

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Also seems like a terrible strategy for Finn. Would have been better to fake mental illness, or wait for leave to desert. Even while on a mission on some planet. Deciding to bust into the detention block to rescue someone he’s never met before and then blast his way out of a military ship? Just dumb.

Just stuff like this could have and should have all been cut from the movie. The script is not a good one, or at least it’s uneven. There were plenty of good things to like in this movie, but the stuff before we met Rey is not among them.

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Alderaan said:

Also seems like a terrible strategy for Finn. Would have been better to fake mental illness, or wait for leave to desert. Even while on a mission on some planet. Deciding to bust into the detention block to rescue someone he’s never met before and then blast his way out of said detention center? Just dumb.

Just stuff like this could have and should have all been cut from the movie. The script is not a good one, or at least its uneven. There were plenty of good things to like in this movie, but the stuff before we met Rey is not among them.

Finn postponing his desertion for shore-leave isn’t exactly the best basis for an exiting movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztSV-FDqN0k

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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ZkinandBonez said:

Finn postponing his desertion for shore-leave isn’t exactly the best basis for an exiting movie.

True, but that’s why they should have just cut, cut, cut, and cut this whole part of the story out. Then there would have been plenty of time to give the film moments to breathe later on.

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According to Micheal Arndt it was something BB-8 said to R2 that woke him up.

http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/12/j-j-abrams-lawrence-kasdan-and-michael-arndt-reveal-new-secrets-about-the-force-awakens.html

…but the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren,” Abrams said. Thirty-eight years later, in both our own and galactic time, that data becomes useful in The Force Awakens when a new droid approaches the dormant R2.

BB-8 comes up and says something to him, which is basically, ‘I’ve got this piece of a map, do you happen to have the rest?’” Abrams said. “The idea was, R2 who has been all over the galaxy, is still in his coma, but he hears this. And it triggers something that would ultimately wake him up.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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Snoke isn’t a Sith, though. The Sith are extinct in this time period.

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Alderaan said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Finn postponing his desertion for shore-leave isn’t exactly the best basis for an exiting movie.

True, but that’s why they should have just cut, cut, cut, and cut this whole part of the story out. Then there would have been plenty of time to give the film moments to breathe later on.

Cut it all out and replaced it with what?

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ZkinandBonez said:

According to Micheal Arndt it was something BB-8 said to R2 that woke him up.

http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/12/j-j-abrams-lawrence-kasdan-and-michael-arndt-reveal-new-secrets-about-the-force-awakens.html

…but the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren,” Abrams said. Thirty-eight years later, in both our own and galactic time, that data becomes useful in The Force Awakens when a new droid approaches the dormant R2.

BB-8 comes up and says something to him, which is basically, ‘I’ve got this piece of a map, do you happen to have the rest?’” Abrams said. “The idea was, R2 who has been all over the galaxy, is still in his coma, but he hears this. And it triggers something that would ultimately wake him up.

Darn. I was hoping it was Luke using the Force and telling R2 it was time to wake up. Really would like to have seen Luke decide on his own when to return. I just hate the idea of these people looking for him on a map. Which sounds more interesting, chasing a McGuffin in order to locate the Ark of Covenant, or fighting a battle and trying to hold out long enough in hopes that the savior might make his appearance?

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ZkinandBonez said:

According to Micheal Arndt it was something BB-8 said to R2 that woke him up.

http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/12/j-j-abrams-lawrence-kasdan-and-michael-arndt-reveal-new-secrets-about-the-force-awakens.html

…but the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren,” Abrams said. Thirty-eight years later, in both our own and galactic time, that data becomes useful in The Force Awakens when a new droid approaches the dormant R2.

BB-8 comes up and says something to him, which is basically, ‘I’ve got this piece of a map, do you happen to have the rest?’” Abrams said. “The idea was, R2 who has been all over the galaxy, is still in his coma, but he hears this. And it triggers something that would ultimately wake him up.

I thought it had something to do with either Rey or the saber returning. Didn’t BB-8 communicate that he had part of the map to R2 earlier and nothing happened? Then when Rey shows up he powers up almost immediately.

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For me Force Awakens was initially OK, but the more I think about it the worse it gets.

The new characters:

Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo, BB8, were all good. I have very few complaints about any of them. Most of the minor characters were OK, except Snoke was a bit pointless and looked bad.

The returning characters:

Han was good, Leia passable, Chewie acted like chewie (but didn’t quite look like chewie, much better than the ROTS costume, but still wrong).

Was initially annoyed by Luke’s complete absence but I can see why they did it.

C-3PO - There was something really off about the delivery of all the lines, seemed more like a poor impersonation than the original character, really bugged me that he addressed Han as “Han Solo” rather than Captain Solo or General Solo. Also there was something off about the costume, it seemed less shiny, but that may have been for practical reasons to avoid camera reflections etc.

The nonsense plot:

Luke goes to find an old jedi temple and leaves a map to his location, when does he do this? before he leaves? or he leaves, finds the temple then makes the map and gives a bit to Max von Sydow, then goes back to the temple? and the rest of the map was somehow in the Imperial archives…

What did he tell Max von Sydow to do with the map? “here’s a secret map, just give it to the first person who comes asking for it”, what if Sydow had died and no one ever found the map would Luke have just stayed on the island till he died?

One of my biggest problems is several populated worlds are destroyed, Leia feels it through the force, so you’ve got to assume Luke felt it, yet he does nothing, just stays on his island waiting for someone to solve his map puzzle. I would hope that might bring him to his senses and make him take action, but maybe he was too far away to feel it through the force?

The starkiller base exhausted the sun it was orbiting in two charges, what was the plan after that? can they move the whole planet to orbit a new sun? or dismantle the whole operation and rebuild it on a new planet? or was the plan to only ever fire two shots, one at the Republic capital, one at the resistance base? That’s a reasonable plan, but someone probably should have said that in the film.

The falcon leaves Jakku and is immediately picked up by Solo, so either he was in the area or he was somehow able to detect it and instantly arrive via hyperspace, he said it was easy to track, but tracking ships from a long distance isn’t really a thing that can be done in the Star Wars universe (I can’t think of other examples from the films), but maybe he had previously installed a homing beacon.

What happened to the poison gas? I may have missed it but I don’t remember anyone re-fixing the poison gas leak.

Hyperdrive now seems to be instantaneous to get anywhere, or maybe they just didn’t travel very far, there were no travelling scenes, just felt wrong. But it’s hard to know how far they travelled as we are never told where Jakku is in relation to anything else.

The gun on the falcon jams in position and Finn doesn’t just climb the ladder to use the other one? Not a massive problem but could have made for a fun scene, and they could have saved the trick with the jammed gun for later in the film. Also why didn’t he go to the upper gun and start shooting when the ship was still on the ground?

Why did Captain Phasma have authority to drop the shields for the whole planet, and why did nobody notice that it had happened?

So many questions, it just feels like they rushed into making this film without thinking through the script, another draft or two could probably have fixed a lot of problems.

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hydrospanner said:

ZkinandBonez said:

According to Micheal Arndt it was something BB-8 said to R2 that woke him up.

http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/12/j-j-abrams-lawrence-kasdan-and-michael-arndt-reveal-new-secrets-about-the-force-awakens.html

…but the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren,” Abrams said. Thirty-eight years later, in both our own and galactic time, that data becomes useful in The Force Awakens when a new droid approaches the dormant R2.

BB-8 comes up and says something to him, which is basically, ‘I’ve got this piece of a map, do you happen to have the rest?’” Abrams said. “The idea was, R2 who has been all over the galaxy, is still in his coma, but he hears this. And it triggers something that would ultimately wake him up.

I thought it had something to do with either Rey or the saber returning. Didn’t BB-8 communicate that he had part of the map to R2 earlier and nothing happened? Then when Rey shows up he powers up almost immediately.

Well, this is Arndt speaking. A lot happened to the script when Abrams and Kasdan took over. So you might want to take this information with a grain of salt.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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hydrospanner said:

Cut it all out and replaced it with what?

Anything. Writing a script is a long, difficult process. Hard to put me on the spot here, but the first idea I can think off the top of my head would go like this:

If the writer/studio decided Finn has to be in this movie and he has to be a stormtrooper who deserted, why not start the movie with him having already deserted? Do we really need to see him desert? How about we make it a mystery whether he’s bullshiting us or telling us the truth? Make it so Rey doesn’t know if she can really trust this guy or not. You know, kind of like how Han was in the original. Start the film with Rey’s story, which is by far more compelling, and perhaps Jakku is some outer planet, and that’s why Finn flees there and she eventually meets him.

Getting the droid involved and designing a reason to get Rey off Jakku would be another problem for another day.

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SilverWook said:

hydrospanner said:

One thing I still am not to fond of is the pull out of light speed behind their shields in order to bypass them… not only did it feel incredibly rushed but it seems like the Star Wars equivalent of Treknobabble, and if it was that easy why bother disabling the shields at all? Couldn’t the X-Wing squadron have just done the same thing to lead into their attack?

Perhaps because it’s an old smugglers trick, requiring an incredible amount of timing and luck, and they almost slammed the Falcon into the planet attempting it?

Funny thing, more or less the same idea was present in the original draft of The Phantom Menace (when returning to Naboo), but in that Obi-wan has Anakin decide when to drop out using his super powerful force abilities.

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Did you miss the part where Finn needed someone to fly the Tie Fighter? (Not having flight training is a good way to prevent defections.) And I doubt the New Order bothers treating troops who go mental in the hopes they return to duty. They probably just shoot them.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Max_Rebo said:
One of my biggest problems is several populated worlds are destroyed, Leia feels it through the force, so you’ve got to assume Luke felt it, yet he does nothing, just stays on his island waiting for someone to solve his map puzzle. I would hope that might bring him to his senses and make him take action, but maybe he was too far away to feel it through the force?

He probably felt it. But then again he was hiding from the war so it seems unlikely that it that would prompt him to leave. It’s hard to tell what was up with the whole map thing, but I don’t think he really wished to be found.

There was some talk about Imperial maps, so it might be that Sydows character somehow solved where the temple was based on these maps?

Max_Rebo said:
What happened to the poison gas? I may have missed it but I don’t remember anyone re-fixing the poison gas leak.

Well, Finn asked Rey if she could un-fix it and use it as a trap, so it was definitely fixed at some point.

Max_Rebo said:
Hyperdrive now seems to be instantaneous to get anywhere, or maybe they just didn’t travel very far, there were no travelling scenes, just felt wrong. But it’s hard to know how far they travelled as we are never told where Jakku is in relation to anything else.

That bothered me as well. But then again SW has never been very consistent about the length of hyperspace travel. But, I think the planets in the film are fairly close, so that might be the explanation.

EDIT: It kind of depends on what you call close.
http://www.aceshowbiz.com/images/news/news-00091614-star-wars-galaxy-map.jpg

Max_Rebo said:
Why did Captain Phasma have authority to drop the shields for the whole planet, and why did nobody notice that it had happened?

Well, it wasn’t the entire planet. Just the oscillator thingy that was a weak spot. They essentially removed the shield covering the Starkiller equivalent of the exhaust port in ANH.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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Alderaan said:

Silver, I think there’s a lot of prequel-type apologia going on with this movie right now. Once again I don’t mean that as a put down or attack, I just think some of you are wanting to make more out of this movie than it is, tirelessly attempting to explain away such clear and obvious flaws. YMMV though.

You’re honestly insane if you think people defending this film is “prequel-type apologia.” I’ll be seeing the film again tonight so I’ll have a better idea of my feelings, but I’m pretty sure I loved it. Say what you will about the plot, but at least this movie is FUN (I notice many of the issues but for the most part I just don’t care because of the enjoyable ride). Not to mention the new characters are believable and compelling and it doesn’t trash the mythology of the series or do anything cringe-worthy to the original characters.

I was very young when TPM came out, so I can’t say, but the consensus on this movie right now seems to be very good and genuine.

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SilverWook said:

Did you miss the part where Finn needed someone to fly the Tie Fighter? (Not having flight training is a good way to prevent defections.) And I doubt the New Order bothers treating troops who go mental in the hopes they return to duty. They probably just shoot them.

If he did so well in training that he was placed immediately into an elite unit (with no prior experience), would they really be so quick to kill such a valuable commodity? 😉

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DominicCobb said:

You’re honestly insane if you think people defending this film is “prequel-type apologia.”

Not to me it’s not. I feel the same as Jay, I shouldn’t have to wait for some other movie or book or spinoff to explain to me some esoteric, speciously thin reason of why B followed A. I’ve been listening to this same kind of far-stretched rationalizing for those garbage films for over 16 years.

TFA is much better than Episodes I-III. It is fun if you don’t take it seriously, and there’s a lot to like in the movie. But there’s also a lot not to like. Which is why I give it a “meh” rating and am left wondering what could have been.