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The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 5

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The movie really deserves multiple viewings to take in everything. Once you know where the plot is going, you can see the bells and whistles.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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It’s always been sensory overload with Star Wars. I’m amazed I recall as much of it as I do right now. 😃

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Chewie was definitely not CGI. His fur around his eyes is smoother and shinier for whatever reason. This is something people have been freaking out and doomsdaying about since the teaser in April. Aside from him looking slightly different, I didn’t think he looked like a CG character. In fact, when he was running around setting explosives, I thought he looked very much like a ‘walking carpet’, and about how absurdly out of place he would look in this modern film if we didn’t know the character already.

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Not to be rude, but how did you manage to assume Chewie was CGI?
Have we really gotten so used to digital imagery in these last two decades that we’re starting to assume that everything had to be fake.
Will however admit that the new Chewie was much blonder than before. Maybe that’s just how Woolverstone age. He is after all well over 200 at this point.

I’m also curious to see what his roles in the future films will be now that Han is dead. Didn’t he stick with Han because of some debt, or is that just the EU explanation? Since he went with Rey to find Luke at the end it could be that he’ll be her copilot/sidekick in the next two films.
(I’m also assuming that he’ll play a big part in the upcoming young Han Solo film.)

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
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I had a feeling that was the case. With a Han Solo movie in the works they were going to need a new Chewie eventually. That it was seamless, means the new guy learned from the master Wook.

IIRC, Wookiee life debts can be transferred, or a new one can be forged. Rey because Han thought she was important, (and she knows her way around the Falcon) and Finn because he treated Chewie’s injuries.

Wookiees are also supposed to be Force sensitive. So Rey must light up like a Christmas tree.

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I haven’t posted on OT.com for a very long time, mainly because I was a bit bored and disillusioned with Star Wars. I’ll always love the OT, but I was just a bit ‘over’ everything else.

So let me start by saying I thought this movie was fantastic… Star Wars is back, baby! I saw it twice in the first two days and have been reading up on it ever since. My love and excitement for Star Wars has been reignited.

Obviously it wasn’t perfect, very few movies are, and this one had a lot of weight on its shoulders. But I think JJ and co pulled it off. Credit where credit’s due.

Of course, this is an Internet forum and complaining is what we do best, so I’ll start with the bits I wasn’t so keen on (but I can let them all slide in the grand scheme of things):

  1. CGI characters. Maz, Snoke, that dude who gives Rey her rations… Prosthetics would have looked better in my humble opinion.

  2. Speaking of Maz, or ‘Orange Yoda’ as I like to call her, she felt a bit… pointless. Maybe it would have been better to have Leia give Rey the lightsaber and explain the force to her? It would have at least given Carrie something useful to do 😉

  3. Starkiller. A lot of people are dissing the familiarity of the plot. Yes, it’s a beat for beat retread of ANH. But I’m actually cool with that. For the first movie of a new trilogy I don’t need a convoluted plot, just take me back to a galaxy far, far away, don’t f*ck it up and I’m happy. But I could have lived without a bigger and badder Death Star in the final act.

  4. The Republic/The Resistance. Aren’t they the same thing? Didn’t the rebels win the war and become the republic? Shouldn’t Leia be President or whatever by now? It just felt a bit weird and complicated.

  5. The CGI monster hijinks on Han’s freighter. That whole scene felt like ‘hey we need some fun action and Han being Han stuff here’. It was kinda cringeworthy, and it’s the only bit of the film where I thought Han Solo fell flat.

Anything not mentioned above, I thought was great. And among the stuff that was great there were some bits that were extra-great…

  1. Luke at the end. Goosebumps. Mark Hamill nailed it without saying a word.

  2. The lightsaber fight in the snow, especially the bit where Rey force grabs the lightsaber away from Kylo Ren… Goosebumps.

  3. Kylo Ren. What a great villain. Conflicted, powerful yet weak, petulant in a dangerous way. Adam Driver nailed it.

  4. Han’s ‘it’s all true’ speech. I thought that was a really nice moment for the character.

  5. Han’s death. I avoided all spoilers for this movie, so I hadn’t heard the ‘Han dies’ rumours, but as Han walked onto that bridge you just knew there was at least a strong possibility that it was coming. I found the moment tense, dramatic, sad, poignant.

To summarise, I can’t wait for episode 8. But I’ll be watching Episode 7 at least a couple more times on the big screen first 😃

P.s did anybody else notice the rectangular dish on the falcon to replace the original round one Lando knocked off in ROTJ? That was a nice bit of attention to detail and probably my favourite of the call backs (some of which I found a little forced and unnecessary).

War does not make one great.

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My first impressions;

  • Kylo Ren (or Ben… Solo? Organa? Eh, whatever…) somehow got me more compelled AFTER he took off his mask, although his performance during the big death scene (you know what I’m talking about) kind of leaves me wondering what the hell was even going on his head, though I suppose I prefer that to a lot of other villains I’ve seen before.

  • Not a big fan of Snoke. I’m glad he’s not actually towering like they make us think at first, but he just doesn’t seem that interesting. I’m glad Ren had more screen time.

  • All 4 of the new heroes are AMAZING. Yeah, no real other way to say it. Finn and Poe both were the first indications to me that this movie was actually going to be really good. Or at least, far more fun and enjoyable to watch than recent outings.

  • Han’s Death. Thanks to some jerks in a comment section, I unwittingly spoiled this twist for myself the night before, so the phrase “Han is killed by his son, Kylo Ren” repeated in my mind through the whole movie. I experienced it vicariously through my Dad, who almost fell out of his chair and then shouted “Seriously!?”. I probably would have seen it coming anyway, but the amount of reverence actually seemed very respectful to me. It wasn’t as overblown as even some of the fake-out deaths in Lord of the Rings. I liked that.

  • Jeez, Williams must have really been mad at Lucas! I mean, he was holding back themes and motifs like THIS from us? I mean, Phantom Menace’s soundtrack was almost as good, but even it sounded sedate in comparison. I actually bought the soundtrack physically the night before and forbade myself from looking at the liner notes so that I wouldn’t spoil anything for myself. As you can see from above, it was kind of pointless.

  • It’s nice to have a Star Wars film that doesn’t look like one of those mid-90’s FMV games that couldn’t afford real sets. Not to mention that there are shots in this film where there ISN’T a visual effect, Mr. McCallum.

  • Poe and Phasma felt underutilized. I can’t really complain; at least one of them is gonna come back.

  • I would have preferred there to be no Starkiller base, but I admit, it could have been much, much worse (like the early ROTJ scripts). Still, nice that there’ll be no Coruscant anymore. I got so sick of looking at that place!

  • Hey, the droids can be funny still! R2 felt a bit cheesy, but 3PO was actually involved in something funny for once! (and he didn’t have to fall back on lame puns)

That got out of hand. Whatever. I liked it. I look forward to seeing these protagonists in action again.

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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Yoda Is Your Father said:

  1. CGI characters. Maz, Snoke, that dude who gives Rey her rations… Prosthetics would have looked better in my humble opinion.

He was prosthetics though. He was actually Simon Pegg in a suit. The only time I think they used CGI on him was when he shouted at Rey as she took off with Falcon. His expression liked a bit phony in that shot. Other than that though it was definitely a practical effect.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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Yoda Is Your Father said:

  1. CGI characters. Maz, Snoke, that dude who gives Rey her rations… Prosthetics would have looked better in my humble opinion.

The Character giving Rey her rations was Simon Peggs character. It wasn’t CG, unless they emnhanced the face during post production. Hopefully we get to see the character in behind the scenes stuff

http://i2.wp.com/bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/slashfilm/wp/wp-content/images/simonpegg-sizzlereel-featurette-combo.jpg

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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You can tell it’s a guy in a suit but the face/mask was augmented with CG… surely? It sure looked like it was anyway.

When I think back to how amazing Yoda still looks in ESB…

War does not make one great.

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As I’ve said elsewhere, the galaxy is in Cold War type situation at the beginning. The Resistance is fighting the good fight, and the Republic is looking the other way, yet supporting them in secret. (Yes, it’s the worst kept secret in the galaxy, but that’s politics for you.) As that sure looked like Coruscant getting vaporized, things have changed drastically.

And Han’s death got spoiled for me twice. Once when I accidentally clicked on new tweets updating the OT twitter account, and again when some dumbass blurted it out in a chatroom that had absolutely nothing to do with Star Wars. So many arms that need pulling out of their sockets. 😉

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SilverWook said:

As I’ve said elsewhere, the galaxy is in Cold War type situation at the beginning. The Resistance is fighting the good fight, and the Republic is looking the other way, yet supporting them in secret. (Yes, it’s the worst kept secret in the galaxy, but that’s politics for you.) As that sure looked like Coruscant getting vaporized, things have changed drastically.

It’s a good answer, and it goes some way to making sense of it all, so thanks.

But why would they look the other way? The Galactic Empire was awful, whole systems celebrated when it was overthrown. Wouldn’t everybody want to stop the First Order before history repeats itself.

And I don’t mean stop them by supporting a small band of rebels/resistance. I mean go at them, full pelt, and STOP THEM.

War does not make one great.

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Just got back from my second viewing, and I actually think I liked it a lot more. The things that bothered me the first time bothered me less, and the overall rhythm felt a lot more natural now that I’m familiar with the entire thing. Bring on VIII, I’m fully on board.

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joefavs said:

Just got back from my second viewing, and I actually think I liked it a lot more. The things that bothered me the first time bothered me less, and the overall rhythm felt a lot more natural now that I’m familiar with the entire thing. Bring on VIII, I’m fully on board.

Ha me too! Literally just got in - expecting for the initial ‘wow’ and funny moments to ware off - but after digesting much of the plot - I really enjoyed it more.

Still can’t reconcile starkiller base though.

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I was going to wait until next week to see the movie, both to avoid crowds at the theater and because the hype has become nauseatingly oversaturated, but I ended up going to an early show because I realized I’d never be able to avoid spoilers otherwise.

Now that I’ve had a day to think it over, my overall feeling is a resounding . . . meh.

There are parts of this film that looked a bit like Star Wars. There are parts of it that sounded a bit like Star Wars. There are even some parts that felt a bit like Star Wars. But the overall result? Not Star Wars. Not sure what it was, exactly, but Star Wars it surely was not.

In tone and execution, it had distinctly more in common with the Abrams-Trek films than with the original trilogy. It’s really a matter of style over substance. Oh, there were some good things in it, certainly. Rey was the best thing in the whole movie without a doubt. She was a great character, and whenever she wasn’t on screen, I wanted her to be back on it. Han was pretty good, too. And the ball droid surprised the heck out of me by not being an obnoxious piece of crap, as I’d been sure it would be. It was cute, without being overly cute.

But there, I’m sad to say, the good parts end. The plot was an incoherent mess, riffing on the original films while not actually managing to add up to anything on its own. The visual effects looked kind of stupid. This isn’t just a matter of their being models or CGI, since apparently both were used, but more to do with the way they moved and how they related to the camera. If you’ve ever watched Mike Verta’s video on the motion of the spaceships and the starfield backgrounds in the original film, you’ll know what I’m talking about. This just felt wrong, because I could never suspend my disbelief and feel like I was looking at anything that could have been really happening.

The other characters weren’t any good, either. Alien-sage lady was dumb. I went to the bathroom during that scene and came back while it was still going on, and could immediately tell I hadn’t missed anything worth seeing. Finn hyperventilated way too much and would have been better if he’d tried underplaying it sometimes. Kylo Ren (which incidentally is a stupid and terrible name) was only a half-decent villain while he kept his mask on. Once he took the mask off, it was all over. Any scariness or credibility he had went right out the window once his whiny prequel-Anakin true persona was revealed. I guess since prequel-Anakin is his grandfather, that makes some kind of twisted sense.

As far as Han’s death goes, well, seeing a favorite character bite the dust was pretty traumatic. I knew it was going to happen at least 20 minutes in advance, so when it actually did occur I just rolled my eyes and kind of tuned out for the rest of the film. But it certainly had its effect, since I was in a bad mood for the rest of the day. In doing this, the filmmakers committed the same cardinal sin as Karen Traviss in whatever EU book, when Jacen Solo turned evil and bumped off Mara Jade. In both cases, a son of Han Solo has turned evil for no real reason and tries to establish their ‘bad guy’ credentials by killing a favorite character. In both cases, said bad guy is just an obnoxious punk who could not possibly hope to be taken seriously as a villain in any other way. Ren isn’t a worthy bad guy in any sense; he’s just a pathetic Vader-wannabe with daddy issues——which we’re never even given a reason for. This scene only works in a vaguely superficial sense; when you stop and think about it, the whole thing falls apart.

What’s even worse is that the whole thing could have easily been prevented. Luke, apparently, has just been sitting around in Butt-F*** Egypt twiddling his balls, not doing a thing to help anyone. Had he been there, Han’s death need never have happened. The sheer obviousness of this plot contrivance really stood out and made me very angry to think about. So, I really have to hand it to them for doing something I thought was impossible: congratulations, JJ, you actually made me hate Luke Skywalker. Thanks a lot, you piece of trash.

On the technical side, the person who commented above and said the blasters often sounded wrong to them was spot on with this observation. Not only did they sound wrong, they were inconsistent. I had a sinking feeling when the Millennium Falcon’s turret lasers sounded absolutely nothing like how they did in the original films. Why is it that the Shadows of the Empire video game can get this right, but the guy who actually came up with the sound effects in the first place can’t? You’re losing it, Ben Burtt . . . oh wait, never mind, it must have been Matthew Wood’s fault. When in doubt, blame Matthew Wood. That’s always a good policy.

Oh, and that tri-bladed saber thing? Still as dumb as it was when they first showed it.

Like I said, I didn’t completely hate the movie. There are some good things in it, and I’ll see the others to finish the story. I might have liked it a bit more if it had no connection to Star Wars, and was instead some generic, unrelated movie. It will never replace the Thrawn books: those are always going to be the ‘real’ sequel trilogy to me. If you think of these new movies as just being some bizarre alternate universe rather than the true story, it’s easier to set them aside. As I’ve said before, the prequels, special editions, and sequel movies form the ‘official’ continuity; while the unaltered original films and Zahn books are what I consider the actual events. Besides, as long as the original versions of the OT are unreleased, everything else is just a cynical way to cash in on the name of Star Wars. None of it means a damn thing as long as they continue to be suppressed. Until then, it’s just a zombie franchise, nothing more.

So . . . really, the best thing you can say about this film is that it is better than the prequels. But then, that is the very definition of ‘damning with faint praise’.

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My thoughts:

Saw it Friday night. I left the theater LOVING it (though it does have MANY faults). For me, there are two telling things about how much I liked this movie:

  1. As soon as it ended, I wanted to see it again.
  2. I CANNOT WAIT for the next episode.

Sure as hell wasn’t thinking those things after seeing Phantom Menace for the first time!

There is A LOT to process, and it will take several viewings, and the passage of time to fully process how good the movie is and where it falls in the SW lore. The fact that I’m even thinking to myself, “hmm, this might be my 3rd favorite SW movie” is saying a lot.

However, this is just my initial impression after 1 viewing… I’m sure my thoughts on many things will change on many of these things!

From the opening scene, up to the scene where the rathtars get released… could not have been more perfect. Absolutely loved just about everything about it. Energy. Emotion. Excitement. THIS IS STAR WARS.

I could watch an entire movie about BB-8.

There’s actually TOO MUCH GOOD STUFF for me to write about, so I will actually skip to the stuff I didn’t really care for, because I need to get it off my chest:

  • I did not understand the politics of the galaxy at all, or understand the scale of the conflict. Republic, Resistance, First Order? I know we don’t want the boring political dialog from the prequels, but I feel like a basic understanding of the conflict could’ve easily been accomplished. Not sure what JJ was thinking here. Not a huge deal though, but when you’re thinking to yourself “what the hell is this conflict about?”, it’s not a good thing.

  • Another Death Star, seriously? I know, relatively speaking, it wasn’t that important to the plot. But I absolutely detest this and cannot believe they included it. Also hated the weapon itself. Seeing it suck away a sun is just terrible, embarrassingly stupid scifi to me. It was like the complete opposite of Star Wars. Hated everything about it.

  • The rathtars scene should’ve been cut from the movie.
  • Didn’t really care for Maz and her outpost at all- except for the lightsaber/Rey vision stuff. Maz was kind of a pointless character and her CGI took me out of the movie completely- not that her CGI was bad, or anything, just that my mind kept telling me “YOU ARE LOOKING AT A COMPUTER-GENERATED ALIEN.” Maybe I’ll get used to it.

  • A lot of people seem to love it, but I thought the stormtrooper yelling “TRAITOR!” and challenging Finn to a duel was stupid and pointless, and IMO, was just an excuse to have a lightsaber fight. Why didn’t he just shoot Finn?

  • There wasn’t much time to BREATHE in this movie. I was really hoping for more of the pacing of ANH. There wasn’t much time to reflect on things. Again, lots to process. Perhaps the movie will “slow down” after multiple viewings.

Again, the good outweighed the bad considerably. Just needed to get some complaints off my chest.

Anyone remember different camera angles from ROTJ?

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Haven’t seen this mentioned elsewhere, but did anyone notice in Rey’s vision, at one point you can hear Luke screaming- I think it’s either him screaming “Noooo!” after Vader says “search your feelings, you know it to be true” in ESB, or it was him screaming in pain as the Emperor electrocutes him in ROTJ.

Anyway, pretty sure they used a Luke scream from the OT in that scene.

Anyone remember different camera angles from ROTJ?

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hairy_hen said:

The visual effects looked kind of stupid. This isn’t just a matter of their being models or CGI, since apparently both were used, but more to do with the way they moved and how they related to the camera. If you’ve ever watched Mike Verta’s video on the motion of the spaceships and the starfield backgrounds in the original film, you’ll know what I’m talking about. This just felt wrong, because I could never suspend my disbelief and feel like I was looking at anything that could have been really happening.

I agree with you on a lot of this, for at least SOME of the movie.

I felt like the spaceship movement was decent (though kind of over the top, but what do you expect in a modern movie) in the beginning (Finn/Po, Rey/Finn, Resistance attacking First Order on Maz’s planet). They kept it at least somewhat restrained.

HOWEVER, I think the dogfighting and everything at the Death Star battle (I refuse to dignify it by calling it “Starkiller”), is complete shit and I pretty much hated it. Really terrible use of effects.

Anyone remember different camera angles from ROTJ?

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Yoda Is Your Father said:

SilverWook said:

As I’ve said elsewhere, the galaxy is in Cold War type situation at the beginning. The Resistance is fighting the good fight, and the Republic is looking the other way, yet supporting them in secret. (Yes, it’s the worst kept secret in the galaxy, but that’s politics for you.) As that sure looked like Coruscant getting vaporized, things have changed drastically.

It’s a good answer, and it goes some way to making sense of it all, so thanks.

But why would they look the other way? The Galactic Empire was awful, whole systems celebrated when it was overthrown. Wouldn’t everybody want to stop the First Order before history repeats itself.

And I don’t mean stop them by supporting a small band of rebels/resistance. I mean go at them, full pelt, and STOP THEM.

I can only presume the same sort of idiots who believed a silver tongued guy like Palpatine pre Episode III thought The First Order could be appeased, or would be content to stay in it’s own sectors. (Plenty of real world examples of this.) The Rebellion might have even been dismantled by the new Republic government. Or dumb enough to sign non agression pacts with the First Order. That Leia and Ackbar seem to be running the Resistance speaks to diplomacy not really working.

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Wasn’t Kenny Baker going to be in the movie too? Not that Artoo had much to do.

I wonder where Warwick Davis appears?

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Warwick Davis is apparently in the cantina scene.

There’s one shot where Artoo jiggles a bit but it looked like it might have been CGI?

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SilverWook said:
The impression I got is the Resistance is a covert army fighting the New Order on behalf of the Republic, they don’t publicly sanction the Resistance, but are probably funding them secretly. It’s the worst kept secret of the Cold War era the galaxy is in a the beginning of the film. The New Order is the splintered remains of the old Empire regrouped and reformed under the leadership of this Snoke guy.

Some quotes from “Before The Awakening”:

“Have you heard of the Resistance, Poe?” “Rumors, mostly.” “Such as?” “Such as there’s a splinter of the Republic military that…that feels the Republic isn’t taking certain threats as seriously as they maybe ought to be taking them. Specifically the threat posed by the First Order.” “That’s a very diplomatic way to put it, but not an entirely inaccurate one.”

Republic space and First Order space were separated by a buffer zone of neutral systems, and the peace that had been negotiated—a peace that many, including Poe, believed existed in name only—meant that military action taken by one side upon the other was considered an overt act of war.

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doubleofive said:

SilverWook said:
The impression I got is the Resistance is a covert army fighting the New Order on behalf of the Republic, they don’t publicly sanction the Resistance, but are probably funding them secretly. It’s the worst kept secret of the Cold War era the galaxy is in a the beginning of the film. The New Order is the splintered remains of the old Empire regrouped and reformed under the leadership of this Snoke guy.

Some quotes from “Before The Awakening”:

“Have you heard of the Resistance, Poe?” “Rumors, mostly.” “Such as?” “Such as there’s a splinter of the Republic military that…that feels the Republic isn’t taking certain threats as seriously as they maybe ought to be taking them. Specifically the threat posed by the First Order.” “That’s a very diplomatic way to put it, but not an entirely inaccurate one.”

Republic space and First Order space were separated by a buffer zone of neutral systems, and the peace that had been negotiated—a peace that many, including Poe, believed existed in name only—meant that military action taken by one side upon the other was considered an overt act of war.

This explanation is completely satisfactory for me. Why wasn’t it included in the movie?

Anyone remember different camera angles from ROTJ?