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The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 24

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Alderaan said:

Well, that’s kind of my point. Everyone will now become a good guy. We’ll have an entire series where everyone is prequel Anakin, and Kylo, and Phasma who didn’t mean to do bad things. They are just misguided kids making mistakes and killing people because some bad emperor or bogeyman tricked them into doing it.

Well Phasma wouldn’t necessarily have to be one of the good guys if she left the First Order… They could take it in a different direction where she is more of a grey character. It was just an idea to possibly explain why it seemed she complied with their demands so easily.

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hydrospanner said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

Alderaan said:

It’s really hard to decide which is the worst Star Wars character in history now, Jar Jar or Phasma? At least Jar Jar was a genuine character, even if wildly inappropriate and hopelessly annoying. Even the Ewoks were cute and had their emotional little moments.

Phasma’s only purpose in the entire ******* film was to lower the shields for the resistance. That’s it. Just imagine an imperial officer whose only function was to lower the shields on Endor and say “you’re gonna regret this!”

I agree. She could have been so cool but they made her a useless patsy.

The cynical side of me believes she was only included in the marketing hype to highlight another female character.

I’d like to see her return in VIII, but if she does she’s been tainted with the lame brush. Any soldier/officer worth their salt would surely rather die defending the first order than let the base be destroyed.

And if she did indeed manage to get out of the trash compactor, and somehow escape the planet before it exploded, she should be renamed Captain Houdini.

It could be that they softened her character purposefully? Maybe seeing Finn defect affected her and she is heading down that same road and starting to question the First Order’s motives. That is why she put the shields down without much of a fight. Maybe we see her leave the First Order in the next film. Just an idea.

An interesting idea. Although if that’s the case I don’t feel like they developed her enough for me to care.

War does not make one great.

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Alderaan said:

It’s really hard to decide which is the worst Star Wars character in history now, Jar Jar or Phasma? At least Jar Jar was a genuine character, even if wildly inappropriate and hopelessly annoying. Even the Ewoks were cute and had their emotional little moments.

Phasma’s only purpose in the entire ******* film was to lower the shields for the resistance. That’s it. Just imagine an imperial officer whose only function was to lower the shields on Endor and say “you’re gonna regret this!”

I think her role was to sell action figures, ‘chrome trooper’, such a shame.

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MrToad883 said:

Hal 9000 said:

MrToad883 said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but was the lightsaber ignition sound for anakin/lukes saber accurate to the OT? it sounded different to me

This annoyed me too. The first time Finn ignites it, it sounds like Vader’s saber to me. I was on alert for this after having replaced two saber sound effects for my Ep3 edit that were wrong. Then again, the DVD remaster has the ROTJ saber ignition used in ESB, so I’m not sure what they’re smoking.

Haha hal, something to fix in your future edit…

Can’t speak on the sound so much (though a number of effects such as blasters and the Falcon’s quad cannons definately sounded… Different…). But they totally got the power button wrong. In one shot (I think as he’s about to engage the riot trooper shock stick guy), Finn CLEARLY mashes the big red button near the top to ignite the saber. Trouble is, it’s clearly established in the OT (specifically, the very first time Luke ignites this same saber in obi-wan’s house, but plenty of other times too) that the power button is the big rectangular block located down nearer the black grips. This is further emphasized by the fact that ALL of the OT sabers have a similar big rectangular block that you see the actors pressing when turning them on or off, but none of the other OT sabers have a big red button.

I’m not sure why this minor detail bugged me so much, but it really got under my skin when I saw it. Like, I almost wanted to shout out in the theater, “that’s the wrong button!” Thankfully I constrained myself to an eye roll and, probably, a huff of indignance.

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If Rey turns out to be Luke’s daughter, it would be the first time in Star Wars history that father gets to train their offspring in the way of the Force. Vader intended to train Luke, but now Luke can have this moment with Rey.

We’re assuming Luke will even train Rey though too. He might refuse.

The Rise of Failures

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TavorX said:

We’re assuming Luke will even train Rey though too. He might refuse.

That would be a nice plot actually. We’re also assuming Luke is still enlighted but maybe it turns out that he became bad ;o

Fuck sake

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Bosk said:

Alderaan said:

It’s really hard to decide which is the worst Star Wars character in history now, Jar Jar or Phasma? At least Jar Jar was a genuine character, even if wildly inappropriate and hopelessly annoying. Even the Ewoks were cute and had their emotional little moments.

Phasma’s only purpose in the entire ******* film was to lower the shields for the resistance. That’s it. Just imagine an imperial officer whose only function was to lower the shields on Endor and say “you’re gonna regret this!”

I think her role was to sell action figures, ‘chrome trooper’, such a shame.

Don’t forget that they cut roughly 20 minutes from TFA just prior to its release. And a few months ago the film was 4 hours long.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novels.

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ZkinandBonez said:

Bosk said:

Alderaan said:

It’s really hard to decide which is the worst Star Wars character in history now, Jar Jar or Phasma? At least Jar Jar was a genuine character, even if wildly inappropriate and hopelessly annoying. Even the Ewoks were cute and had their emotional little moments.

Phasma’s only purpose in the entire ******* film was to lower the shields for the resistance. That’s it. Just imagine an imperial officer whose only function was to lower the shields on Endor and say “you’re gonna regret this!”

I think her role was to sell action figures, ‘chrome trooper’, such a shame.

Don’t forget that they cut roughly 20 minutes from TFA just prior to its release. And a few months ago the film was 4 hours long.

Give me those rushes and i’ll have a go at rectifying it 😃

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Yoda Is Your Father said:

PeakSine said:

Is Rey the daughter of Luke Skywalker? I’m curious about your thoughts!

I hope not. Too obvious. Why can’t she be strong in the force without being a Skywalker?

I agree. I really hope she’s Rey Random and our only family connection is Ben. Stop the universe shrinking before it gets any worse.

Forum Moderator
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Anchorhead said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

PeakSine said:

Is Rey the daughter of Luke Skywalker? I’m curious about your thoughts!

I hope not. Too obvious. Why can’t she be strong in the force without being a Skywalker?

I agree. I really hope she’s Rey Random and our only family connection is Ben. Stop the universe shrinking before it gets any worse.

Exactly! But I’m afraid they will choose the easy way so she will be Luke’s.

Fuck sake

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PeakSine said:

Anchorhead said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

PeakSine said:

Is Rey the daughter of Luke Skywalker? I’m curious about your thoughts!

I hope not. Too obvious. Why can’t she be strong in the force without being a Skywalker?

I agree. I really hope she’s Rey Random and our only family connection is Ben. Stop the universe shrinking before it gets any worse.

Exactly! But I’m afraid they will choose the easy way so she will be Luke’s.

Wouldn’t it be easier if she isn’t his daughter? No need to explain who her mother was or what happened to her and pretty much any explanation for how she ended up on Jakku would be easy to make sense of.

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Something that just came to me- we see that Ren is pulled to the light, so he prays to Vader’s mask to help him stay down the dark path.

Does he know that Vader eventually turned to the light? Maybe if he continues to worship Vader and his mask, he will be pulled to the light?

Also related to this, does Vader’s mask have any force “imprints” like Luke’s lightsaber does?

Anyone remember different camera angles from ROTJ?

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Alderaan said:

It’s really hard to decide which is the worst Star Wars character in history now, Jar Jar or Phasma?

No, it’s really easy to decide.

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Anyone who is complaining how easily Rey picked up using The Force has apparently not seen ANH in a long time.

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SpilkaBilka said:

Something that just came to me- we see that Ren is pulled to the light, so he prays to Vader’s mask to help him stay down the dark path.

Does he know that Vader eventually turned to the light? Maybe if he continues to worship Vader and his mask, he will be pulled to the light?

I was reading a comment about this. Some believe Snoke is tricking Kylo by exploting the story of Vader. Vader never has spoken to Ben via the helmet or any other relics. Instead, Snoke is making it seem as if Vader speaks to Kylo Ren. Manipulating Kylo Ren into thinking Vader was this tragic hero that was under-appreciated or some shit. You could say that Luke probably already told Ben about Vader’s redemption. However, I don’t think Luke would freely boast about Vader to his new and training Jedi, including Ben. It’s a dark and emotional thing for Luke to bring up. This is of course is Luke’s flaw and allows Snoke to feed into Kylo Ren’s mind that Luke is trying to hide the ‘true’ story of Vader.

The Rise of Failures

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TavorX said:

SpilkaBilka said:

Something that just came to me- we see that Ren is pulled to the light, so he prays to Vader’s mask to help him stay down the dark path.

Does he know that Vader eventually turned to the light? Maybe if he continues to worship Vader and his mask, he will be pulled to the light?

I was reading a comment about this. Some believe Snoke is tricking Kylo by exploting the story of Vader. Vader never has spoken to Ben via the helmet or any other relics. Instead, Snoke is making it seem as if Vader speaks to Kylo Ren. Manipulating Kylo Ren into thinking Vader was this tragic hero that was under-appreciated or some shit. You could say that Luke probably already told Ben about Vader’s redemption. However, I don’t think Luke would freely boast about Vader to his new and training Jedi, including Ben. It’s a dark and emotional thing for Luke to bring up. This is of course is Luke’s flaw and allows Snoke to feed into Kylo Ren’s mind that Luke is trying to hide the ‘true’ story of Vader.

That is an interesting take. I wonder if Snoke was the one who recovered the burnt up Vader armor. Anyone notice when he takes his mask off he sets it in a pile of what looks like ashes?

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I’ve read (from official sources) that the idea is that Snoke told Kylo that Vader’s redemption was actually a moment of weakness, that he was seduced to the light side which lead to his death and the destruction of the Empire (much the same way Luke was told Anakin was seduced to the dark side which lead to his “death” and the destruction of the Republic). Kylo’s fears of turning back to the light echo Luke’s fears of turning to the dark.

Anyway, when Kylo says he’ll finish what Vader started, he means what Vader didn’t get to finish because of his “redemption” (and the what being I assume the eradication of the Jedi - so Luke, who from his point of view is analogous to the Emperor from Luke’s).

A reall fascinating twist on the established story, I think.

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I really like that and seems to fit.

Edit: Official sources?

The Rise of Failures

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That might even be why he hates Luke, because he blames him for having “corrupted” Vader to the light side. Hence the whole “I’ll finish what you started.”

Also his obsession with Vader/Anakin relics might have to do with Force imprints. Maybe he wants to get as much out of them as possible, regardless of what eventually happened to Vader. If the imprints can be used somehow, then Anakin’s lightsaber should be really valuable as it was present when he turned from the light to the dark side.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novels.

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I have spent the past few days ruminating upon my experience in seeing The Force Awakens…essentially my disappointment outweighs my enthusiasm. I feel the corner has finally been turned. I am not certain I will endeavor to watch any further productions of the series…at least not in theaters.

I have arrived at this decision based on 12 main factors:

  1. The entire movie was a remake of A New Hope. Given the incredible amount of material available with which to craft a natural continuation of the Star Wars Universe the fact that an exact remake of the 4th movie suggests one of two possibilities: 1) a timidity on the part of writers/producers to stray from a winning formula or 2) a rational and cynical decision to provide viewers with the exact same film in order to maximize profits. In either case the suggestion is that we will be fed a steady diet of same in future releases. I would prefer to watch modified episodes 1 - 3 than endure a review of a film I have already seen.

  2. The dynamic among the Republic, the Resistance, and the First Order is seemingly thin to the point of breakage. The Resistance is resisting what exactly? It has tacit support of the Republic, but not its formidable funding? Why is it not simply a Republic force? Why is it labelled the Resistance if it’s sole function is to oppose the First Order? A resistance force is expected to be battling against an established regime and not merely a competing faction of the collapsed Empire. I would have welcomed the introduction of two or three alternate forces, each vying for control of the remaining Republic Empire. Having a Republic force supplemented by a Resistance each facing the same First Order is decidedly uninspired.

  3. Witnessing the conscience of one solitary Storm Trooper is interesting. However his immediate escape and subsequent collision with Rey is frustratingly simplistic. Lost was an entire chapter of the struggles of Storm Troopers to overcome their conditioning as Finn might have attempted to recruit others from among his fellows to his side…to form a fifth column element within the First Order. This fifth column could then have been the primary source of intelligence to the Resistance as well as the means by which the destruction of the new Star Killer base might have been achieved. There would have been no need for another Thermal Flaw in the Death Star design.

Further, Finn’s seeming lack of restraint in firing on his previous comrades seems surprising…for had he not lived and trained with these soldiers since his early childhood? Far from showing him up as a hero in such a scene it seems more to paint him as a particularly disconnected individual.

  1. The destruction at the Yellow Yoda’s castle does not seemingly make sense. The effort to recover a solitary droid required space ships to enter the atmosphere and utterly pulverize the very location where said droid was alleged to be found? Would not a party of ground troops had far greater success and at far less risk? For what may have prevented the data from being irrevocably lost seemingly was pure happenstance. This use of a crane to crack a walnut seemed extremely odd…even odder than Yellow Yoda.

  2. The loss of the primary Republic planets seems pointless. One would assume that ownership of the Republic seat of power would have been considered the entire purpose behind any effort to control the entire Republic: possession of this key system should have served to cement control. Instead, by having it removed from the equation, it appears the First Order has decided it would rather rule over a series of disparate frontier worlds instead of an entire civilization. While this could be understood as an act of desperation by a losing party, or an act of terror by an extremist ideology it is not quite plain that the First Order occupies either position.

  3. Rey’s ability to outforce a true adept at the Dark Side is patently absurd. Even if she had received training she had only done so until the age of 4 or 5. To what purpose must an individual such as Ren sacrifice all of his familial ties and goodness if he might be outfought by an adept with zero practical training? Clearly Ren as a villain has been removed from the equation. He will remain forever sitting in the snow in my mind. Any future plot devices allowing for his alleged strength have been permanently barred from further reality. He was handily defeated by two individuals who had never previously held light sabers. All future force training efforts need no longer apply. Any former Storm Trooper will suffice for a runner up, while any 5 year old in a woman’s body might complete the task.

  4. Ren should not have removed his mask. Masked, he was a formidable and unknown quantity. To attempt to humanize him from the beginning robbed the audience of the ability to fear him, to respect him, and then to finally realize his true depth at a later date. At this moment he is now little more than an overly emotional youth complaining of too much homework. His darkness has been replaced by meaningless angst. The effort to portray him as having a humanity beneath his mask has been thwarted by showing his killing of his own father for reasons hinted at (that he would gain in the use of the Dark Side) that only a few frames later are revealed to be false (he is handily beaten by two greenhorns working in single file). No convincing reason has equally been provided to explain his ferocious turn to the Dark Side. If it was due to Han having abandoned him as a child to chase after alien women then perhaps a more logical take might be made of both his inner angst and his hatred of Han, but it is made clear that his father left only after Ren turned evil.

  5. Snokes…this villain is ridiculous. Aside from the fact that his name is reminiscent of Snopes, he appears little more than a repeat of the Emperor…save this time we are treated to his entire visage instead of having something left to the imagination.

  6. A paucity of space battles, in spite of being the namesake of the entire series.

  7. The Starkiller base appeared to be a throwaway weapon. In consuming its system star the obvious consequence should have been the eventual lack of habitability of the planet and the loss of purpose of such a stationary weapon. Indeed destroying the third Death Star had little true purpose outside of saving the Resistance the hassle of relocating their evidently easily relocatable base.

  8. R2 and the map.

  9. Phasma and the shield. Having lowered the shield is bad enough, but she did this while both of her ‘captors’ were clearly distracted with their backs to her. No effort at resistance performing a task which must have appeared to be a death sentence…and why might the shield plausibly be deactivated in such a small control room far away from the main control center…? Certainly the lowering must have been noted and a counter command able to be issued from said center? Or is it to be believed that an individual must needs run down to this room in order to perform the function at that location?

I feel that a modern laziness in plot and purpose in action films has infected the new Star Wars films as well. It does not seem to be meaningful to hope that anything might improve in the near future.

Positives from the film? I enjoyed the effects. I enjoyed seeing Han Solo. The temperature of the film was more in line with the originals. Had I not previously seen it before as A New Hope I would have enjoyed it as a stand-alone film.

Rating 6/10

I was once…but now I’m not… Further: zyzzogeton

“It wasn’t the flood that destroyed the pantry…”

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Nice to see you back posting, Praetorian. It’s been a long time, no see.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Nice to see you back posting, Praetorian. It’s been a long time, no see.

Thank you my friend…I have been busy these past few months…finally catching up!

I was once…but now I’m not… Further: zyzzogeton

“It wasn’t the flood that destroyed the pantry…”

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In the second teaser trailer, Luke says, “The Force is strong in my family. My father had it, I have it, my sister has it…you have that power, too.”

It didn’t appear in TFA, so maybe we’ll see it in VIII, and while it’s not definitive, it does imply a familial connection between Luke and Rey. (It’s clearly a new recording of Hamill’s voice, and my assumption is that it’s being spoken to Rey.)

It was kind of depressing to watch all the trailers again, because the trailers are excellent.

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