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The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 130

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Lord Haseo said:
I disagree as Kylo taking off his mask is out of character as he didn’t do it for Lor San Tekka or Poe. The only two people he did this for were his father and this scavenger. Why would he do such a thing for a seemingly insignificant figure?

I said nothing close to it being out of character. It’s very much in character. I just don’t think there is much character. As someone else said, he’s just a bratty kid who doesn’t know what he’s doing.

At what point is Rey an insignificant character? He’s aware she feels The Force, strongly perhaps. She’s not insignificant in the Force sensitive world, so taking off the mask is again in character. He knows there isn’t any reason to cosplay around her, so he speaks to her directly. It’s his strongest scene in the film, thanks primarily to Driver being so strong an actor.

As for it being premature to judge him, Disney has only given me the one film. My opinion at this point stands. The character spends time sitting in a room talking to a mask worn by his grandfather, then puts on a similar mask, and proceeds to go around emulating his grandfather’s behavior. In my view that’s baggage.

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Well, I just watched TFA for the first time in about a year, and honestly, after seeing the seething, endless vitriolic hatred this film gets in some other circles (hey it’s pretty much an echo chamber here on OT so at least I won’t get e-murdered by saying this)…I think it’s actually pretty decent.

It’s not perfect by any means, but it certainly isn’t as bad as many would try to spin it. I honestly wasn’t bothered by the retreading of ANH’s plot since this film was able to do it’s own thing, and can stand on it’s own. I mean, the film is structured, paced, and overall so radically different, you’d really have to heavily cut out major scenes and chunks out of the plot, then agonizingly stretch out others for it to even get close to resembling ANH. That aside, my only real major gripe is with pretty much everything surrounding Starkiller Base, but at the end of the day, it’s just a plot device, and it gets the job done. I don’t see people mercilessly attacking Jedi for doing practically the same thing.

Other than that, SFX were good, soundtrack was great, cinematography was beautiful, characters and performances were fantastic, and the fan service, while plentiful, wasn’t non-stop, shoved-into-your-skull-in-like-a-fucking-frying-pan like Disney’s marketing, which was (and still is) something I whole-heartedly abhor. But that’s a rant for another day.

What, a man builds a giant mound of dirt in his house and you aren’t entertained?

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Anchorhead said:

Lord Haseo said:
I disagree as Kylo taking off his mask is out of character as he didn’t do it for Lor San Tekka or Poe. The only two people he did this for were his father and this scavenger. Why would he do such a thing for a seemingly insignificant figure?

I said nothing close to it being out of character. It’s very much in character. I just don’t think there is much character. As someone else said, he’s just a bratty kid who doesn’t know what he’s doing.

I don’t think the bratty thing applies in this instance. Him taking off his mask shows a level of intimacy he didn’t show Lor San Tekka (someone who he has known for a long time) and Poe. It’s understandable when he took his mask off for his Father but for him to do it to Rey is puzzling.

At what point is Rey an insignificant character? He’s aware she feels The Force, strongly perhaps. She’s not insignificant in the Force sensitive world, so taking off the mask is again in character. He knows there isn’t any reason to cosplay around her, so he speaks to her directly. It’s his strongest scene in the film, thanks primarily to Driver being so strong an actor.

I got that impression from this:

“It’s carrying a section of a navigational chart. And we have the rest. Recovered from the archives of the Empire, but we need the last piece. And, somehow, you convinced the droid to show it to you. You…A scavenger.” - Kylo Ren

We know she’s important because we’re the audience but we don’t definitively know if they’ve met prior to the events of TFA we don’t know how Kylo felt really when he took his mask off. The only time he even seems to know she’s Force Sensitive is after she invades his mind.

As for it being premature to judge him, Disney has only given me the one film. My opinion at this point stands. The character spends time sitting in a room talking to a mask worn by his grandfather, then puts on a similar mask, and proceeds to go around emulating his grandfather’s behavior. In my view that’s baggage.

Vague impressions are fine but I prefer forming opinions when I have the full picture. I rarely base things soles on premise or only having seen one piece of a larger story/puzzle.

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Good points, well made. We’ll find out in 11 months how close either of is to what they have planned. At this point, my only real hope is Rey Random. If they give Kylo some depth, that’s a bonus.

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I prefer Rey Kenobi but Rey Random is fine too. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on Kylo.

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Considering The Clone Wars is canon and considering what we learned about Obi-Wan and women during that series, I like to think he wouldn’t have any children.

Trying to keep spoilers to a minimum there.

To that end, I prefer her being a random. But at the same time, we definitely know there’s some sort of destiny at play here. Parents don’t generally just ditch their kid on a desert planet full of horrible people for funsies.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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I prefer her being random. Being Obi-Wan’s granddaughter would feel forced. I don’t see how a reveal of such information about her lineage would change the story all that much. When Luke finally figured out Vader was his father, it affected everything. He was just lied to. Luke had already built up the image in his mind of a valiant warrior who was his father. Figuring out that the biggest baddie in the entire galaxy is your father is much more than figuring out your grandfather was just a noble Jedi. If they revealed Obi-Wan to be Rey’s grandfather it would be as if we never got ANY hint as to who Luke’s father was in episode 4, and then in episode 5, he figures out his dad was a good pilot and a friend of Obi-wan. It wouldn’t affect Luke all that much or the story. That’s why her being random or Luke’s daughter would be fine. Because it can tie into her childhood and actually affect her character in a meaningful way.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

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Tyrphanax said:

Considering The Clone Wars is canon and considering what we learned about Obi-Wan and women during that series, I like to think he wouldn’t have any children.

Trying to keep spoilers to a minimum there.

This is a spoiler thread and I have no intention of watching the animated shows, please spill the beans. Or PM me. I need to know.

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Lord Haseo said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

Lord Haseo said:

I prefer Rey Kenobi

Why?

Mostly the continuance of the family motif but in this case the main protagonist wouldn’t be a Skywalker.

To continue the rehash tradition and expand it on trilogy level? If EP8 reveals that Rey is related to someone we already know, this will be downright ridiculous.

真実

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Handman said:

Tyrphanax said:

Considering The Clone Wars is canon and considering what we learned about Obi-Wan and women during that series, I like to think he wouldn’t have any children.

Trying to keep spoilers to a minimum there.

This is a spoiler thread and I have no intention of watching the animated shows, please spill the beans. Or PM me. I need to know.

PM sent!

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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imperialscum said:

To continue the rehash tradition and expand it on trilogy level? If EP8 reveals that Rey is related to someone we already know, this will be downright ridiculous.

So if she’s related to a pre-established character, that immediately makes it a total rehash?
whut

What, a man builds a giant mound of dirt in his house and you aren’t entertained?

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imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

Lord Haseo said:

I prefer Rey Kenobi

Why?

Mostly the continuance of the family motif but in this case the main protagonist wouldn’t be a Skywalker.

To continue the rehash tradition and expand it on trilogy level? If EP8 reveals that Rey is related to someone we already know, this will be downright ridiculous.

Yep…rehashing elements from the OT which was primarily built on rehashing rehashed stories that have been told in different ways throughout mankind.

Also they could have Rey learn who her parents are in IX and in a completely different way from how Luke learned in V.

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SwissArmyTin said:

imperialscum said:

To continue the rehash tradition and expand it on trilogy level? If EP8 reveals that Rey is related to someone we already know, this will be downright ridiculous.

So if she’s related to a pre-established character, that immediately makes it a total rehash?
whut

I hate how there are lightsabers in TFA. Total rehash.

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Lord Haseo said:

Also they could have Rey learn who her parents are in IX and in a completely different way from how Luke learned in V.

Sure. In your mind you can think that. The details are details.

真実

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imperialscum said:

Lord Haseo said:

Also they could have Rey learn who her parents are in IX and in a completely different way from how Luke learned in V.

Sure. In your mind you can think that. The details are details.

Nice rebuttal.

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Except it was ridiculous in ROTJ, too. Had “The other” not been wasted as “Another Skywalker, your twin sister Leia” in ROTJ, and just let it hang, Rey could have taken on that role. I would find that much more fulfilling.

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Essentially snip out all the “Leia is my sister” bits in ROTJ and add the “There is another” line into that dream sequence in TFA and that’s pretty much all you can do to make that happen. A lot of effort for something small.

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As I have thought about this more, I’d like to take a quick stab at the whole “fan service” complaint that is often thrown at the Force Awakens.

When re-watching the Prequel trilogy, it made me realize how awful all the shoe-horned fan service moments that were in those films. Like the following:

-why in the hell does Anakin construct 3PO?
-why in the hell does R2 have to be the droid that saves the ship?
-why in the hell do we need child boba fett?
-why in the hell do all the clones have to be cloned from Boba Fett?
-why in the hell is Chewie there with Yoda?

I could go on all day. But the fanservice in the PT shrinks the universe and makes everything feel so implausible. The Force Awakens just has fun lines of dialogue that throw back to things like the Kessel run. Not to mention the well executed reveal of the falcon which was fan-servicey but will last as a genuinely joyful and charming moment.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

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Handman said:

Essentially snip out all the “Leia is my sister” bits in ROTJ and add the “There is another” line into that dream sequence in TFA and that’s pretty much all you can do to make that happen. A lot of effort for something small.

If Leia has real Jedi skills in Ep 8, this idea might not work as well.

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