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The Bad Batch (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * SPOILERS * — Page 13

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MORC said:

Well, the third season is coming in February 21.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa5zeHdSwdQ
I wish I could say I’m excited since I really enjoyed the first and second seasons, but Star Wars quality has been going up and down so much lately I don’t wanna set myself for disappointment.

I’m not sure how I feel about the final season after watching that trailer. I do like the show, but also wish Star Wars would stop resurrecting long dead characters.

“Somehow, Ventress Returned”.

more on that: https://www.starwars.com/news/the-bad-batch-season-3-trailer
 

“We love Asajj Ventress. She’s a character that we’ve been wanting to tell more stories about,” Brad Rau, supervising director and one of the executive producers of the series, tells StarWars.com. And he makes clear that her return will honor prior tales, including the book in which the character apparently perished. “We don’t want to spoil anything, but want fans to know that any new storytelling with Ventress will align with the events of Star Wars: Dark Disciple.”

I guess we’ll have to wait and see. Although Lucasfilm says a lot about honoring canon or “prior tales”, but then often rips right through it shortly after.

 

3 episodes air on February 21

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Keyan Farlander said:
I’m not sure how I feel about the final season after watching that trailer. I do like the show, but also wish Star Wars would stop resurrecting long dead characters.

“Somehow, Ventress Returned”.

I’m worried they will pull a

[spoilers]

“somehow, Tech returned” since they didn’t show his body on that episode.

That would be an extremely cheap move.

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MORC said:

Keyan Farlander said:
I’m not sure how I feel about the final season after watching that trailer. I do like the show, but also wish Star Wars would stop resurrecting long dead characters.

“Somehow, Ventress Returned”.

I’m worried they will pull a

[spoilers]

“somehow, Tech returned” since they didn’t show his body on that episode.

That would be an extremely cheap move.

Yes! I was kind of half expecting that to happen. I hope they don’t, but if they did, maybe they’ll save it for a few episodes in?

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Looks pretty good, hopefully they keep up the consistency. Ventress should probably have been used elsewhere though instead of having to share part of this storyline.

What’s her shoulder emblem?

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I’m excited about this. Season 2 was a big improvement on season 1, and season 3 looks to be even better, also the Ventress reveal has gotten me hyped for the season. Personally, I think the CG animated series are the most consistent branch of the Star Wars franchise. Sure they all start off not being all that well regarded, partially because of it being targeted more towards kids, and partially because of some weaker storytelling, then they get more mature and the more child-friendly aspects start to diminish, and then the final seasons have some of the best material in the franchise. Hopefully, the Bad Batch continues down this trend and continues the improvements made by season 2.

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So I just watched the first 3 Bad Batch season 3 episodes.

Despite being a cartoon aimed at kids, and despite having Dave Filoni’s name attached to it, there’s something about this show that sets it apart from the usual recent non-Andor live action Star Wars crap. Like… this show is actually written pretty competently, more often than not.

I’m so used to watching crap like the Mandalorian or whatever, where very little thought is put into plot mechanics or the logistics of how characters get from A to B. Characters often just appear wherever the plot needs them to be. Characters often conveniently forget previously established abilities. Characters often take actions that seem incoherent or questionable. Limitations are vague or undefined - characters often just “wing it” and everything works out, because the bad guys are impossibly stupid and the good guys are impossibly lucky.

But the Bad Batch is often written like an actual story with actual thought put into plot mechanics. There’s often proper set ups and pay-offs, characters know their limitations, and thought is often put into the logistics of the action scenes.

I won’t really spoil anything, but there’s an episode where a character has to escape from an Imperial facility. Sounds really cliché, right? We’ve seen this 1,000 times. I’m sure they just easily bonk some Stormtroopers on the head and walk out the front door, right? Well, no. In fact, a lot of time is spent setting up how well guarded and secure this facility is. They spend an entire episode just showing daily life in the facility. It really does seem pretty impossible to escape - it’s portrayed as a realistically secure facility with sentries, bio-scans and force fields limiting access to different areas of the facility. When the escape finally happens, the protagonists exploit a feature of the facility that was set up well beforehand and actually makes sense, and they also have help from someone with higher security clearance. It’s like the writers actually thought hard about this, and tried to come up with a way for the protagonists to escape without necessarily making Imperial security look completely ridiculous. (They should have just put on a trench-coat and a fake mustache and waltzed out the front door, like in the Kenobi show.)

I mean, the show isn’t even that good. It’s like a 6.5 out of 10, mostly. It’s certainly no Andor. It still suffers a bit from pointless filler episodes. But I’m just pleasantly surprised to see actual competent writing in Star Wars these days.

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Channel72 said:

So I just watched the first 3 Bad Batch season 3 episodes.

But the Bad Batch is often written like an actual story with actual thought put into plot mechanics. There’s often proper set ups and pay-offs, characters know their limitations, and thought is often put into the logistics of the action scenes.

Scary how even basic fundamental aspects of storytelling can lift a series, get the viewer interested and engaged. This has been something I think has improved a lot on Bad Batch, as Filoni’s involvement has diminished (as he concentrates on live action content) and Jennifer Corbett, Matt Michnovetz and Brad Rau have come to the fore.

I won’t really spoil anything, but there’s an episode where a character has to escape from an Imperial facility. Sounds really cliché, right? We’ve seen this 1,000 times. I’m sure they just easily bonk some Stormtroopers on the head and walk out the front door, right? Well, no. In fact, a lot of time is spent setting up how well guarded and secure this facility is. They spend an entire episode just showing daily life in the facility. It really does seem pretty impossible to escape - it’s portrayed as a realistically secure facility with sentries, bio-scans and force fields limiting access to different areas of the facility. When the escape finally happens, the protagonists exploit a feature of the facility that was set up well beforehand and actually makes sense, and they also have help from someone with higher security clearance. It’s like the writers actually thought hard about this, and tried to come up with a way for the protagonists to escape without necessarily making Imperial security look completely ridiculous. (They should have just put on a trench-coat and a fake mustache and waltzed out the front door, like in the Kenobi show.)

I mean, the show isn’t even that good. It’s like a 6.5 out of 10, mostly. It’s certainly no Andor. It still suffers a bit from pointless filler episodes. But I’m just pleasantly surprised to see actual competent writing in Star Wars these days.

I’ll be back for more of this season. It was a solid start to the season, good set up, and thankfully this:

no bringing back Tech from the end of last season. I really hope more characters in Star Wars stay dead when killed off.

I think it’ll be interesting to see a “must watch episodes guide” to this series after it ends; without the filler and aimless episodes in season 1 and early season 2. Or a strong stripped-down fan edit of the series.

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

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Channel72 said:

I mean, the show isn’t even that good. It’s like a 6.5 out of 10, mostly. It’s certainly no Andor. It still suffers a bit from pointless filler episodes. But I’m just pleasantly surprised to see actual competent writing in Star Wars these days.

Yeah, I agree. But the show is 6.5/10 mostly because of the filler content, that makes the show weak. If this series is just the good content, it could be 8.5, or even 9, for what it is proposed. And I’m glad this isn’t like Andor 😄

Caston said:

I think it’ll be interesting to see a “must watch episodes guide” to this series after it ends; without the filler and aimless episodes in season 1 and early season 2. Or a strong stripped-down fan edit of the series.

100% this. Smudger9 season 1 edit of Bad Batch is really good.

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Lol… filler?

Can we drop that term please? This show is one of the most consistently written and fun Star Wars shows ever produced.

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

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Seems like people are into it, I’ll be ducking out to avoid spoilers.

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DZ-330 said:

Lol… filler?

Can we drop that term please? This show is one of the most consistently written and fun Star Wars shows ever produced.

Season 2 was about 60% filler, jus sayin

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yoshif8tures said:

Season 2 was about 60% filler, jus sayin

Please define filler for me?

Because nowadays it seems like a blanket term people use to apply to a show that they pretend that they like even though they only like the first, middle, and last episode of that show.

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

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DZ-330 said:

Please define filler for me?

I mean, these streaming serialized shows usually have some overarching “season-level” plot or through-line that begins in the first episode and wraps up (or significantly advances) in the season finale. Individual episodes may advance the season-level plot to varying degrees. “Filler episodes” are episodes that barely advance the season-level plot, or don’t advance it at all. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Even if an episode doesn’t advance the season-level plot, it can still be used for valuable character development.

But in practice, at least with Disney+ Star Wars, the non-plot-advancing episodes can be a bit frustrating, because of Disney’s weekly release schedule and the relatively few episodes per season. The show grabs your attention with dangling plot threads, but then filler episodes force you to wait yet another week for any additional plot advancement. Of course, this is subjective and context-dependent: filler episodes can be enjoyable, especially if the show isn’t structured around some urgent season-level plot. Arguably, before serialized story-telling become fashionable, most TV shows were just all “filler episodes” - and nobody complained. I didn’t really mind the “side quest” episodes back in Mandalorian Season 1 either, because the whole show had this laid back episodic vibe. But as a show progresses and the “season-level” plot becomes more well-defined and urgent, and starts merging with larger Star Wars narratives, the non-plot advancing episodes can really be a strain.

Also, with Bad Batch in particular, I think the season-level plot-advancing episodes are just orders of magnitude more compelling than the non-plot advancing ones. Season 3 so far arguably had one “filler” episode. It was okay, I guess. It was mostly the protagonists running away from giant tentacle monsters, for the sake of a very minor plot-advancing clue at the end. (Although they did introduce those young clones, so maybe that will be significant later.) Regardless, the plot-advancing episodes are just in an entirely different league in terms of quality.

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The new episode was a banger. For me, for now, 1 weak and 3 good episodes.

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Halfway through this season and I’ve really enjoyed them all so far.

Good double episode today as well, and find myself actually looking forward for more.
 

Season 3 spoilers:

Two things that don’t sit right is…

  1. none of the clones not knowing what an “M-Count” is, or what the M stands for? Surely they served alongside the Jedi long enough to have heard about that? Or there would be some reference found in whatever intel or information they had on the Jedi in their profiles? It is only a small thing, but it appears a little contrived, and kind of a stretch.
     

  2. The use of the Republic Commandos. A pity they are so underdeveloped, and not like the original RCs of the 2004-2009 multimedia project. So far they are retooled to be “a cool nod” to something past, but nothing more, which is such a pity and waste. (Plus unfortunately the RC MMP never got to finish their own story before the 2008 The Clone Wars film & series fucked over the previously established canon, lore, and stories, especially in regards to the Clones.) From someone who still loves the 501st Journals!

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

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Solid season so far, and pleased to see they didn’t bring back a certain character from the end of season 2 to this season.

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Episode 3x09 spoiler:

“Somehow, Ventress returned.”
 

https://www.starwars.com/news/bad-batch-interview-nika-futterman-asajj-ventress

No explanation is given as to why Ventress is now alive after dying and being buried in Dark Disciple. The article does say she will return in “future content”, likely in Ahsoka or Tales of the Jedi?:

“Ventress is one of our all-time favorite characters,” Rau says. “So, when Dave brought up the idea of bringing her into The Bad Batch, we were beyond excited.”

“We had several discussions about the book and how her story could continue,” Corbett explains. “How she survived will be revealed in future content, but for this story, we were thrilled to include her and explore her unique connection to, and compassion for, Omega.”

 
As much as I enjoyed seeing Ventress again this did feel like a cheap move to me. Waving away any explanation of her return from the dead as “a good question, for another time”. It also devalues the stakes in modern Star Wars even further. Sacrifices in stories have no meaning when there are no consequences. So they bring back another cool character from the back catalogue of the dead because they can’t think up a new one, when their simple “go to” is relying on fan service and memberberries to continue the stories instead of creating something new.

and

Ventress’ death in the 2015 novel Dark Disciple:

img

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It’s a book that Disney made “canon” at the time, correct?

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Fan_edit_fan said:

It’s a book that Disney made “canon” at the time, correct?

Yes, from 2015. Although that hasn’t stopped certain creatives trampling all over the new 2014+ canon for no real reason.
 

Two episodes this week. I really hope we get back on form with them, as last week’s story was a contrived keyjangling mess to me.
 

Episode 10+11 Airing Edit: both were pretty good, and looking forward to next week’s episode.

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

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Disney+ show-runners obviously feel free to ignore the post-2014 “canon” books. After abolishing the EU, Disney initially claimed that all new Star Wars media (books, movies, shows, video games, etc.) would fit into one unified, consistent canon. But in practice, Disney behaves as if the old Lucasfilm tiered canon levels (G-canon, C-canon, etc.) still exist. Essentially this means all the books/comics/games are a lower-level canon that is only valid when it doesn’t contradict the higher-level canon of the TV shows and movies.

I mean, officially it’s all canon. But you know it’s not.

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Channel72 said:

Disney+ show-runners obviously feel free to ignore the post-2014 “canon” books. After abolishing the EU, Disney initially claimed that all new Star Wars media (books, movies, shows, video games, etc.) would fit into one unified, consistent canon. But in practice, Disney behaves as if the old Lucasfilm tiered canon levels (G-canon, C-canon, etc.) still exist. Essentially this means all the books/comics/games are a lower-level canon that is only valid when it doesn’t contradict the higher-level canon of the TV shows and movies.

I mean, officially it’s all canon. But you know it’s not.

Yep:

An Index Thread for The Expanded Universe said:

Lucasfilm clarifies the future of the EU (a 2014 thread; re the 25th April Lucasfilm announcement about the EU; Legends & Canon)

The Star Wars Expanded Universe: Past, Present, & Future (2014 official Star Wars ‘Legends/Canon’ announcement video)

“We now have a story department that so that there truly can be one consistent narrative - and that’s always been the dream. I think the idea of aligning the content is really fantastic and exciting opportunity that no other fictional universe could even support. We’re going to be able to bring fans a unified vision in a way that we’ve never done before. And I think it’s a also sacred trust to be invited to be telling stories inside this universe because it’s so precious to people, and I understand because it’s precious to me.” - Lucasfilm VIPs.

Why should people give their time, energy and money for Star Wars material when it will very likely be altered, retconned or written over some time later, and in doing ignoring their own rules they set in place just some 10 years ago? Much of the time it is done somewhat needlessly, and at other times mainly for the memberberries or empty fan service, leaving us to question just why it wad done in the first place (Ventress; without any reason given for her return to life, especially).

Where is the gripping immersion or layered worldbuilding, something that Star Wars was renowned for at one time, in that?

If that is not a big thing for certain fans, then okay. Cool. But why bother with meaningless claims on “one consistent narrative” and “unified vision” when they acknowledge the stories are “so precious to people”. I see on here and other places discussing Star Wars that “head canon” is becoming more prevalent to sidestep the retcons made to canon or even legends (often made by Filoni for his substandard key-jangling material).

No wonder most of the people I know have stopped buying the books, comics, games, and won’t subscribe to Disney+ unless for a short burst to binge actual quality material like Andor.

 

Back to The Bad Batch:

Only two episodes to go. Spoiler for Episode 13.

I’m not really feeling the ‘Omega in prison’ once more segments. Probably because we’ve seen this a number of times before, even at the start of this very season. The parts with Clones continues to be the strong point. I hope they nail the landing. And that others are also enjoying this season, overall.

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

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Channel72 said:

I mean, officially it’s all canon. But you know it’s not.

Officially, it’s all make-believe.
I’ve never understood the power people hand over to Lucasfilm\Disney. Watch what you like, ignore the rest.

For the record, I’m not addressing you specifically. Just a general statement on how some people really struggle to reconcile the stories Lucas, Lucasfilm, and Disney, and various authors have created over the years.

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Anchorhead said:

Channel72 said:

I mean, officially it’s all canon. But you know it’s not.

Officially, it’s all make-believe.
I’ve never understood the power people hand over to Lucasfilm\Disney. Watch what you like, ignore the rest.

For the record, I’m not addressing you specifically. Just a general statement on how some people really struggle to reconcile the stories Lucas, Lucasfilm, and Disney, and various authors have created over the years.

It’s a universal thing - not specific to Lucasfilm. The idea of “canonical” stories versus apocryphal “fan-fiction” goes back to the Bible. In that case, “canonical content” implied official approval of the Church, as opposed to the Disney/Lucasfilm story-group - but it’s the same idea. Whether it be religious adherents, Tolkien fans, or Star Wars fans, people care about “canon” because they care about experiencing a shared (fictional) reality that other fans/followers can agree is “valid” and actually “happened” as part of the larger on-going story. If you throw out canon, you’re left with something bordering on solipsism - isolated individual fandoms.

Of course, I actually agree with you. The concept of “canon”, especially as applied to something everyone agrees is fictional, is kind of stupid. It helps in terms of creating a shared experience that has agreed-upon boundaries for the purpose of fan enjoyment and discussion. But the downside is that really shitty content always ends up in the canon. For me, I like to consider the OT as canonical, and Andor as “deutero-canonical” (to borrow a stupid term from the Catholic Church). Everything else is pseudepigrapha and fan-fiction.