The Acolyte (live action series set in The High Republic era) - a general discussion thread — Page 13

I loved this show

Channel72 said:

NFBisms said:

On the contrary (and I know this won’t move the needle for you), something I actually kind of appreciated here was the effort this went to show the Jedi not as space cops. I think that angle gets overplayed a bit; it’s easy to villainize them in that lens, but that’s hardly the point. This has a more productive distillation of the subtext.

Ehh… I don’t know. I haven’t watched the whole show yet, but I remember in Episode 2 they literally have the Jedi in a helicopter-like ship hovering in the sky at night with blinding floodlights beaming down, screaming things like “This is the Jedi! You are under arrest!” over a megaphone. I really could not tell the difference at that point between the Jedi and the LAPD.

The Jedi in this show did more “cop-like” things than they ever did in the Prequels, like arresting people, interrogating suspects, etc. While we often joke that the Prequels basically turned the Jedi into glorified space cops, I don’t think the Prequel Jedi ever actually arrested anyone, except when Mace tried unsuccessfully to arrest Palpatine. The closest they come to cop-like behavior in the Prequels, I think, is when Anakin starts yelling at that shape-shifting assassin outside a nightclub in Attack of the Clones. But for the most part, the Prequel Jedi were portrayed as diplomats, negotiators and advisors in The Phantom Menace, and then as bodyguards, soldiers and Generals in the other two films. In Attack of the Clones Obi-Wan took on the role of a detective when investigating the assassination attempt on Amidala, but he comes across more like a Private Investigator or FBI agent than a police officer.

I now want to see a parody show where the Jedi have to cruise around the Galaxy and show up to random people’s houses to settle civil or domestic disturbances. In the first Episode, Jedi Master Plo Koon and his new Padawan respond to a 10-16 at the intersection of Dune Street and Kerner Plaza in South Central Mos Eisley, and talk down a meth-crazed Jawa who became violent after a Twi’lek that lives upstairs complained about loud cantina-band music blasting all night.

I guess to rephrase, I think the show tries to emphasize Jedi As Cops are not The Problem™, but merely a symptom of the Order’s larger failings - an inevitable consequence of the pressures put on them, but not how they are supposed to be/structured to be. The string of murders pushes our characters into an investigative role, yes, but pointedly in this era, under the council and Senate’s noses. Sol and co. are basically rogue. And it’s especially something that they are not equipped to handle [yet]. Every Jedi we meet in this show is book-ish more than warrior.

Not to mention they fail wholly at finding leads, making arrests, or like, not all dying.

I think Headland is being too “clever” for her own good in trying to create the predictable associations early, only to “subvert” them later. The fumbled Rashomon thing for example is seeing the events on Brendok in different perspectives, and the only real difference / new information I can gather from episode 3 and 7’s depictions is the emphasis that the Jedi didn’t come to the planet to enforce law. That every way they fucked up wasn’t because the Jedi are inherently cops, but because Torbin and Sol were being a bit much. What the Jedi really want to do is meditate on the Force and scan for midichlorians in plants and stuff.

(And to tangent off of that, the whole Rashomon thing they try to do here is incorrectly implemented. The whole point of that device being used in the original movie is about the unknowability of the events that transpired! Everyone having their own truths, no one being right or wrong. It’s not about incomplete or hidden information like it is here! But I digress.)

NFBisms said:

Channel72 said:

NFBisms said:

On the contrary (and I know this won’t move the needle for you), something I actually kind of appreciated here was the effort this went to show the Jedi not as space cops. I think that angle gets overplayed a bit; it’s easy to villainize them in that lens, but that’s hardly the point. This has a more productive distillation of the subtext.

Ehh… I don’t know. I haven’t watched the whole show yet, but I remember in Episode 2 they literally have the Jedi in a helicopter-like ship hovering in the sky at night with blinding floodlights beaming down, screaming things like “This is the Jedi! You are under arrest!” over a megaphone. I really could not tell the difference at that point between the Jedi and the LAPD.

The Jedi in this show did more “cop-like” things than they ever did in the Prequels, like arresting people, interrogating suspects, etc. While we often joke that the Prequels basically turned the Jedi into glorified space cops, I don’t think the Prequel Jedi ever actually arrested anyone, except when Mace tried unsuccessfully to arrest Palpatine. The closest they come to cop-like behavior in the Prequels, I think, is when Anakin starts yelling at that shape-shifting assassin outside a nightclub in Attack of the Clones. But for the most part, the Prequel Jedi were portrayed as diplomats, negotiators and advisors in The Phantom Menace, and then as bodyguards, soldiers and Generals in the other two films. In Attack of the Clones Obi-Wan took on the role of a detective when investigating the assassination attempt on Amidala, but he comes across more like a Private Investigator or FBI agent than a police officer.

I now want to see a parody show where the Jedi have to cruise around the Galaxy and show up to random people’s houses to settle civil or domestic disturbances. In the first Episode, Jedi Master Plo Koon and his new Padawan respond to a 10-16 at the intersection of Dune Street and Kerner Plaza in South Central Mos Eisley, and talk down a meth-crazed Jawa who became violent after a Twi’lek that lives upstairs complained about loud cantina-band music blasting all night.

I guess to rephrase, I think the show tries to emphasize Jedi As Cops are not The Problem™, but merely a symptom of the Order’s larger failings - an inevitable consequence of the pressures put on them, but not how they are supposed to be/structured to be. The string of murders pushes our characters into an investigative role, yes, but pointedly in this era, under the council and Senate’s noses. Sol and co. are basically rogue. And it’s especially something that they are not equipped to handle [yet]. Every Jedi we meet in this show is book-ish more than warrior.

Not to mention they fail wholly at finding leads, making arrests, or like, not all dying.

I think Headland is being too “clever” for her own good in trying to create the predictable associations early, only to “subvert” them later. The fumbled Rashomon thing for example is seeing the events on Brendok in different perspectives, and the only real difference / new information I can gather from episode 3 and 7’s depictions is the emphasis that the Jedi didn’t come to the planet to enforce law. That every way they fucked up wasn’t because the Jedi are inherently cops, but because Torbin and Sol were being a bit much. What the Jedi really want to do is meditate on the Force and scan for midichlorians in plants and stuff.

(And to tangent off of that, the whole Rashomon thing they try to do here is incorrectly implemented. The whole point of that device being used in the original movie is about the unknowability of the events that transpired! Everyone having their own truths, no one being right or wrong. It’s not about incomplete or hidden information like it is here! But I digress.)

The poor implementation was so confounding. I thought there was something supposedly “clever” going on in places (because otherwise there wasn’t a point) but then nothing was clever. How Qimir claimed killing a Jedi without a weapon would strike the Jedi like nothing else could. But convincing Torbin to kill himself wasn’t good enough. Turns out it was just “use the Force.” Which…why is that not a weapon? Why keep /use the Force/ a mystery from the audience and from Mae? Maybe her line about it being “impossible” was supposed to echo Luke’s complaint about lifting the X-Wing but it falls totally flat without a lesson being set up and explored.

Or the way the witches claimed they don’t “use the Force” but then blatantly do. Or Qimir being the Sith. Or how all the witches died. Some confusion could have been avoided if the witches had gotten an electrician in there.

Most of all, a major point of the show was depicting the Jedi as flawed. As you say, it was more about the particular individuals who didn’t act much like Jedi. They were overtly flouting Jedi ethics. Not even in a “from a certain point of view” application.

News just now broke that the series will not be renewed for a second season.

https://deadline.com/2024/08/the-acolyte-canceled-no-season-2-star-wars-disney-plus-1236044233/

not surprising this show hit another low and the discussion around this being woke or just bad or good is kinda useless now
it was never worth a shot in the first place the team behind never put effort in it but now is just beating a dead horse

Spineless, craven decision IMO.

😄

Finally Star Wars got their spine back! Brave decision!

This is a good day for Star Wars. First acknowledge the problem - and then course correct.

“This will begin to make things right”.

BedeHistory731 said:

NFBisms said:

Spineless, craven decision IMO.

Absolutely. It’s just giving the not-so-nice side of the fandom more ammo to blame the show’s issues on culture war BS instead of it just being an overpriced yet poorly-written piece.

Also, I’m pretty sure it means the High Republic stuff is on the way out in favor of more Skywalker-era stuff.

I don’t even really care about that (we can ignore them), and honestly it’s a decision that does make sense. I think this show, in a healthier, better managed property, doesn’t even get made as it is in the first place.

But they did make the show. The ol’ cynical, views and money business shit guiding the boat doesn’t become less of a bummer just because I didn’t think the show was great. Shows’ first seasons are exactly where they used to find their feet. Imagine if Breaking Bad didn’t get the chance it had. The Clone Wars. Irregardless of the potential, it always sucks to see that studios won’t trust their creators outside the equation of money. They need to invest in ideas, back creative when it counts, stand by them, help them. Let a rough first season develop into something good. Build an audience

And you’re right, The Acolyte is the first big thing in the Disney acquisition that ventured outside of the common conceits and eras, where do you think they’ll retreat back into? this isn’t just about headland’s show

here’s to another decade of buckethead and green baby, gimme that filoni slop

Now I’d love a fanedit of this that takes it down to a 2 hour mystery/thriller and removes all of the “we are getting a second season” assumptions.

The real issue here, and the main issue with Disney as a whole it seems, they will never just come out and said it was a poorly written show that was badly paced and shouldn’t have been greenlight to begin with.

Disney also does not convey that message to their writers/staff, who then go on social media and blast certain sections of the fandom as racist and sexist for not liking their story. If Disney keeps failing to fix the problem at home and firing these people that cannot write a decent and well-paced story and replacing them with competent people, then we’ll just keep getting a new The Acolyte each year.

Yes, there are racists and sexists in every fandom, but, some people might not have liked your work for other reasons… mainly, it not being that well written or it doesn’t clearly convey the message it is trying to tell.

What is the reason for making this content? And if it isn’t a compelling one, then back to the beginning and start again.

I just don’t think we can use these subjective words so definitively and then make up arbitrary diagnoses from that. It’s dialectics 101 guys

You’re right, terms like “good,” “well-paced” and “competent” are subjective.

But that doesn’t mean they can’t be evaluated.

“Well-paced” usually refers to a story that keeps the audience engaged without dragging or rushing, and “competent” writing means the plot and characters are coherent and compelling. These aren’t arbitrary standards; they’re widely recognized in storytelling. And when Disney’s content doesn’t meet these standards, it can affect viewership and revenue. So, while subjective, these qualities still have real-world implications for the business.

Double post

DZ-330 said:

You’re right, terms like “good,” “well-paced” and “competent” are subjective.

But that doesn’t mean they can’t be evaluated.

“Well-paced” usually refers to a story that keeps the audience engaged without dragging or rushing, and “competent” writing means the plot and characters are coherent and compelling. These aren’t arbitrary standards; they’re widely recognized in storytelling. And when Disney’s content doesn’t meet these standards, it can affect viewership and revenue. So, while subjective, these qualities still have real-world implications for the business.

ok define dragging, rushing, coherent, compelling, etc

I realize this is annoying but I truly think whatever thesis you can make from this kind of thing falls apart under any kind of scrutiny. I’m not saying things can’t be evaluated or that I even disagree about the Acolyte, but trying to speak on some kind of objective corporate tip, from your own purely personal engagement with the content’s quality is arbitrary. Your opinion is not invalid, you’re just not going to discover an insight worth saying out loud.

“Make good things, not bad things!”

Mocata said:

Disney never had a spine to start with and it doesn’t care about these current day ethical quandaries and diversity inclusions. People like to argue over it but it’s not true. This is a soul-less corporation that was about to tell some guy his wife dying in their park recently was her fault because she signed a D+ user agreement. They just want money, and they thought these projects were a way to make it. When the viewers and subs take a hit then we see shows getting cancelled (or removed). That’s all there is to it; numbers in a share holder meeting and money spent versus money earned.

☝️