Well, that's adding way too much for the context of the scene, I think. You need to get the planet blown up and then cut to Ben on the Falcon. I think anything more than a few seconds extra and it's too long. And I don't believe the Death Star can fire many times in quick succession. A weapon that powerful surely must take some time to recharge. That's what happens in Jedi, otherwise the entire Rebel fleet would have been wiped out in a minute.
Wouldn't the sudden arrival of something as big as the Death Star into the Alderaan have noticable tidal and atmospheric effects?
That alone would create panic.
I'm sure it wouldn't have any effect. The Death Star is, what, 160 km across? It's unlikely to cause any disruption whatsoever to the planet. Our moon is approx 2,500 miles across and phenomenally heavier than the Death Star and that doesn't create massive tidal pull. Sure, it is the major factor in our oceans, but the lunar tidal pull is not at all violent, relative to other such influences in planetary systems. So the Death Star is unlikely to have any noticeable effect, and even less given the very short amount of time it's near Alderaan.
Yes, I suppose so and it's mostly hollow compared to rocky moons which are much more dense (therefore less mass per exciting space opera volume unit) but if Star Wars is as much Science Fiction as something like When Worlds Collide it might make for good drama.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
I'm not sure about that. There is allowing for the unknown possibilities of advanced technology in sci-fi, but I don't think people should be expected to put aside what we already know to be empirical facts just to excuse a set-piece in a movie. I mean, sure, the Death Star is colossal, but it's only a space station, made of metal alloys and other manufactured materials. And at 160km across, it's definitely heavy, but I'd like to think most of us know it's nothing next to a planet, or even an average moon. Some people seem to think it's okay to overlook the known laws of physics just because it's sci-fi, which I think is absurd, to be honest. I think requiring viewers to leave their brains at the door is one of the biggest insults a movie can give.
Star Wars isn't really Science Fiction though, it's space fantasy, Sinbad with laser swords.
If anything it's less Science Fiction than something like Krull.
As a compendium of lots of genres and the set pieces having a When World's Collide catalclysm before the beam hits is no more out of place than sound in space and all the other lapses in Sci-Fi realism.
The only real consideration is does it detract from the pace and over all impact of the story and there is a really good arguement for that.
Yes, but Alderaan is a planet, probably Earth-size. The Death Star isn't even twice the diameter of Los Angeles, and it's a hell of a lot less dense. It's nothing like having another planet collide or near-impact, and it's really not the same as having sound in space. The sound is there for the benefit of the audience watching a movie, it is not presented as being present within the text. There is no suggestion that the laws of physics operate differently in this galaxy, and why would they? Technology is one thing, physics is another. Just because Star Wars is a fantasy, a space opera, doesn't mean it abandons all scientific knowledge. If it did that, the audience wouldn't be able to understand the universe it's in. I think having what is, for all intents and purposes, just a big space station cause some sort of gravimetric influence is over the top.
Anyway, the ultimate consideration is whether it works in the scene, and for the reasons I mention above and the interruption of momentum, it doesn't.
yeah but think just a little extra can tip the scales
John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/
Don't forget that sometimes less is more
No arugment there. A Christmas tree with too many ornaments will not stand pretty if at all.
i meant that adding the death star to the "how many moons alderaan has" MAY "SLIGHTLY" mess with the planet (not very much to be particularly (spell?) noticible but enough to be an omen of the destruction to follow)
John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/
TK99 said:But as for emotional impact for the scene...
...Leia's face her face fixed in shock and mouth open and eye's welling up in tears but only one rolls down her cheek. It's simple, [and] powerful... [It] would have to be cut with Obi-wan's look of shock too at sensing the death of Alderaan.
Just something I quickly put together to illustrate TK99's idea.
This sort of popped into my head as I was thinking about how the scene could be done.
Star Wars Episode XXX: Erica Strikes Back
If you want Nice, go to France
Adywan:
"Don't forget that sometimes less is more"
Indeed so, and that's why I won't be overdoing anything. An extended explosion, for sure, but beyond that, I don't think the scene warrants it or could carry it.
And Fishmanlee and Bingowings, the Death Star would have virtually no gravimetric impact on a body as large as Alderaan, so even if such effects were achievable within the scene, the reason for them is moot. And that whole idea is far too complex for Star Wars. It might work on Star Trek, but Star Wars is too "real world" for that sort of thing.
I got to thinking about the scene in ANH when Luke is cleaning the droids and accidentally triggers Leia's message. In all GL releases, the audio from the message is out of sync from the hologram. This was thought to be a movie mistake, but then I remembered that 3PO mentions that the restraining bolt on R2 is "short-circuiting his recording system." The restraining bolt could be responsible for out-of-sync audio in that scene, and thus the mistake may not be a mistake at all.
But it's out of sync for the first few shots, then isn't anymore - definitely a mistake.
ChainsawAsh said:But it's out of sync for the first few shots, then isn't anymore - definitely a mistake.
Really? I thought it was synced up in the first few shots, and then the audio goes out of sync. At least that's how I remember it from the movie.
It's one or the other, I really don't remember. Either way, it's not consistent.
ChainsawAsh said:It's one or the other, I really don't remember. Either way, it's not consistent.
Well either way...the point that I was making was that the restraining bolt on R2 messed up the play back feature in his recording system, and that it may have also thrown the audio out of sync at some point during the playback.
I wonder if anyone ever noticed that Leia puts the data disc into a slot directly underneath R2's eye, yet Luke activates R2's message by fiddling with the slit his head slides on.
“You people must realize that the public owns you for life, and when you’re dead, you’ll all be in commercials dancing with vacuum cleaners.”
– Homer Simpson
Darth Venal said:I've added a few more frames to the Alderaan sequence, just mock-up frames of the sort of effect I'd like to achieve with the shockwave across blasting the surface.
I would like to enhance the deleted scenes, very much so, but that will take time and they are never going to be anything like DVD quality, so I may keep them for a seperate workprint and use the new mattes for my Special Edition where I'm trying to keep everything the best possible quality. You're right, that SE painting of Ben's hut doesn't really work. Sure, it has more detail than the shot in the original, but it just isn't a very good painting.
I just notice one problem with the shot.
No glowing plantary core fragments.
Monroville said:I wonder if anyone ever noticed that Leia puts the data disc into a slot directly underneath R2's eye, yet Luke activates R2's message by fiddling with the slit his head slides on.
Maybe R2 has a USB drive and luke just pressed play LOL.
"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas
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>> Can anything else be done to ANH after Adywan? <<
... Yes: the same on blue-ray !
I think this topic is crazy. :)
The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.
I agree with ABC: this topic is nuts.
Star Wars the original is practically perfect as is, even with minor fx mistakes, and messing with it further only hurts the movie. The most anyone should ever have done with it visually is remove matte lines and garbage boxes and so forth. Nothing else, please!
TK99:I just notice one problem with the shot.
No glowing plantary core fragments.
Well, two things to remember. This is a snapshot of about two frames per second of the actual sequence; the green energy dissipates during/after the explosion, so that glow is meant to be gone.
Plus, and I presume you mean no glowing planetary core fragments as in a molten core; well, you're incorrectly assuming that all planets have a molten core. That's really not true. We have eight planets and currently five dwarf planets in our solar system, and the majority of them do not have a molten core like the Earth. So there is absolutely no reason to assume that Alderaan should have one, and hence, if there are problems with the sequence, that isn't one of them.
I could add glowing fragments but it would take a massive amount of time, and for the reasons stated it isn't necessary. And also, there is the risk of over-complicating FX sequences. A New Hope doesn't have very complex FX sequences, and the last thing I'd want to do is add anything that doesn't work stylistically.
hairy_hen said:I agree with ABC: this topic is nuts.
Star Wars the original is practically perfect as is, even with minor fx mistakes, and messing with it further only hurts the movie. The most anyone should ever have done with it visually is remove matte lines and garbage boxes and so forth. Nothing else, please!
ABC said:>> Can anything else be done to ANH after Adywan? <<
... Yes: the same on blue-ray !
I think this topic is crazy. :)
We all want the original versions of these films available to the highest possible standard to purchase (it's why most of us joined up here in the first place).
But Lucas himself opened the door when he himself started making changes.
As a version of the SE (not Star Wars 1977) ANH:R is the best incarnation I've seen so far but it's not the last word on reworking the SE idea into something that corrects errors, adds a few flourishes and fits the tone of the story better.
It's an ideas thread for people who want to do that, therefore it's only a crazy topic if you don't want to do that, in which case why post on thread?
There are threads already for discussing the pros and cons of the SE.
My view is that if a SE exists already we might as well try and make it better than the two Lucas put out, that does undermine the call for getting the original versions released one jot.
