Asaki said:
Hey man, don't count your chickens before they hatch! We don't know how robust Mike's backup system is. I think he'd better send a copy to me, just to make sure it's really safe
I'm sure all of us are more than willing to serve as a safety backup
Just a quick question: will your master (filmprint) have the Greedo subtitles?
What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.
towne32 said:
Speaking of wretched hives...
edit: Oh god, I actually read that thread. I don't see why you felt the need to subject yourself to those people, Dre. A screenshot comparison where the blu-ray had literally no color except for blue present in the shot, and some kiddo exclaims that it looks "WAY WAY WAY better!" :(
Personally I don't know why MikeV tried to explain his point of view to them. They do understand it, but they also have their point of view which is that Lucas is the creator and so he should have control of the movies. There's nothing really wrong with that point of view, lots of people love the SE's, the issue is they have access to a reasonably decent quality version whereas fans of the pre-SE trilogy do not. They're not mutually exclusive, no one wants to erase the SE's and tell TFNers they can't ever watch them again.
Take this example from Empire:
Well some people prefer seeing this:
And are willing to "tolerate" the other changes made.
Whole arguments get started over whether the originals really are "great" or not - and there are plenty of examples of technological limitations or less than ideal matte-paintings. We on the whole should argue there should be both versions available.
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
RU.08 said:
Personally I don't know why MikeV tried to explain his point of view to them. They do understand it, but they also have their point of view which is that Lucas is the creator and so he should have control of the movies. There's nothing really wrong with that point of view, lots of people love the SE's, the issue is they have access to a reasonably decent quality version whereas fans of the pre-SE trilogy do not. They're not mutually exclusive, no one wants to erase the SE's and tell TFNers they can't ever watch them again.
I can certainly see why some people would like them. Especially if you grew up with them. I can even accept that some of them like Hayden being in RoTJ now. They grew up with the prequels and enjoy the consistency/links, including the consistently cheesy CGI. And I'm really not judging. No matter what version you like, nostalgia will always cover up the imperfections.
But yes, you've said it exactly right. The argument about which version is better can be set aside entirely when it comes to whether or not the originals should be suppressed. Even SE fans could perhaps imagine another film that they love the way it is, and imagine that they are no longer permitted to see it as they remember it. I wonder if any of them cared when only the Walkie Talkie Edition of ET was available.
To be somewhat fair, there are TFN type fans who do think we should be allowed to see the OOT, despite having no personal interest in it. But this is where Lucas's Kool-Aid was really effective. They'll us that Lucas already put the OOT out on DVD in 2006 and "nobody cared". They'll say that the quality was fine, it's just that it turns out that nobody wants to see the "ghetto version" of the film (real quote). And most of all, they'll tell us that there's no way to see the original in HD, because the negatives were destroyed in order to produce the SE. I think that's the single most effective mistruth that Lucas spun on the matter.
I myself am "guilty" of growing up with the 97' SE :D
I'd like to watch the OOT and, if I want to (rarely), still be able to watch the SE (though, no magenta skins, please...). No fan should attack the OOT, we should have both versions ready.
The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201
towne32 said:
And most of all, they'll tell us that there's no way to see the original in HD, because the negatives were destroyed in order to produce the SE. I think that's the single most effective mistruth that Lucas spun on the matter.
The negatives were changed for the 1997 special edition, that's no myth. How else did they strike the 1997SE prints? But we all know you don't need an intact o-neg to digitise the film (plus they most likely stored all the parts cut from the o-negs anyway ... mind you many of those parts had deteriorated the most or so they said).
But they're now in the hands of Disney and they don't have a track-record for not caring one bit about preserving the theatrical versions. If they aren't going to release BATB or the Lion King unaltered - two of their classic animated features - then there's not much hope that they'll care to give the Star Wars Trilogy the restoration and release it deserves.
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
RU.08 said:
But they're now in the hands of Disney and they don't have a track-record for not caring one bit about preserving the theatrical versions. If they aren't going to release BATB or the Lion King unaltered - two of their classic animated features - then there's not much hope that they'll care to give the Star Wars Trilogy the restoration and release it deserves.
Hey man, don't be so hard on Disney. Look at how generous and completely unselfish they were with The Thief and the Cobbler.
This signature uses Markdown syntax, which makes it easy to add formatting like italics, bold, and lists:
Well I'm sure Disney pays far more attention to fans on TFN than they do to ones on OT.com. Most SW fans just don't pay the O-OT all that much attention as TFN shows. As if Disney cares about a couple of dozen active users here who all love the O-OT and vehemently detest the PT - the fans they want are the ones who love all six films equally.
But Mike has completed his restoration of Star Wars 1977 so let's wait and see how Disney wants to respond to it. I mean at this stage we don't really know if they will say "no" to public screenings or not, I kind of get the impression that could well be possible now that the restoration is ready for DCP and 35mm outputs.
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
RU.08 said:
Well I'm sure Disney pays far more attention to fans on TFN than they do to ones on OT.com. Most SW fans just don't pay the O-OT all that much attention as TFN shows.
Which is why I'm always surprised/slightly uncomfortable when someone makes a thread over there about restoration and reconstruction type projects. Mostly nothing good can come of it, though the negative attention will probably also not be harmful.
But Mike has completed his restoration of Star Wars 1977 so let's wait and see how Disney wants to respond to it. I mean at this stage we don't really know if they will say "no" to public screenings or not, I kind of get the impression that could well be possible now that the restoration is ready for DCP and 35mm outputs.
If nothing else, could they use his restored segments for portions that truly are missing from their archives or damaged beyond repair (to whatever degree that this might actually be true)? Would it mesh well with the other material?
I recently watched the 'making of the SE' doc on the Blu-ray bonus disc. They needed the camera negative for the Look Sir, Droids shot. It was interesting that they honestly seemed to have no idea if it was going to be in the warehouse until they found it (in the wrong place).
They don't have to splice Legacy with anything it's complete. I'll quote what Mike said on his forum:
It's going to film to get the quality of film that only film has - grain, curve, etc. The master files are being adjusted so that the negative is correct, meaning that if viewed, the original DCP would look different, not "better."
Prints will be struck directly from a negative, and yes there will be multiple negatives, this being the advantage of having a digital source.
Legacy is ready for a negative to be made and prints struck!
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
Of course, and it's very exciting.
It was more from the angle of Disney being reluctant to accept something like that in full. That, perhaps, they would be more likely to use their own restoration, only borrowing what is needed. I don't know. I am sure it would be best using Mike's entirely, of course.
Asaki said:
Hey man, don't be so hard on Disney. Look at how generous and completely unselfish they were with The Thief and the Cobbler.
That's not really a good example. AFAIK, Disney does not actually own the movie - Miramax does (or at least has U.S. rights), and they are no longer part of Disney. (And at one point, the Weinsteins claimed ownership, but the reconstituted Miramax were the last to release it.)
Disney gets a lot of blame for what happened to that movie, when they really had nothing to do with it, other than owning Miramax. There were a lot of rumors that Disney had all the master elements that were under Miramax's control, but that was all before the Weinstein split. I don't think anything more will ever be answered as to who has what and who owns what.
towne32 said:
Of course, and it's very exciting.
It was more from the angle of Disney being reluctant to accept something like that in full. That, perhaps, they would be more likely to use their own restoration, only borrowing what is needed. I don't know. I am sure it would be best using Mike's entirely, of course.
Well I don't know if Disney does "their own" restorations? Many company outsource this to restoration companies, and the fact is Mike has a complete product that they can buy right now. They don't have to get someone else to do it. They know exactly what it will cost (since it's already done), and there's no need to worry about things like deadlines for getting it done.
About splicing it with another source, my feeling is that most companies prefer to avoid it. If they want to release two versions they use two sources if they can. For example, the 4k restoration of Deep Red will be released in less than a month, and includes the International cut. I would be surprised if the International cut is the same scan as the Italian cut. Especially since it's on a separate disc which is not necessary as Bluray seamless branching is easy and straightforward with any industry-standard authoring program. But with that said, attitudes could change in the future and there may be more interesting in doing hybrid versions more and separate versions less.
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
I think the Rat relies on the same company as Lucasfilm for their so-called restorations.
"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)
The 2004 "restoration" was done internally (as was the 1997 version) - Lowy just cleaned it up a bit at the end when Lucasfilm realised they couldn't get it done on their own by their deadline.
[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]
The 2004 edition was so badly done. You can actually see the tail of the '97 Jabba during the transition in the scene where he talks with Han.
http://i1.someimage.com/bGksBr9.jpg
See?
“English, motherf***er! Do you speak it!?”
Never noticed it :D
Maybe the 2004 SE was cut using mostly 97' SE's footage (not the o-neg), except for those shots using new special effects.
The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201
Holy hell, I hadn't caught that before now! You'd think they'd have recomposited the original footage...
Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.
ilovewaterslides said:
The 2004 edition was so badly done. You can actually see the tail of the '97 Jabba during the transition in the scene where he talks with Han.
http://i1.someimage.com/bGksBr9.jpg
See?
Holy shit...
Oh jeez, I have to add this to the Changes.ilovewaterslides said:
The 2004 edition was so badly done. You can actually see the tail of the '97 Jabba during the transition in the scene where he talks with Han.
http://i1.someimage.com/bGksBr9.jpg
See?
Star Wars Revisited Wordpress
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How utterly ridiculous! Was this fixed on the 2011 BD?
Isn't there also a part in RotJ where you can see the original Sy Snootles puppet just before the Jedi Rocks CGI crapfest?
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
I don't think so; the transitions were remade for the edition where that started.
Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.
I can't find the pic right now, but this guy mentions it in the text at the bottom of his post. http://originaltrilogy.com/FORUM/topic.cfm/TPM-1080p-Theatrical-Preservation/post/781029/#TopicPost781029
JEDIT: Here we go: https://plus.google.com/photos/+DrewStewart/albums/5528361230751063825/5529747127146857570?pid=5529747127146857570&oid=102542760950977079734
Talk about sloppy work... :o/
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
I think the original puppet is visible in the background of some other wide shot of Jabba's throne room, possibly one where they digitally stitched in the new set portions with the dancers and drummers.
If I had the DVD handy, I would check. ;)
JEDIT:Antcu beat me to it. I think they intentionally left it in though, as it's doesn't occur in the Jedi Rocks scene proper.
Where were you in '77?