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Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker Redux Ideas thread — Page 33

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Had two thoughts regarding Palpatine.

There was this weird implication in the film that I feel like hasn’t gotten a lot of discussion. When Palpatine exposits his evil plan to Rey, for some reason, that his spirit will possess her body once she kills him, and when he declares, “I am all the Sith”, when I first saw the movie it gave me the impression that Palpatine was basically saying every Sith in the Rule of Two, since Bane, has possessed their apprentice and formed some kind of collective consciousness over the past millennia. But, like most things related to Palpatine, it is left rather vague.

A part of me thinks it would be interesting to lean into that angle more, in order to differentiate ST Palpatine even more from OT Palpatine. I kind of think that the vessel isn’t consciously aware that their master would possess them when they killed them. Their identity is retained, but the spirit is passively controlling them. But maybe after Palpatine’s “death” that consciousness has come to the surface.

A cool way to get this idea across would be to layer Palpatine’s dialogue with multiple voices, to imply that that there is something more sinister deep within the withering husk of Palpatine. I also think leaning in this direction makes the summary of Episode IX be more than just, “Somehow, Palpatine returned.”

The final antagonist isn’t simply just Palpatine again, but the Sith incarnate.

Another though regarding the climax, I have been trying brainstorm ways to make the final destruction of Palpatine/the Sith more interesting than just Rey deflecting lightning back at him. Since Palpatine’s face melting is so reminiscent to how the Nazi’s are killed by the Ark of the Covenant, I wonder if we could see that after Rey stands back up, we could have the Force ghosts standing behind Rey. And to make their involvement rather simple, after Rey declares that she is all the Jedi (or however you replace/remove it), the Force ghosts simply turn into blinding light, and that light contributes to the disintegration, and final destruction, of Palpatine/the Sith.

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Like many things, the movie doesn’t explain things and/or leaves things so vague up in the air.

Interesting idea and all, I am surprised they didn’t add something like that in the movie, even if they were all just standing behind her or something.

Then again … even story wise wouldn’t you not be able to see many of them since they didn’t get the, erm, Force Ghost Training? Of course, that in itself has a large hole enough that Anakin was able to do it. I guess because he is Force Messiah he can bypass that. Then again … I think that whole thing is a can of worms to explore further in.

Speaking of the whole Anakin thing … I want his line removed about bringing balance back like he did. As much as I didn’t like the whole “chosen one” concept introduced in the PT, it seems this movie kind of said “Welp, that Chosen One and him balancing the Force amounted to nothing.”

Oh wait … what if Disney is now saying “Anakin wasn’t the Chosen One, it’s Rey! Girl Power! Force is Female! So scratch the first two trilogies of his importance!”

Regardless, I guess the whole “balancing of the force” has been kind of a hot mess. Maybe going back to the PT edits and remove the Chosen One thing would be better. Never liked that direction anyway. Would that help the cohesion in a sense? Just remove that aspect? It was silly before … but now the new trilogy pretty much deflates it even more.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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I’d really like to find an alternate reason for Kylo to search for the wayfinder, other than Palpatine’s message. I know some people have suggested that he might want to find the “source of Snoke’s power” or something, but I don’t really understand what that means. Another idea I’ve been thinking of recently is that he might be searching for Palpatine’s Final Order fleet, but that wouldn’t really mesh with Kylo’s line “What could you give me?” Maybe I could replace that line with something else, since his mouth is hidden behind his arm.

Either way, Palpatine’s reveal needs to be postponed, as much as possible. It’s so weird how the first scene in the final movie of a trilogy introduces a new villain completely out of the blue, and the final movie is focused on fighting him instead of the villains that have been set up the previous two movies. Postponing that scene by about 15 to 20 minutes would hopefully help fix this problem. Here’s what I’m thinking:

  1. Change the opening crawl. Kylo is now searching for the Final Order fleet, in order to help quell the rebellions inspired by Luke’s heroic actions on Crait.
  2. Theatrical opening scene, Kylo killing the Mustafar natives. Might want to add a brief insert shot of Vader’s castle somewhere. After Kylo gets the wayfinder, fade to black.
  3. Transition to Falcon in hyperspace. Finn and Poe get the information from Boolio, and lightspeed skip to escape.
  4. The next few scenes proceed as normal. Rey trains and has Vader-induced visions, Rey talks to Leia about her lack of concentration, Poe and Finn land and have an argument with Rey.
  5. During the Resistance briefing scene, replace Poe’s dialogue. He now talks about Kylo searching for the Final Order fleet, which is hidden on a planet called Exogol. Cut all mentions of Palpatine’s return, since he hasn’t revealed himself at this point.
  6. After Rey explains the wayfinders to Leia, cut to Kylo heading to Exegol. This is now the point where Palpatine reveals himself. His return has been set up in the previous scenes, and should now come as an actual shock to the audience, instead of being confusing and weird.
  7. After Palpatine smiles evilly when Kylo agrees to his plans (remove him teasing Rey’s heritage), cut to the trio embarking on their journey. The stakes have been established, and it’s time to get on with the plot. The rest of the movie proceeds as normal, with some changes along the way.

I really hope something like this could work. If executed right, it could help the movie feel like an actual sequel to The Last Jedi, instead of some weird semi-standalone movie that doesn’t fit into anything. I’d appreciate some feedback on this.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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It might be better not to address the balance thing at all, and let people fill in the gaps themselves!

Well, if you wanted to keep the Chosen One/balance stuff, maybe the Force has been out of balance because this malevolent spirit has been leeching off the Force for the past 1000 years, like a cancer. So destroying that entity is how balance is restored.

Instead of having a whole bunch of Force ghosts, it could just be Anakin that appears. You could superimpose brief glimpses of Anakin’s spirit onto Rey as she is deflecting the lightning, and then when she starts deflecting it back at Palpatine, that spirit becomes more solid, and finally his spirit could fly toward Palpatine, and that collision causes the explosion. So basically, its like Anakin’s spirit is dragging the Sith entity into the netherworld for good. It would be an interesting dichotomy, where you momentarily have these two avatars of the Sith and the Jedi having one final confrontation.

You are probably right though, it would probably be less work to just remove the Chosen One stuff from the prequels, and infer that balance is just a thing that has to be maintained constantly, rather than some prophesied being bringing some ultimate form of balance.

Also, when thinking about how to improve the climax of the film, I can’t help but think back to ROTJ. To me what made that climax so great was the emotion of those final moments between a conflicted father and a selfless son. Will Luke give into his anger? Will Vader save his son? Suddenly the epic battle between the Rebellion and the Empire became a very personal conflict.

A lot of the emotion that I think exists in the IX climax is the interaction between Ben and Rey, and between Rey and her friends. Rey really has no actual personal connection with Palpatine or the Force ghosts. While I think having a part of that ethereal battle between the forces of the light and the dark side is cool, I also thinking finding ways to make the final battle feel more personal would make it generally more satisfying. Does that mean replacing the Force ghost talk with something else, or pairing it with something else? What else can be done to heighten the emotion of the climax? I think that is something to think about.

EDIT: Cool thoughts Starkiller! I think having Kylo’s search be for the fleet would be a good alternate. Do you think you could transcribe Poe’s exposition about the fleet and “Somehow, Palpatine returned.” To see how if excising any mention from that scene is possible?

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I know what you mean about trying to bring more to the climax … but you kinda can’t. There isn’t a personal between Rey and Palps. They tried to with the “Force Ghosts of Jedi’s pass” but it kinda fell flat, to be honest.

There could have been more of a personal connection with the climax if Kylo did the “Sith Sacrifice/Power Transfer” and it was a battle between Kylo(Sith Avatar) and Rey. That would have done it.

Anyway, sorry if this is becoming more of a Star Wars discussion instead of editing … not sure what can be done to add more to the climax to mean something, personally.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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The idea that the Palpatine we see is no longer the man himself but rather the wrath of a thousand Sith Lords trapped in a rotting corpse is intriguing.

Would it be possible to deepfake Hux over Pryde and eliminate the latter entirely from the plot? It’s not a change I really care for, but it’s an idea worth throwing out there.

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@jarbear No you are fine! Honestly I think the bigger picture thoughts have to be worked out to determining which directions are worth going in, you know?

Maybe the personal aspect could be more about who/what Rey is defending rather than attacking. That is why I have suggested in the past that the Force vision moment could be substituted with something that carries more emotional weight, like something that reminds us of what she is fighting for, like her friends and newfound family.

Luke didn’t have any personal connection to Palpatine in ROTJ either, so I think it is fine that Rey has no emotional connection with Palpatine either.

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RogueLeader said:

EDIT: Cool thoughts Starkiller! I think having Kylo’s search be for the fleet would be a good alternate. Do you think you could transcribe Poe’s exposition about the fleet and “Somehow, Palpatine returned.” To see how if excising any mention from that scene is possible?

This is what the theatrical version of the Resistance briefing scene sounds like:

Poe: “We retrieved the intel from the First Order spy, and it confirms the worst. Somehow, Palpatine returned.”
Rose: “Wait, do we believe this?”
Alien guy: “It cannot be! The emperor is dead!”
Human guy: “Dark science. Cloning. Secrets only the Sith knew.”
Poe: “He’s been planning his return. His followers have been building something: the largest fleet the galaxy has ever known. He calls it the Final Order. In 16 hours, attacks on all free worlds begin. The emperor and his supporters have been hiding in the Unknown Regions, on a world called Exogol.”
C-3PO: “Exogol does not appear on any star chart, but legend describes it as the hidden world of the Sith.”
Poe: “So Palpatine’s been out there all this time, pulling the strings.”
Leia: “Always, in the shadows from the very beginning.”
Maz: “If we want to stop him, we must find him. We must find Exogol.”
Rey: “General, may I speak with you for a moment?”

Here’s how I was planning to change it, with some redubbed dialogue for Poe:

Poe: “We retrieved the intel from the First Order spy, and it confirms the worst. Kylo Ren has retrieved some kind of artifact, that will help him retrieve a lost Imperial fleet: the largest fleet the galaxy has ever known. He calls it the Final Order. Once he retrieves the fleet, attacks on all free worlds will begin. Rumors say the fleet is hidden in the Unknown Regions, on a world called Exogol.”
C-3PO: “Exogol does not appeas on any star chart, but legend describes it as the hidden world of the Sith.”
Maz: “If we want to stop him, we must find Exogol.”
Rey: “General, may I speak with you for a moment?”

I think it could be pulled off convincingly. Poe seems like a role that would be easy to voice act, and there are many reaction shots of Resistance officers that new dialogue could be inserted over.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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Oscar Isaac has a very distinct voice and switching between a voice actor and his real dialogue would likely be somewhat jarring. The alternative is to redub his entire scene which is also very likely to be noticeable. Also the lines added are not game changers. You could accomplish almost the same thing with just cuts.

heil Palpatine!

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Does anyone have a speech cloner app set up and successfully running? I tried one and ran into too many errors with the python libraries.

heil Palpatine!

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krausfadr said:

Oscar Isaac has a very distinct voice and switching between a voice actor and his real dialogue would likely be somewhat jarring. The alternative is to redub his entire scene which is also very likely to be noticeable. Also the lines added are not game changers. You could accomplish almost the same thing with just cuts.

Okay, here’s what it would look like if I used cuts instead of voice acting:

Poe: “We retrieved the intel from the First Order spy, and it confirms the worst. The largest fleet the galaxy has ever known: the Final Order. Hiding in the unknown regions, on a world called Exogol.”
C-3PO: “Exogol does not appear on any star chart, but legend describes it as the hidden world of the Sith.”
Maz: “We must find Exogol.”
Rey: “General, may I speak with you for a moment?”

I’m worried it might be too short, but it could potentially work, especially with a changed opening crawl.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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Maybe the Alien guy could be redubbed to add some extra exposition too.

Rose could say after Poe’s first line, “Wait, do we actually believe this?”
And then the alien guy could say something about it being a secret/lost fleet of the Empire, or the Emperor’s contingency. Something brief to justify its existence.

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I honestly liked that we only heard voices of Jedi past, seeing a Force ghost convention would probably not have worked. But Anakin, Luke and Leia, the Skywalkers could have, maybe after we hear the voices.

Another thing, anyone else find it weird that we hear Kanan? His story was not that connected to what they’re now calling the Skywalker saga, he never met anyone I think. Maybe we could just keep the most important voices.

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Yeah I would prefer if Kanan, ayla secura and ashoka get cut and just keep the legacy characters.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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idir_hh said:

Yeah I would prefer if Kanan, ayla secura and ashoka get cut and just keep the legacy characters.

FWIW, if this is because you think it would confuse the audience, I’ve only heard of one of those characters (I pretty much stick to the movies, and have seen Mandalorian and a tiny bit of TCW), but it didn’t bother or confuse me at all that there were some Jedi voices I didn’t recognize. If anything, it made the universe feel more expansive to me hearing Jedi voices I wasn’t familiar with mixed in with the ones I knew. Just my two cents!

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I see where you’re coming from and it plays well with “the jedi of the past” thing, but looking at it from a lore and canon perspective, it doesn’t make much sense to have Jedi other than Luke, Qui Gon, Anakin, Obi-wan, Yoda and (possibly Leia) communicate from the netherworld of the force without having discovered that knowledge.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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On a personal note myself, I prefer to keep the movies separate from kid shows, comics, etc.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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idir_hh said:

I see where you’re coming from and it plays well with “the jedi of the past” thing, but looking at it from a lore and canon perspective, it doesn’t make much sense to have Jedi other than Luke, Qui Gon, Anakin, Obi-wan, Yoda and (possibly Leia) communicate from the netherworld of the force without having discovered that knowledge.

Why not? First of all, Anakin died without having learned that power, and yet he can still become a ghost. More importantly, it shouldn’t be a struggle for Rey to speak to the ghosts, no? And yet it’s something that takes practice and training. The way I interpreted it, the challenge of hearing the voices of the Jedi that came before is hearing not just the ghosts, but everyone.

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Speaking of the Force ghost sequence, I had been thinking a little more about earlier conversations about potentially adjusting it to focus on Rey hearing/thinking about her friends, but I’ve thought of something else.

When Palpatine starts zapping the fleet, it shows various shots of ships falling and ships exploding, and then we see that Rey is watching what is happening before her focus zooms last them into space. I was thinking that this moment could be altered a bit more to show that Rey is sensing her friends in peril, specifically Poe, Finn, and maybe others, rather than random ships, and this is what encourages her to try to reach out and connect with the Force ghosts. It would be nice to further adjust this to make it where Finn speaks to her through the Force, and this is what encourages her to connect with the Force ghosts. As it is in the theatrical, it just feels like she does it on a whim, so this could be a nice touch if we could figure out how to do something like that, and it would pay off Finn’s “I have to tell you something Rey” moments.

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DominicCobb said:

idir_hh said:

I see where you’re coming from and it plays well with “the jedi of the past” thing, but looking at it from a lore and canon perspective, it doesn’t make much sense to have Jedi other than Luke, Qui Gon, Anakin, Obi-wan, Yoda and (possibly Leia) communicate from the netherworld of the force without having discovered that knowledge.

Why not? First of all, Anakin died without having learned that power, and yet he can still become a ghost. More importantly, it shouldn’t be a struggle for Rey to speak to the ghosts, no? And yet it’s something that takes practice and training. The way I interpreted it, the challenge of hearing the voices of the Jedi that came before is hearing not just the ghosts, but everyone.

Anakin kinda get’s a pass though since he is the Chosen One, in “the Rise and Fall of Darth Vader” novel, Obi Wan reached out to Anakin when his consciousness was between the physical realm and the netherworld and taught him “one final lesson”

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…

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Maybe the reason the other Force ghosts haven’t chimed in throughout the saga when it would’ve been convenient is because Anakin and the other Force ghosts have been helping long dead Jedi regain consciousness within the netherworld of the Force.

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RogueLeader said:

Maybe the reason the other Force ghosts haven’t chimed in throughout the saga when it would’ve been convenient is because Anakin and the other Force ghosts have been helping long dead Jedi regain consciousness within the netherworld of the Force.

I like that idea although it might rely a little too much on “extra curricular” material.

Peace is a lie
There is only passion…