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Star Wars: The Bad Batch (animated series) - a general discussion thread - * SPOILERS * — Page 10

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Pretty good episode, though I don’t like how Tech tried to gaslight Hera when discussing her message.

I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.

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Well, although episode 13: Infected felt like little other than pure filler, episode 14 put the series really back on form. Returning to the Kamino plot and exploring the transition from clones to stormtroopers is really taking advantage of the current state of the star wars galaxy to make the series more interesting. Sure, we got a bit of the same ‘hunter doesn’t want to do thing, omega says it’s the right thing to do, hunter reluctantly agrees, they do the thing while omega sits it out but steps in to save the day at the end’ story that we’ve already got a number of times with this season, but it definitely felt like there were higher stakes and a much better focus on the characters of the Batch - for example Echo using the comparison of his rescue from Skako Minor to show his personal investment in what happens and to move the plot forward.

Also, something that Star Wars Explained picked up in his review of the episode was that the intermediate clone-stormtrooper design seems to be inspired by Ralph McQuarrie’s stormtrooper concept art. Lucasfilm animation has a great track record of using McQuarrie concepts as direct inspirations and I’m glad The Bad Batch is continuing that!

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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Sorry to harp on this again, but the word “filler” has quickly turned into my biggest modern pop culture analysis pet peeve. How exactly was last episode filler? They saved Cid (despite her having taken advantage of them for most of the season), they helped the Devaronian gangster guy, they even got involved with the pikes. I can see much of this, if not all of it, becoming really important in future episodes. And even if it doesn’t then it was still a full story which had a point to tell at the end. That’s not filler. Walter White chasing a fly for a full 50 min. episode of Breaking Bad because of broadcast requirements not matching the already mostly spent budget, now that’s filler.

Anyway, on a more positive note:
I loved the Imperial base from the latest episode. The giant hole in the ground is exactly the kind of slightly abstract designs that I love in SW, and it really helps add this feel of danger and menace to the Empire. And I always love seeing McQuarrie designs being repurposed, though I wouldn’t say it’s an exact match (at least not of the image referenced), but it was a really cool design that felt very McQuarrie-esque regardless.

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The proto-Stormtroopers felt really out of place. They don’t look anything like Clone or Stormtroopers. They’d actually have served better in a post-Mandalorian Empire as the transition into the FO Stormtroopers.

It’s even worse because Hunter himself already has the transitional look between the Phase 2 helmet and a Stormtrooper helmet in the same way Colt had the transitional helmet between the Phase 1 and 2 clones.

Other than that, the episode was a really god one. I like them remembering that the Bad Batch (well Echo’s an ARC but they’re basically the same) are commandos and tying them into Gregor and Sev was good.

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ZkinandBonez said:

Sorry to harp on this again, but the word “filler” has quickly turned into my biggest modern pop culture analysis pet peeve. How exactly was last episode filler? They saved Cid (despite her having taken advantage of them for most of the season), they helped the Devaronian gangster guy, they even got involved with the pikes. I can see much of this, if not all of it, becoming really important in future episodes. And even if it doesn’t then it was still a full story which had a point to tell at the end. That’s not filler. Walter White chasing a fly for a full 50 min. episode of Breaking Bad because of broadcast requirements not matching the already mostly spent budget, now that’s filler.

Believe me Bonez, I don’t use the word lightly. When people call episodes ‘filler’, I’m often skeptical because those episodes have turned out to be important character development or bonding time, or just a crucial step back from the story so it isn’t far too overwhelming or fast paced. A lot of episodes people call ‘filler’, I wouldn’t. I don’t call any Clone Wars episodes filler because it’s an anthology series aiming to explore the full scope of the war, and that includes dwelling on smaller stories or characters. But TBB is a linear series; I certainly wasn’t feeling like the story was moving too fast, and the episode felt like they were running out of ideas for new episodes.

Sorry for rambling on about the term, but there are also no Rebels episodes I’d call filler (and maybe that seems a stretch…) ‘Droids in Distress’ explores Zeb’s history and past trauma while setting up the Ghost crew’s involvement in a larger Rebellion; ‘Fighter Flight’ uses a goofy fruit-finding mission to develop the brotherly bond between Ezra and Zeb after previous fallings-out; even Iron Squadron provides a look at Commander Sato’s relationships with Thrawn and his nephew, and it introduces Mart. ‘Infested’ from TBB had pretty much no character development as far as I could tell. Cid proves herself slightly honourable by wanting to save Omega, which I liked, and Omega proves herself a kind and compassionate person for the hundredth time… I just felt like it dragged a bit and didn’t do much to make the characters of the Batch more memorable. But I’m maybe being too harsh on it, because the show IS aiming to explore this period in the star wars galaxy and taking a look at the criminal underworld is an important part of that. And I hope we see the pikes again.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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“War Mantle” may have been my favorite episode so far. I was hoping from the moment the series was announced that we could see how clones such as Gregor or Wolffe deserted.

Other than the typical “Omega convinces a reluctant Hunter” exchange at the beginning, this episode felt really fresh and we finally reached a couple of important milestones: the clone lines of production have been officially shut down, and the Empire has taken control of the Kaminoan assets. More importantly, it marks the earliest in-universe appearance of the TK troopers.

I’m also glad we had a bit more focus on Echo, with this mission feeling more personal for him due to the parallels with his own rescue from the Techno Union.

The fanservice was also cool: return of the clone commandos, the McQuarrie-inspired prototype Stormtrooper armor, seeing V-wings in action, a gonk droid doing what it was made for, etc. Also can we comment on that Scorch cameo, even if he had less than a minute of screentime?

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jedi_bendu said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Sorry to harp on this again, but the word “filler” has quickly turned into my biggest modern pop culture analysis pet peeve. How exactly was last episode filler? They saved Cid (despite her having taken advantage of them for most of the season), they helped the Devaronian gangster guy, they even got involved with the pikes. I can see much of this, if not all of it, becoming really important in future episodes. And even if it doesn’t then it was still a full story which had a point to tell at the end. That’s not filler. Walter White chasing a fly for a full 50 min. episode of Breaking Bad because of broadcast requirements not matching the already mostly spent budget, now that’s filler.

Believe me Bonez, I don’t use the word lightly. When people call episodes ‘filler’, I’m often skeptical because those episodes have turned out to be important character development or bonding time, or just a crucial step back from the story so it isn’t far too overwhelming or fast paced. A lot of episodes people call ‘filler’, I wouldn’t. I don’t call any Clone Wars episodes filler because it’s an anthology series aiming to explore the full scope of the war, and that includes dwelling on smaller stories or characters. But TBB is a linear series; I certainly wasn’t feeling like the story was moving too fast, and the episode felt like they were running out of ideas for new episodes.

Sorry for rambling on about the term, but there are also no Rebels episodes I’d call filler (and maybe that seems a stretch…) ‘Droids in Distress’ explores Zeb’s history and past trauma while setting up the Ghost crew’s involvement in a larger Rebellion; ‘Fighter Flight’ uses a goofy fruit-finding mission to develop the brotherly bond between Ezra and Zeb after previous fallings-out; even Iron Squadron provides a look at Commander Sato’s relationships with Thrawn and his nephew, and it introduces Mart. ‘Infested’ from TBB had pretty much no character development as far as I could tell. Cid proves herself slightly honourable by wanting to save Omega, which I liked, and Omega proves herself a kind and compassionate person for the hundredth time… I just felt like it dragged a bit and didn’t do much to make the characters of the Batch more memorable. But I’m maybe being too harsh on it, because the show IS aiming to explore this period in the star wars galaxy and taking a look at the criminal underworld is an important part of that. And I hope we see the pikes again.

Fair enough, and I see what you mean, though I have to disagree with TBB being a “linear” show (unless I’m interpreting that differently than you do), though it’s obviously much more a single story when compared to TCW, but I’d say it’s more in the same style as Rebels where it’s episodic while still having a through-line as it’s main focus. I get the frustration with TBB being a bit repetitive with it’s themes every now and then, I can’t really argue against that, though Infested still felt more like a proper episode to me than say Iron Squadron, which is the only Rebels episode I don’t like.Though that might just have to do with a personal pet peeve for these types of stories, and that the main cast got side-stepped a bit for some completely new (and slightly annoying IMO) characters. It boils down to taste I suppose, and I quite liked Infested because I love when SW dips into monster-movie territory and the stuff with Cid and the pikes made it feel like a proper story with some real stakes rather than if the big-creatures had simply been part of one of Cid’s jobs or something more casual like that. It was definitely one of the lesser episodes of the first season though, but I still quite enjoyed it and I’m still willing to bet that it’s going to have larger consequences down the line.

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Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Amazon link to my first novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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Someone else here catching up on the latest episode?

“Return to Kamino” is easily a top 10 highlight of Star Wars animated canon.

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I agree, actually. This season has been an absolute see saw of story quality imo. That final few minutes of this episode in particular make perhaps one of my favourite moments from Star Wars overall.

Concept artists designed Kamino to look sterile, cold and eerie. I find it very touching that in The Clone Wars, as the clones’ individuality grew we saw how much Kamino meant to them as their home, and got used to the life they brought to it, to the point where seeing Tipoca city destroyed is really saddening.



Goodbye old friend…

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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I’m a little confused about Crosshair. How the hell did he get unchipped???

I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.

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Because of that one look Hunter gives to Crosshair’s charred head after stunning him, my guess is that the chip got damaged when Crosshair was burnt by the Venator’s engines on Bracca.

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Knight of Kalee said:

Because of that one look Hunter gives to Crosshair’s charred head after stunning him, my guess is that the chip got damaged when Crosshair was burnt by the Venator’s engines on Bracca.

However he says he removed it. What Imperial is gonna allow that.

I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.

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Maybe he was told that they removed the chip when he asked what they were doing to him in the first episode?

“Fight Less, Talk More, Say Sorry Sometimes.”

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Peter Pan said:

Maybe he was told that they removed the chip when he asked what they were doing to him in the first episode?

Probably, either that or the chip was replaced with a regular one and it’s trying to protect itself.

I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.

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JackNapier said:

Knight of Kalee said:

Because of that one look Hunter gives to Crosshair’s charred head after stunning him, my guess is that the chip got damaged when Crosshair was burnt by the Venator’s engines on Bracca.

However he says he removed it. What Imperial is gonna allow that.

Maybe Rampart went along with it, knowing it could be a further reason to eventually dispose of Crosshair when the time came.

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Knight of Kalee said:

JackNapier said:

Knight of Kalee said:

Because of that one look Hunter gives to Crosshair’s charred head after stunning him, my guess is that the chip got damaged when Crosshair was burnt by the Venator’s engines on Bracca.

However he says he removed it. What Imperial is gonna allow that.

Maybe Rampart went along with it, knowing it could be a further reason to eventually dispose of Crosshair when the time came.

Your guess is as good as mine

I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.

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Here’s a weird question: If Omega was involved in the creation of the Bad Batch, and Boba (who was 10 in AOTC) was the first clone, and the war lasted 3 years, and regs age at 2x normal speed, and the fighting age for clones is 20, does that mean that Omega was already working in a lab at age 3, or that the Bad Batchers age even faster than other clones, or that their DNA was still being altered after they were born?

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My guess is that the Batchers had even faster metabolism and aging, further contributing to their personality quirks (e.g. Wrecker being a manchild) and why some of them show early physical signs of old age such as Crosshair’s grey hair and Tech’s receding hairline.

They still could have been experimented on after birth, but they never had met Omega before the series premiere.

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I love the episodes Reunion, War Mantle and Return to Kamino, and I’m fond of a few others, but overall I’m not big on the season. With only some golden moments, I felt it was mostly a mishmash of cameos and fumbled plot lines. It had an odd structure, and favoured connectivity and fan service over much needed character development. Although characters like Hunter, Omega and Wrecker are endearing, they don’t grow very much… I think the batch do learn to “adapt and survive” as Saw said, and Omega influences their idea of what an outcast soldier should do faced with completely different circumstances, but all this is quite subtle and it’s not sufficient for a compelling season. I wanted to see characters like Tech or Wrecker put in situations where they can’t use their usual skillset to survive, I wanted to see Echo grapple with his past or his identity as part of the Batch, I wanted to see Omega grow as a person other than just becoming a resourceful warrior. Crosshair is very interesting, but his story is full of twists, turns and uncertainties and they’ve almost lost my interest at this point.

Fan service can be important. But I much prefer it when it’s properly serving the story. Cad Bane appeared as if being introduced as a new main antagonist, and I thought - great! But he was introduced only to have his ass handed to him the following episode and we never see him again. Fennec also seemed to be set up as a main antagonist, but appears in only one more episode then drops out of the season, just half way through. These are cameos are their worst. Tarkin seemed to be the main villain of sorts, then gets replaced by Rampart, who is still a little bland right now. The whole season just seems to be a bit of a mess for me.

The one thing that’s exciting me for season 2 right now is the possibility that this is Wayland from the original Thrawn trilogy. It seems too much of a coincidence that it’s a secret Imperial base built into a mountain on a forest planet and a chief cloning scientist is working there. This would be very cool, but I don’t like that the one thing I’m hyped for is another bloody connection to other star wars media. The batch have much more potential as individual characters than has been realised so far. I hope they step this up in season 2!

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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I’m on a similar boat to you. Overall I have mixed feelings towards Season 1 at the moment but leaning towards positive.

I’d give S1 a 7,5/10 on average, but some episodes and moments are among my favorite animated SW moments of all time and they alone tempt me to give it a higher score. The general shortcomings of the season are too noticeable, though. It didn’t feel that character-driven like Rebels, but the premise didn’t allow for an anthology format the way TCW did it. I hoped for the former, but as of today the Bad Batch stands on a fairly awkward middle ground.

The fan service is a mixed bag. Episodes like the Cad Bane v. Fennec one that were great on first viewing now feel awkward in retrospective as their appearance didn’t have a significant payoff. I hope we see the bounty hunters again, particularly due to their connection to Boba Fett (who really should appear in the upcoming Season 2), but I’m not holding my breath. The feeling of not knowing which winks to the audience are going to be relevant in the future honestly is a bit frustrating, though I welcomed some of the guest appearances such as the Syndullas or Gregor. Even if I expected an uneven story progression, based on Filoni’s previous shows (Rebels is well-known by having crowning episodes interspersed with a sea of lower-stakes episodes depicting more frivolous events, the dreaded “filler” for some people out there) but at least some of the breather episodes of Rebels provided some much needed character development, which has not been really the case for TBB so far. Though each Batcher is unique and amusing in its own right, most of them have been painfully underserved exceptuating Hunter, Omega and maybe Crosshair. My best hopes lie on the prospect of having a more consistent storyline for S2 that showcases more of the Batchers’s individuality, maybe putting them in situations where they cannot rely on their typical skills, particularly for Wrecker, Echo and Tech.

I really liked the smaller scale of the finale, but wished it had been part of a longer episode, maybe as part of the same as “Return to Kamino” and to give more closure to the Batch themselves or at least an extended moment at the very end where they dwell on what happened, their thoughts on Crosshair or the fall of Kamino, or at least some hint of what they’re going to do next.

And yeah I almost shouted “Wayland!” to the screen with that ending scene. Pity we saw, like, every clone commando ever save for Delta Squad hahaha. Also I’m sure they’re going to connect it to the Mandalorian timeline and (hopefully) a canon equivalent of the Thrawn Trilogy campaign.
However I’m still hyped for S2 and how does it progress the plotlines. Will Crosshair have a Kallus-like arc, where he learns of how expendable he is for the Empire?

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The empire did say he was dead to them.

I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the universe.

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Knight of Kalee said:

Will Crosshair have a Kallus-like arc, where he learns of how expendable he is for the Empire?

My guess would be that he’s taken the first step on that journey of realisation. I hope that Rampart carelessly ordering his death with the destruction of Kamino proves to be a fatal mistake.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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Overall, I really enjoyed it. It’s been a nice change of pace to meet some new characters. I was talking with a friend of mine in our weekly nerd discussion about how the stories have been easy to watch because they have, for the most part, been free of world ending weight.

That’s not a criticism. I don’t always need everything to be so heavy. That said, they really upped the weight the last few episodes and I thought it worked really well. The last two in particular brought the story into a more complex place. I thought it was very interesting that they left it there. No resolution, just a lot more on the line as our heroes get deeper into their journey.

I went into this series thinking it would be a nice decompression show every week. Nothing to get to deep into. Just some one-of adventures, interesting animation, etc. It had that for sure, but it also had some very interesting character development. Turns out I’ve enjoyed it much more than I thought I would when it was announced. The animation was fantastic and the score is fantastic… I listen to it regularly while I work and commute.

The acoustic guitar work in Onderon is some of the best music to ever come out of the franchise. Caleb At The Cliff is very much an homage to Bernard Herrmann. Those two are my favorites.

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You believe what you want to believe.

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The Bad Batch has been one of those shows I wished was just a few episodes shorter so it could really tighten up the story, but it started and ended strong. Looking forward to next season!