Star Wars OT & 1997 Special Edition - Various Projects Info (Released) — Page 16

you guys are always free to make your own audio, it is very easy to rip it and replace with your own, I will use whatever bit rate it takes to put these on there, I want this to be my last set I ever do, because all I really care about is getting a retail Blu-ray release anyway, so I want to get this as good as I can and get as many different audio options as I can, and the video is at 6500 and that will not change.

so if you don't like what I put out, like I said above, make your own.

zombie84 said:

Agreed. 192 is unacceptable, IMO, I don't even put MP3s on my iPod at that bitrate.

I put 128 on my iPod.  It's what you do when you have over 20 Gigs of music for a 20 Gig drive.

:p

ABX is a more reliable indicator than simple bitrate? 

Dunedain said:

This 70mm stereo soundtrack sounds interesting, in that it's apparently just like the 93 Definitive Collection laserdisk soundtrack, but with no added sound effects. So it's an authentic theatrical soundtrack? What source was used to get this 70mm stereo soundtrack, is it complete? Does it sound as good as the Definitive Collection does (in terms of overall quality)?

I'll give a brief summary here, but you should read this thread for a much more detailed accounting: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-1977-70mm-sound-mix-recreation-stereo-and-51-versions-now-available/topic/11348/

The term 'stereo 70mm' is a bit misleading, I suppose, because it is not actually a theatrical sound mix--it is the 1993 Definitive Collection PCM track with certain sections replaced by the 35mm stereo mix, in order to remove the extra, unnecessary sound effects.  70mm prints of Star Wars never had stereo mixes, they all contained six-track discrete channel audio, which in today's terms could be called a 4.2 format.  That is to say, four full range channels (left, right, center, surround) with the remaining two devoted exclusively to bass content.  The '93 DC mix was created by downmixing the 70mm version into stereo, and then adding extra sound effects on top of it; hence the 'stereo 70mm' sounds more like the original, but not exactly as it was.

The 5.1 version comes significantly closer to the theatrical mix by adding a custom LFE channel, derived mainly from the 1997 special edition, but adjusted considerably for optimal integration into the rest of the audio.  The surround sound element can also be obtained from the stereo version by using a receiver with Prologic II or a similar upmixer, but the 5.1 is needed to hear the extra bass content, which by all accounts was a very important aspect of the way the film sounded back then.  Again, note that aside from the powerful bass, removal of extra sounds, and being pre-upmixed in software, the majority of it will sound exactly the same as the Definitive Collection mix.  It's about as close to the original as you can get short of a transfer of the real thing.

dark_jedi said:

you guys are always free to make your own audio, it is very easy to rip it and replace with your own, I will use whatever bit rate it takes to put these on there, I want this to be my last set I ever do, because all I really care about is getting a retail Blu-ray release anyway, so I want to get this as good as I can and get as many different audio options as I can, and the video is at 6500 and that will not change.

so if you don't like what I put out, like I said above, make your own.

DJ,

I think the dilemma is that a few of the audio files derive from your raw masters, so all subsequent versions would be derived from whatever you put on here. Thus, IMO it is important to put priority on the newly available mixes here--theatrical and 1985. Unless you are willing to give out the raw files. But a lot of people probably won't even know to ask you. So, for what its worth, if you get into space issues I would sacrifice the bitrate on whatever pre-existing sources you are using so that the new mixes will be in as best quality possible, as this will probably be the source for everyone else to rip from.

Also, this is a question for the video side:

I was impressed by a screenshot posted in another thread of your latest pass, but I see that there is still niceable softening of the image. Do you know what causes this? Is it the anti-aliasing that smoothes out everything trying to get rid of the jaggies, or is it the grain removal that does it trying to scrub out the grain? Or is it both? Or are you basically just using g-force's scripts and don't know too much about the technical side of things?

Wasn't the GOUT already yellow-biased? Maybe that's why I thought the cantina scene on DJ's version looked so yellow, if it's been pushed even further that way. Doesn't look right to me.

The DC itself is actually red-biased. It's also less saturated than the GOUT, and has wider latitude in the contrast. The GOUT represents a good, punched up version of the DC, but IMO every time people try to push it further the results don't look natural.

zombie84 said:

Wasn't the GOUT already yellow-biased? Maybe that's why I thought the cantina scene on DJ's version looked so yellow, if it's been pushed even further that way. Doesn't look right to me.

How the HELL can you nitpick something you have NOT even seen yet? I have posted no images or samples, your bitching is getting really old now, why don't you just be happy with your editdroid v3 set and be done with it, this set will SUCK for you, you DON'T want it, and you DON'T need it, damn enough already.

this will be my last post for a while, I need a damn break from this shit for a while.

dark_jedi said:

zombie84 said:

Wasn't the GOUT already yellow-biased? Maybe that's why I thought the cantina scene on DJ's version looked so yellow, if it's been pushed even further that way. Doesn't look right to me.

How the HELL can you nitpick something you have NOT even seen yet? I have posted no images or samples, your bitching is getting really old now, why don't you just be happy with your editdroid v3 set and be done with it, this set will SUCK for you, you DON'T want it, and you DON'T need it, damn enough already.

this will be my last post for a while, I need a damn break from this shit for a while.

 I was referring to the old one. And more specifically, to g-force, since it was his script in question (which you based your transfers on). I was just commenting that it doesn't surprise me, given the yellowness I perceived in the previous versions. Its good that you have already dealt with this according to msycamore.

I'm sorry the project is stressing you out. I am offering constructive criticism here, which ultimately is intended for the benefit of the project, everyone who does this stuff has trial and error and things they miss and varying opinions on matters. If you can't deal with that, don't publically post it. Besides which, I was commenting on a previous version that wasn't even instigated by you anyway, as I understand the yellow-bias was something from g-force.

I think a fair amount of people have sort of latched on to this project and expect it to be the 'ultimate' fan-created edition, the final say on the films until they are officially and legitimately restored.  It's important to remember that Star Wars is many things to many people, and that with so much variation in individual experiences and preferences, and considering the source materials available to work from, no single version is going to completely satisfy everyone.  Some people want more grain and less noise reduction.  Some people want their favourite audio mix to be included.  And some people want every single option and extra to be present all in one version.  But there must be some restraint of expectation, because otherwise dark_jedi's going to go crazy and still not everyone will be 100% happy.  So--to be reasonable, please!  :p

Specific technical questions about the video should be directed primarily to G-Force, since it is his AviSynth script processing that is being used.  There is a thread devoted to that topic already, though it is down on page 2 of the forum at the moment.  http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/GOUT-image-stabilization/topic/9038/

For my part, I'm happy to answer any questions about the audio.  Dunedain, I'm going to answer you and continue the 70mm discussion in its own thread also so I don't fill this one up too much--I do tend to go on at length sometimes.  lol

Edit--see here for the answer to Dunedain's questions about the 70mm mix compared to the SE: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-1977-70mm-sound-mix-recreation-stereo-and-51-versions-now-available/post/421106/#TopicPost421106

@zombie

"If you can't deal with that, don't publically post it." first off who the hell are you to even say that LOL, no one! and my problem with you is this, you KEEP saying the same things over and over, and you keep complaining about an OLD version, I mean really if you want to complain about the new version, well that is a different matter, but you are not, so how do you know that all the stuff you keep bitching about isn't already addressed? g-force has made several script updates since that version you keep talking about, and everything he has done with that works together, he has even made separate scripts for each movie now instead of 1 for all, because of all the different issues he was working with.

So why don't you head over to his thread, grab the latest script, and make your own encode and take a look at the results, now that sounds like a plan doesn't it? also you said the only reason you are following this set is for the audio, well go to the newsgroups and download the source files and there you go, all audio options are there for you, that is a good plan to I reckon.

I have said this before and I will say it again, this set I am doing now is for those people that do not have the time, avisynth know how(setting up all the plugins and running), or a powerful enough PC to get the job done in a decent amount of time, plus adding all the other audio options(or at least some).

I really don't want to sit here and argue with you anymore because frankly, it is not worth it, you are very heavily biased to the editdroid set and that is fine, I am heavily biased towards this set, so grab the audio from the groups and be done with it already.

Later dude

dark_jedi said:

@zombie

"If you can't deal with that, don't publically post it." first off who the hell are you to even say that LOL

 I'm not the one bitching every time someone has a piece of well-informed and constructive criticism.

and my problem with you is this, you KEEP saying the same things over and over, and you keep complaining about an OLD version, I mean really if you want to complain about the new version, well that is a different matter, but you are not, so how do you know that all the stuff you keep bitching about isn't already addressed?

Again--I wasn't saying this set was no good because of the old version. A discussion came up which made reference to the old version, which I contributed some information on (coloring on GOUT, DC and the g-force scripts). It was also said that the new one used the yellow-shifted version,  although that wasn't what I was commenting on per se, but as far as people "in the know" are reporting it seems to be relevant anyway.

I really don't want to sit here and argue with you anymore because frankly, it is not worth it, you are very heavily biased to the editdroid set and that is fine, I am heavily biased towards this set, so grab the audio from the groups and be done with it already.

Later dude

I'm actually not heavily biased towards the ED, it's far from ideal, it just happens to be the best there is at the moment. My comments here are in the interest of helping you surpass that version. You need to stop getting your panties in a wad every time someone points out something that could stand to be improved. Our community is awesome because there are a lot of knowledgable people here and we don't let things slip by that are less than ideal. I'm not saying your efforts are mediocre, they are quite impressive. I'm just saying--I have been very respectful and have been offering constructive remarks. You seem to have a knee jerk reaction whenever I have a criticism, even if it's simply part of another conversation and I'm not meaning it in a negative light. Just relax.

Seriously though, why don't you go get the scripts and run your own encodes of the scenes in question(you can use the trim() command), then you will know for sure what is going on now with the new version, I am not posting sample clips because I like it and am spending to much time trying to get this together than upload a bunch of samples, also here is where all the audio files are for the GOUT.

http://binsearch.info/?server=&max=250&g=alt.binaries.starwars&a=GOUT%40GOUT.com+%28GOUT%29

and on the Cantina scene you mentioned, I personally think it looks great, especially with msycamores subs in there, I had my own subs in there(this is the only part of g-force's script I did not like) but msycamores looks a lot better.

In all this negativity I'd just like to give dark_jedi something a little positive. I'd like to thank him for all his hard work gone into encoding all versions that he has worked on. The previous still stands as a magnificant achievement in giving people something significantly better than the standard GOUT dvds. I for one cherish the previous versions he has encoded and welcome any improvements/additions to the next encode.

Keep up the good work! I can't wait to see the next encode! :-)

Thanks.

Keep up the hard work, dark_jedi!  :-)  I am sure this will look great, and really appreciate all your effort. 

Just wanted to add my voice of support, DJ.  The samples look amazing and I cannot wait for this set to be part of my collection.

I'm curious, are the dark_jedi versions upconverts to 720p or 1080p? I can't seem to find any info on resolution. Any benefits to upconversion?

They're not, and no, there really wouldn't be any benefits to upconverting.