Star Wars Episode II: The Galaxy Divided (The Brash Cut) - CANCELLED — Page 8

I'm still thinking of a good way to link the dart to Kamino without the Jedi seeming presumptuous. (I mean just because it was made on Kamino doesn't mean the person using it is anything to do with the planet, let alone that he'd still reside there)

At the moment, my ideas are:

1. It's made from a specific alloy that's being used to create republic weaponry for the army - in the facility on Kamino, no less.

2. Solar radiation signature analysis shows that it's spent a significant amount of time under the sun of the planet Kamino. A planet with only one facility above water - where the clone army is being created.

I want to distance Boba from the army as much as possible so that the Jedi don't look as stupid. I'd still love to be able to find a way that he not be anything to do with the army at all. The best way I can think of right now to distance Boba from the army, and make his role in its creation less pivotal is to redub the kaminoan prime minister so that he mentions that a bounty hunter has been there for a few months, and they've been harvesting his genetic material in order to make improvements to the troops - NOT have him be the sole genetic host for the clones. However I don't think this can be pulled off effectively. Not enough responses from Obi Wan, let alone the nightmare of lip syncing.

The other alternative would involve cutting Kamino completely (easily done if you don't care about the run-time and you certainly don't lose anything story-wise) however, it would involve Boba being on Geonosis, and therefore affiliated with the Seperatists who I want to be essentially good.

Dooku's only motivation in the original cut (even as a bad guy) for assassinating Amidala was......hang on.....what WAS his motivation? I mean I can see what Palpatine's was. He wanted her dead because she was opposing the military creation act, and if that failed, Jango leading Obi to the seperatists would kickstart the war and get him what he wanted anyway. But what was Dooku getting out of this? He was dumbfounded by the fact that the republic came up with an army so quickly, so he was obviously out of the loop on that one. And he can't have wanted her dead because she was against the creation of a military, because thanks to people like her, his forces were unopposed!

Oh George.

Anyway, to go back to your question, no I haven't attempted the redubbing yet, because the script for the analysis droids isn't decided yet. However, I do have a new toy on the way ready for when recording begins:

Nice, eh?

its just an opinion but I never minded the kamino sequences, plus jango as a character is pretty cool, a scientific explanation is the way to go, i like the mineral idea, something that requires the humidity of the planet to form perhaps

so the droids could say something along the lines of

' the intermetallic alloy has been identified as a rare combination of elements formed under high pressure and consistently very high humidity, the only known region that could sustain this type of chemical reaction is the planet kamino

Dooku didn't want her dead for his own reasons.  Nute Gunray did - he made her death one of his conditions for joining the Separatists, and Dooku obliged.

Darth Cadavra said:

Dooku didn't want her dead for his own reasons.  Nute Gunray did - he made her death one of his conditions for joining the Separatists, and Dooku obliged.

 THIS

Ah yes, good point. I forgot about Gunray's god awful line about not signing anything until her head is on his desk.

In any case, there are too many lapses in logic conflicting with goals for any of this to make sense. As Red Letter Media says, it comes across as a script written by an eight year old.

Anyway, it's all a moot point. Dooku will not be a Sith in my edit, nor will any members of the seperatists be responsible for the attempts on Amidala's life. Althought the republic and the Jedi don't see it this way.

Are you still looking for clean sound FX Brash? There is a library over at TheForce.net: http://theforce.net/fanfilms/postproduction/index.asp I haven't checked the files, but there may be something there for you.

I also watched your arena clip, and if you don't mind, I have some feedback as well:

I thought Dooku looking concerned when Padme got cut by the creature didn't really fit. He has no connection to her, whereas Gunray does. You already have him upset over defeating her creature, so why not have him be happy with the creature cutting her?

I think you made a bit of a mess of Anakin's "story" in this scene. There is no logical flow of events: he jumps on the creature, disappears from the scene for quite a while, and then the next time we see him, he's off the creature again, even though we never see him fall off. It's all a bit jumbled. I think the least you can do is show him riding out of frame, then later have a short bit with him falling off, getting back on, and then get back to rescue Padme. That way you could still cut the dicey looking stuff, but also keep things logical. It's a nice idea to see him tame the creature with the Force, as the music cue indicates, but again you don't really follow up on it by showing him jump on the creature. In your cut, it feels like he comes out of nowhere when he's riding into the shot to save Padme.

The appearance of the Jedi is a bit too sudden, I think, but the musical cue first very nicely!

The battle in the arena is rather messy, so I don't think you've made it better or worse. I do think you should've kept Padme's part of the quip (unless you cut that earlier in the movie). You have to stay with the characters in a scene like this, and little bits of dialogue help (plus, the OT characters had time to crack wise most of the time during battles as well :P).

We kind of "lose" Mace in the battle. I think it's important to keep him involved in it, since he's a recognizable character. It's a bit more interesting to see him fighting instead of a bunch of name- and faceless extra's.

What happens to Anakin's creature in the battle? We lose him as well.

The original cut of the scene didn't have this either and I don't know if it's possible, but maybe it's an idea to change the music into something more grim when we see more Jedi dying and the remaining ones are being surrounded? It might give the whole scene a bit more weight.

I hope you'll see this as constructive feedback, and I hope it might help!

I agree with SilverKey on most of it.

 I also think it'd be cool to, if possible, show some sort of ship before Mace just falls from the sky. It was a bit odd, he just came out of nowhere. Also, it just seems flat, more dialogue couldn't hurt (I don't think). Again just some constructive critics, I like the idea a lot.

SilverKey said:

Are you still looking for clean sound FX Brash? There is a library over at TheForce.net: http://theforce.net/fanfilms/postproduction/index.asp I haven't checked the files, but there may be something there for you.

I already have all the sounds from this pack, but I'm still grateful for the suggestion and hope people will continue to come forward with others.

SilverKey said:

I thought Dooku looking concerned when Padme got cut by the creature didn't really fit. He has no connection to her, whereas Gunray does. You already have him upset over defeating her creature, so why not have him be happy with the creature cutting her?

Well I'm trying to make Dooku a rogue jedi and a good person, so whether he had a connection to Padme or not, my interpretation is that he would still be bothered by the situation. (the jedi being the guardians of peace and justice and all). There's a distinct lack of opportunities in an AOTC edit to portray Dooku as having redeeming qualities, and I think this is one of very few. As for Gunray having a vendetta against her, this is also something I'm trying to downplay (and an episode 1 edit if I ever get around to one would reflect that).

SilverKey said:

I think you made a bit of a mess of Anakin's "story" in this scene. There is no logical flow of events: he jumps on the creature, disappears from the scene for quite a while, and then the next time we see him, he's off the creature again, even though we never see him fall off. It's all a bit jumbled. I think the least you can do is show him riding out of frame, then later have a short bit with him falling off, getting back on, and then get back to rescue Padme. That way you could still cut the dicey looking stuff, but also keep things logical. It's a nice idea to see him tame the creature with the Force, as the music cue indicates, but again you don't really follow up on it by showing him jump on the creature. In your cut, it feels like he comes out of nowhere when he's riding into the shot to save Padme.

Here I'd be inclined to strongly disagree with you. Not everything needs to be seen or explained. The audience can figure out themselves what has happened out of frame. Something Lucas doesn't seem to understand, so he decides to patronise us by explaining everything - which is especially ironic when you consider that his story makes no sense. But I digress...

I think the audience not actually seeing Anakin mounting  the Beast (which is currently done in such an unelegant haphazard way that it, IMO, cheapens it) has a lot more impact when you finally see him come to the rescue, completely in control. This is in stark contrast to being dragged around like a n00b and then subduing it through brute force as opposed to using his mind (something I think a great, and most of all likeable, Jedi would do)

SilverKey said:

The appearance of the Jedi is a bit too sudden, I think, but the musical cue first very nicely!

snicket said:

 I also think it'd be cool to, if possible, show some sort of ship before Mace just falls from the sky. It was a bit odd, he just came out of nowhere. Also, it just seems flat, more dialogue couldn't hurt (I don't think). Again just some constructive critics, I like the idea a lot.

In order to make it less sudden, I've wanted to build up to the Jedi appearing by showing them arriving from hyperspace. This is something I've been wanting to do for a while, and SSWR's Arena mockup features the Jedi arriving in their starfighters. Me and him seem to have a lot of the same ideas. I guess it's on account of us both being geniuses ;)

SilverKey said:

The battle in the arena is rather messy, so I don't think you've made it better or worse. I do think you should've kept Padme's part of the quip (unless you cut that earlier in the movie). You have to stay with the characters in a scene like this, and little bits of dialogue help (plus, the OT characters had time to crack wise most of the time during battles as well :P).

Agreed that the battle is still pretty messy. This is only a rough draft, and whilst I'm not convinced I'll be able to make huge improvements, I'll certainly have a go at making it less chaotic.

As for Padme's line. NO! lol. Even if I had kept the scene earlier in the film where the line stems from, her delivery is just awful, and it's just overkill in my opinion. I think it works fine as Anakin just making a sarcastic quip and then the action continuing.
The way I see it, this line stems from the kind of thinking that led to the speeder chase dialogue at the beginning being so bland. Obi Wan says "what took you so long?" and Anakin quips "I couldn't find a speeder that I really liked". It should have ended there. Perfect Star Wars joke, but it went on and on with him talking about the speed capabilities, and rivalling master yoda as a swordsman. Overkill. And I felt the same exact way with Padme's reply.

SilverKey said:

We kind of "lose" Mace in the battle. I think it's important to keep him involved in it, since he's a recognizable character. It's a bit more interesting to see him fighting instead of a bunch of name- and faceless extra's.

I think a lot of people want to downplay Mace's "look at me. I'm Sam Jackson" significance in the battle. Because at the end of the day, that's the only reason we see any more of him than any other Jedi. His character certainly doesn't warrant that much attention. When you start saying we should see more of him than other characters just because he's more recognizable, the movie becomes distinctly self reflexive, and in my opinion, more of a farce, as it's catering to people who want to see the actor, not the character. His purple saber will go for this very reason.

SilverKey said:

I hope you'll see this as constructive feedback, and I hope it might help!

 

Oh I do! And whilst I've disagreed with you on most of your points, I've attempted to be objective in justifying my choices. Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from, and hopefully others will agree with me on some points, and I won't be completely alone in my logic or tastes. However it's all unavoidably subjective. What works for me clearly doesn't work for others so I appreciate the feedback!

brash_stryker said:

I think the audience not actually seeing Anakin mounting  the Beast...

Please please please don't show us that!

This is still stupid because Gunray joins anyway without Padme being killed.  ???

Maybe he wasn't expecting the Republic to come to Geonosis, and figured that once the war broke out and they found out about his presence there, he was already in too deep to back out?

TV's Frink said:

brash_stryker said:

I think the audience not actually seeing Anakin mounting  the Beast...

Please please please don't show us that!

I knew it would be you to pick up on that! :p

brash_stryker said:

I should have known!

Okay, here's what you can do with Obi-Wan's hunt for Fett to separate it from Kamino.  Perhaps the Jedi analysis droids determine the dart to be Mandalorian in origin, and you can construct dialogue somewhere (radio plays, audiobooks, manipulating the film's own dialogue) that informs Kenobi of a bounty hunter named Fett who wears the armor of the Mandalorians.  How you go about Obi-Wan directly locating Fett is up to you.

Replacing some of the Kamino Prime Minister's dialogue in the cloning facilities can be easy enough if you can keep that dialogue in cutaways to the clones.  If you don't see him on the screen, you needn't worry about matching his lip movements.  It comes down to the voice matching consistently.  It might be necessary to replace all his dialogue to achieve this if it is that crucial to your edit.

-NJM

Nicholas J. Michalak said:

Replacing some of the Kamino Prime Minister's dialogue in the cloning facilities can be easy enough if you can keep that dialogue in cutaways to the clones.  If you don't see him on the screen, you needn't worry about matching his lip movements.  It comes down to the voice matching consistently.  It might be necessary to replace all his dialogue to achieve this if it is that crucial to your edit.

-NJM

It's not the redubbing itself that's problematic, but finding suitable responses from Obi Wan that make sense in regard to what he's being told. Even if I did cobble together responses from Ewan Mcgregor's body of work, there are limited cutaways to work with. Plus the fact we need to cut back to him speaking the original dialogue at least at some point, which makes creating new responses even more problematic as they have to be incorporated between some of his existing responses too and therefore must make sense and flow from one to the other.

Any new dialogue for Lama Su would have to be reverse engineered based on what Ewan Dialogue we'd have to work with, if that makes any sense. And even then, you're extremely limited by the cutaways and have to take the original dialogue into account when choosing obi lines......which in turn affects the lama su lines. Yeah, it's pretty confusing.

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm certainly going to try. And I do actually have a few ideas ;)

And if I'm going to be redubbing this part, it's only natural I take full advantage and insert new dialogue into the previous Lama Su scene (seeing as I'm cutting all the Sifo Dyas bollocks)

The more ideas I get, the more daunting this project becomes. There are changes I really want to make, but don't even know if they're possible. Nevertheless I'll still bring them up even if they are beyond the scope of my abilities or resources.

I've always hated the Kaminoans. The way they look, the way they talk, everything about them. Plus they sound too human for something so alien.

In my eyes, a society of cloners shown to a human audience should be humans themselves, but drastically enhanced/altered due to them having played god to such an extent. It would have more of an impact if they're something alien, but not so alien that we don't care.

I'm imagining very tall (obi wan must look up to talk to them) grey/sallow skin, something replacing/covering their mouths (as all their sustenance would be supplied artificially).

Basically like a very tall Darth Malak from Kotor, but without the tattoos or evilness. And in some kind of sterile looking jumpsuit rather than sith armour.

This would require filming live action footage, and compositing it over the existing kaminoans. I wouldn't foresee a huge problem with the scene where they're sat in the chairs as everything looks so hazy and fake that compositing can't make it look any worse, but I'm wondering if it's even possible for the corridor scenes.

Now as I said, this is no doubt beyond the scope of my abilities or resources, so I will also post this in the radical redux thread.

Huh.  The Kamino chaps were one of things I liked about AOTC, but to each his/her own.

Well lucky for you, I'm clearly not going to be able to change them drastically. :p A redub would seem to be the most realistic approach if I can pull it off.

There's always the option of giving them an alien language with subtitles.  That does still leave Obi-Wan's dialogue to deal with, but it's something to consider.

-NJM

Well the microphone arrived. It's a monster!