Cool! Did you get any insights as to why she wasn't in TSFS?
Where were you in '77?
I swear I'm going to go back and read the rest of this thread but right now I really need to get this off my chest right now.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!
What the fuckety fucking hell is wrong with this franchise?! I really, really wanted to like this movie. Despite how lukewarm (at best) I felt about the 2009 one, I was trying to believe that now that they'd wasted two hours justifying the existence of a reboot (rather than just, you know, rebooting) that they could actually tell a story this time.
Well, I was kinda right. There is *something* of a story here. But it's really nothing more complex than a bad guy needing to get shot down with a little bit of character development for Kirk.
But the thing is, it just kept teasing me over and over and over again that this film might actually be *about* something. Ooh, maybe it's about this primitive race worshiping Starfleet as gods and some good discussions about the Prime Directive. Oh, wait, no, it's just a throwaway gag. And explain to me again why submerging the Enterprise underwater was supposedly necessary.
Then I thought they were really gonna backtrack on the idiocy of the last movie and actually show that Kirk truly is not ready to be in the captain's chair and really have to work his way back up, unlike the last time where it just got thrown in his lap with no justification. Like I said, they did kinda end up doing that, but first they spend about twenty minutes just dicking around for no reason. "Oh, you're back in the academy. No, wait, you're actually first officer now. Oh, wait, no, you're still captain. Just like you were before. What was the point of this again...?"
Then I thought it was going to be about Section 31 and the ethics of militarism, and there was a good scene between Kirk and Scotty about that before Scotty runs off (and what is it about this franchise that seems dead set against Scotty actually being the engineer of this ship?) and then it's never, ever, ever, ever, EVER dealt with again. The admiral (who is the same, underdeveloped Texan warmonger from Avatar) just becomes a bad guy that needs to be thumped. He is, and Starfleet's actions are never mentioned again. It's just there to give Khan a big ship to do big ship stuff with. I'm not the guy to go harping on about Gene's vision because I usually disagree with it, but even I have to say the man would probably be rolling over in his grave over how casually members of Starfleet just up and turn evil in this movie!
So, yeah, once again, this movie is about nothing. It's just a long stretch of boring as hell action sequences that go on for too long. I thought it was going to be cool that Chekov was the chief engineer, but that didn't amount to anything. I thought it was going to be cool that Carol Marcus was in this movie... but she didn't do anything. Why was she even here? What? Did Zoe Saldana refuse to take off her clothes again, and we had a bra and panty quota to fulfill?
And then there's the death scene flip, which is, quite frankly, self-parody. I will say I did like Kirk's line about being scared, but, really, I just didn't feel like this Kirk and Spock were close enough friends to justify this. It just didn't work for me. And while, for half a second, I thought maybe they'd have the balls to actually kill Kirk off, I then realized, "Oh, yeah. Magic Zombie Tribble. That's the key to bringing him back to life." So, yeah, Kirk died a pointless death that didn't affect the story in any way.
But what really pisses me off the most is what positive reviews this and the last one have gotten. I swear that I want to understand why people think these are good! Please! Make me understand! Because all I see are two pointless, shallow, action flicks, and that's not why I watch Star Trek!
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
Welcome to the disappointed club, Gaffer. ;)
Putting on my screenwriter's 101 cap, I think Carol Marcus is there as a bit of a red herring, because they were banking on every old school fan thinking those mystery torpedoes were proto Genesis devices. Unless she and Kirk hook up next movie, and she gets knocked up, there's no real payoff here.
I really thought several months ago mister mystery villain would turn out to be Captain Garth. After all, who would be crazy enough to have Khan in Starfleet? ;)
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Garth_of_Izar
Someone Kirk held in high regard as a role model, and now is tasked with capturing or killing would have been a good moral dilemma. Instead, we got a TWOK redo wrapped in a sub par 9/11 allegory.
Starfleet admirals behaving badly was done much better in TUC.
Where were you in '77?
Starfleet Admirals Behaving Badly sounds like a softcore porn direct to video franchise that really needs to be made.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
Is it just me, or did a breath of very fresh air just gush through this thread?
Wooo! Well said, Gaff. I miss your regularness in these here parts.
Apparently a brouhaha has begun over Carol Marcus' underwear scene, and one of the scriptwriters has apologized.
This is hilarious given the bigger issues with the movie. It's a darn good thing we didn't have internet in 1983, with all that Slave Leia business. ;)
Where were you in '77?
SilverWook said:
Cool! Did you get any insights as to why she wasn't in TSFS?
If memory serves, she felt it was a film and script that was meant to focus mostly on the original crew searching for Spock, and she was not interested in a brief cameo roll. If she was present, there would have had to be a romantic or coming to terms dynamic and plot device between her character and Kirk, and she and Harve Bennett felt that it would not have fit within this episode time allotment.
“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison
Saw it in IMAX 3D, my wallet hurt but my intelligence wasn't.
7 out of 10.
I figured out pretty early on that Khan wasn't going to be the only villain this time around, but I didn't suspect the twist with Admiral Marcus being such a hothead. Was surprised they referenced more from Space Seed and TOS than TWOK.
Did we see the same film?
^That was the same thing I was thinking!
SilverWook said:
Apparently a brouhaha has begun over Carol Marcus' underwear scene, and one of the scriptwriters has apologized.
http://trekmovie.com/2013/05/23/sexy-or-sexist-how-star-trek-into-darkness-turned-heroines-into-damsels-in-distress/
This is hilarious given the bigger issues with the movie. It's a darn good thing we didn't have internet in 1983, with all that Slave Leia business. ;)
Uhura She was only in the last film as eye candy and a Spock love interest.
Not very progressive but they are selling a commercialized product not a Religion or political movement.
How about how Militarized star trek is in the last 2 films? Not a peep about that.
Space revenge with lots of explosions. Exploring the human condition, and strange new worlds what is that oh right star trek. This surely is not my father's star trek.
Its funny seeing the whole reason the series de-evolved to this is wrath of khan and that dealt with death, age and loss in a much more intelligent way. A bit of all types of classic literature thrown in for good measure.
Khan's success made the lazy people in the franchise try to recreate that same movie over and over again.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
How is Starfleet more militaristic than in any of the older films?
Where were you in '77?
SilverWook said:
How is Starfleet more militaristic than in any of the older films?
See: Any film where they're in the red uniforms, but especially the central conflict of ST:VI:TUC
timdiggerm said:
SilverWook said:
How is Starfleet more militaristic than in any of the older films?
See: Any film where they're in the red uniforms, but especially the central conflict of ST:VI:TUC
Starfleet never actually engaged the Klingon's as a whole, only Enterprise/Excelsior fought a rogue General and prevented an assassination.
Also someone on the IMDB board noticed something strange. When Kirk and Spock are discussing being assigned as diplomats, there is a woman sitting in the background.
My theory is that it was Valeris in disguise, it's the only way she would've known about Kirk wanting the Klingons dead. Of course this may have been a mistake, but it explains a lot.
In which Orci outs Lindelof as being the pro-Khan push
Let the OT.com-Lindelof-hate-fest continue...
Lindelof... I should have known...
If they hadn't used Khan this time, the question would have been asked every movie forever.
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Yeah and hopefully they would have waited until they had found the Sikh something worth doing.
Orci: "I only want to be on Star Trek as long as I’m useful and helpful to what Star Trek is. The minute that I’m a burden on it, then I should not be here. I want the best idea to win. Hopefully, if this movie works, Paramount will be thinking about a third movie and, if I have the best idea, I should win. If I don’t, someone else should win. That’s how much I love Star Trek. The best idea should win, period."
Did he ask anyone besides Lindelof? He could have asked me...
I came up with a Star Trek 09 sequel where the Enterprise uses Spock Prime's knowledge of the future to preemptively meet V'ger thousands of light years from Earth. The Enterprise is seen as an infested organism like in the original, but in this timeline the ship is transported by V'ger to the machine planet that originally accepted Voyager, and Enterprise is given sentience to fulfill the mission that its crew is so unwilling to accomplish:
"To explore strange new worlds; to seek out new life forms and new civilizations; to boldly go where no man has gone before."
Therefore the crew is forced to deal with a ship that will go anywhere in the universe except for Earth and the planets of the Federation.
I think that it's a better story than KHAN! again.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Your idea relies too much on the audience knowing the original film.
STID relies as much on people knowing the OS and TWOK.
timdiggerm said:
In which Orci outs Lindelof as being the pro-Khan push
Let the OT.com-Lindelof-hate-fest continue...
That is why I feel that STID is the "Prometheus" of the Star Trek franchise.
SPFX Look Great, Good Actors, Wonderful Established Universe, Competent Director, Lots of Unexplored Story Potential and Seemingly Abandoned Plot Threads, and a Shit Script
“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison
So this just happened:
roberto orci @boborci
“@tobar1p: @boborci You shouldn't have caved to @DamonLindelof on Kahn.” I didn't. I agreed:)
Well naturally he is going to wish to continue to eat in that town and wouldn't dream of calling that 'mysteriously placed whoopie cushion of a writer' anything less than a genius ;-D
FanFiltration said:
timdiggerm said:
In which Orci outs Lindelof as being the pro-Khan push
Let the OT.com-Lindelof-hate-fest continue...
That is why I feel that STID is the "Prometheus" of the Star Trek franchise.
SPFX Look Great, Good Actors, Wonderful Established Universe, Competent Director, Lots of Unexplored Story Potential and Seemingly Abandoned Plot Threads, and a Shit Script
And what do they both have in common???
Space ships landing on planets.
And Damon Lindelof
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