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Space War, Hyperspace, Fuel, etc... How it all works (or doesn't)

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So, I've been thinking a little recently:

How would a "war" in space actually play out?  I would think it would have 4 "layers" if you will:

1. Planetside (ground troop, tanks, etc...)

2. Air/Lower Space (fighters dogfighting and providing support to the ground troops, Shuttles bringing ground troops to and from the battlefield)

3. Outerspace/Near Orbit (including capital ships launching the hardware/troops for the two other layers)

4. Strategic (Controlling whole planets, "shipping lanes", etc.  Everything else would be a battle, this would be the war.)

The Rebellion of the OT shows more "Guerilla" warfare than traditional warfare.  From what we can tell, the Imperials outclass the Rebels in technology and number.  (The Rebels making up for it with Pluckiness and the Power of Positive Thinking (and teddy bears!))  So their attacks are less of a full affront, but more with small strategic strikes being made from hidden bases.

What would a full on war with two more or less equal sides look like in space?

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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So, my first question is this:

Do all 4 layers occur simultaneously, or is the winning of one the gateway to entering the other?

For example:

Team A holds Planet X.  That is to say they are in control of the surface, the air and near orbit space.  Team B wants to take Planet X from Team A's control.  Must Team B win some sort of victory or create some kind of foothold in near orbit space before they can launch troops and arament to the surface?  Or do all three layers happen simultaneously?  Must Team B control strategic space near the planet before they can even begin the other?  What does a "front" look like in space based warfare?

I think there's a temptation in Science Fiction/Space Fantasy to transpose Earth based warfare one-to-one to space, and it doesn't seem to really work very well.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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 (Edited)

This is actually a very interesting topic, and something that is kind of fun to ponder. Unfortunately I haven't had the brain power to make a really good response yet.

 

I suppose, ultimately, it would work very much like it does in the real world. I suppose space battles would be a lot like sea battles. Distances, fuel, etc. would be a very heavy concern. The Star Destroyers in Star Wars as a type of aircraft carrier seems very well thought out. I'd go a head and say that you likely would need to create footholds, finding a strategic base near enough to the target to be practical for refueling and repairs. If a planet fortifies itself, then an invader would need to break through their defenses before continuing the attack on the ground. The same ships this invader used for breaking through the enemy lines to get to the surface of the planet, would likely not be suited for capturing targets on the ground. So again, SW has some very well thought out ideas with things like the AT-ATs and other war machines designed for surface combat.

To address the pondering of what a "front" might look like, I have always kind of imagined this as some network defense around the planet, perhaps a fleet of ships, or a series of satellites or defense stations that are intended to keep enemy ships from being able to enter the atmosphere. I'd imagine the conquering of a planet from start to finish going as follows,

- Invader sends their forces toward the planet, most likely from a base within the closest distance possible.

- Defending planet consentrates all its resources to fending off the attacking fleet. If it succeeds, all is well, and they probably have a lot of ships to collect salvage from. If they fail...

- Invader takes out all of Planet X's planetary defensive forces, which would likely mean every last ship in their fleet. From here, they head to the surface, where likely a ground army is preparing to do their best at fighting off the invaders. Perhaps there would even be non-space worthy aircraft involved at blasting away at the incoming ships. Also very likely ground to air missles and other such forms of defense. Assuming the invader is strong enough to hold together through such an onslaught...

- Invader begins sending out ground forces to capture important buildings and locations.

 

I see invading a planet to be a bit like peeling an onion. So I don't think there would be that many cases of battles raging on all layers at once. Of course, it would be unreasonable to think every planet would be so well defended, so likely in many cases the battle might begin on the surface. I'd also imagine that many wars between well developed planets might never even see a ground battle, and that all the fighting would take place in space, as those defenses would be quite a lot to breach.

 

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Thanks for the reply.  I've been racking my brain trying to come up with other sci-fi stories that include space battles (which is most of them) which are part of an actual "war" (which is fewer of them) wherein it is between forces more or less equal in number and tech (which is practically none of them).

I really dig the three layered battle at the end of RotJ.  The intercutting of the ground, space, and lightsabre battles really does it for me.  But it seems that the only way of getting the ground battle started was by sneaking a stolen imperial shuttle to the ground.  Those forces were secretly in place when the space battle started.

My friend was saying that large ships could jump into a system, deploy small landing craft (almost the equivalent of para-troopers) and then jump out before the defense systems/ships could respond-  That it wasn't necessary to win a space battle before taking to the planet... but I guess you'd want to win the space battle or else you'd be stuck on the surface.  :(

Another friend was telling me about the PC MMO called EVE.  That interstellar travel is accomplished through worm-holes and that the battlefronts are moved whenever control of the worm-holes changes hands.  That's interesting, but I guess it has me more convinced that the "unlimited" travel of Star Wars makes a "front in space" something of an impossibility.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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It is sad there are so few feature-length space war films. There are no Battle of Jutland ironclad slugfests, and no age-of-sail ship-of-the-line slugfests other than ROTJ or ROTS. Starship troopers has decent projection of alien planetary defense layers. BSG03 had useful depictions of space/surface combat. Independence Day was a decent synthesis of the genre. It cannot really inform your question. You can check Wrath of Khan for some classic age-of-sail cat and mouse combat. Undiscovered Country as well. Aliens and Predator offer ground force insight.

One thing I think it is critical to have clearly in mind is what is the resource value of the objective, in terms of what the technology can do with or without. Are planets absolutely critical? What fuels and materials are needed and are they found solely on planets? When you start postulating combat in a Kardashev III you need to be aware that they may be as tied to planets as modern civilization is tied to port cities. (We used to be; we no longer are.)

Like the Guns of Navarone, the primacy of Hoth surface defenses vis-a-vis orbital offense rings true. A planet can simply support guns more massive than what can easily be lugged in. But then on the surface, beneath the ion cannon, minute-oriented mobility generally trumps macro-oriented stability. Useful: Maginot Line.

SW EU has a useful craft called the interdictor which forces ships out of hyperspace. I assume there'd be silver bullets that can punch through such interdiction while ordinary military craft would be halted. It rings true to life that there is always an arms race between predator and prey, between offensive weapon and defense.

The ISD serves generally as both aircraft carrier and battleship - there's got to be some delicate balance between the two roles, and there's got to be capital ships specialized to roles.

There could also be forms of cyber warfare on a galactic scale.

Useful to know: Sun Tzu and great battles like Thermopylae, Salamis, Syracuse, Cannae, Carthage, Tyre, Actium, Hastings, Agincourt, etcetc.

Useful books: EON, Ender's Game, Gateway.

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I was talking to my brother and he pointed out something that seems rather obvious now that he's said it. The battle wouldn't go to ground unless you had intention to occupy. Maybe you want to use it as a staging base or maybe there's a resource there you want to capture. Maybe you want to hold the inhabitants hostage or slave... But if you just want to neutralize the enemies encampment... you'd just bomb it. Probably from space.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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This is how I imagine it would work:

Germaaine's ruler decides that the whole galaxy shoud speak Germaa. He sends an invasion force to the planet Polis.

Britonah declares interplanetary war on Germaiine.

Germaaine then invades Hothand and Belgin. Francia immediately surrenders.

Germaaine's plans to invade Britonah are delayed when they lose the fighter battle in the exosphere. So instead they decide to blast the f*ck out of all major cities on the planet.

While the inhabitants of Merikaan are all watching what's going on in that part of the galaxy, a force from Japin 4 launches a surprise raid and destroys most of their war fleet.

Italo sides with Germaaine and shows off its droid army. The army is later rendered ineffective when Britonah discovers the 'off' switch.  

The inhabitants of Switzzzk watch everything with disdainful uninterest, but aren't too proud to launder Germaaine's stolen credits.

Merikaan eventually decides to help Britonah and together they liberate the galaxy. 
 
Merikaan then invents a space station with enough firepower to destroy an entire planet, and uses it on Japin 4 (twice).

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If you can "hyperspace" directly to where you want to go... would there even be 'borders' or 'fronts' in any traditional sense?

So, if the enemy manages to control all the planets around Coruscant, does it even matter, or can the Coruscantees still be defended from people Hyperspacing in, and still exert their influence by just Hyperspacing passed their nearby enemies.

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I guess that's why the EU writers (Zahn, specifically) came up with the Interdictor cruisers...

But yeah, I was wondering the same thing...  If there are no travel limitations, then is there a geography to the war?

 

Moth3r- You had me there for a second!  Switzzzk watch indeed!

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Excuse me while I carry on this conversation with myself.

RE: Unlimited Space Travel.

I guess it does take "time" and "some kind of measureable energy or fuel" to get around in the Star Wars universe, but a lot of other Sci-Fi does seem to take advantage of "worm holes" or "jump points" etc... to make space warfare a little more like earth based warfare.  So, is Star Wars nearsighted for not thinking this through, or is it bold to peel back the layer and skirt the direct translation of 1-1 earth warfare to space warfare?

2. The Star Wars galaxy seems to be full of "land" but not all of it is good.  I know they were going for a Wild West motif there, and maybe there's something to be said for that.  I was about to say "Whatever the star 'Wars' were about, it wasn't about 'land!'  But maybe the nice hospitable planets are full of people and it's just the wastes of Hoth and Tatooine and Dagobah that have so much available real estate.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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So, how about this for an "exciting" or "cinematic" battle?  Because most other "realistic" battles I can think of would also be "boring" since they would lack the "simultanaeity" of all layers of battle.

THE BATTLE FOR THE LOOSELY DEFENDED PLANET X

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Red holds planet X.  They have held it for some time, so there are minimal defenses.

Blue shows up in force and the Space Forces (SF) take out Red's minimal space based defenses.  Blue starts to land Ground Forces (GF).

Red dispatches GF to combat Blue, while calling in reinforcement from nearby allies.

Ground battle wages.

Green responds to Red's call for help and Green's SF engage Blue in orbit around Planet X.

Green tries to land GF to help Red against blue on the ground.  Must be able to push back Blue's SF long enough to punch a hole through to the ground.

Red, Blue and Green call for reinforcements as necessary and as available.

Other forces show up or don't.  

Blue's ground objective is accomplished, or is defeated until all GF are dead or are able to call retreat.

Battle is over.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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TheBoost said:

If you can "hyperspace" directly to where you want to go... would there even be 'borders' or 'fronts' in any traditional sense?

So, if the enemy manages to control all the planets around Coruscant, does it even matter, or can the Coruscantees still be defended from people Hyperspacing in, and still exert their influence by just Hyperspacing passed their nearby enemies.

 So, I've been thinking about this again...

Hyperspace is the same vector as A->B, but just compressed length, right?  So, you have to be sure that your vector doesn't intersect any planets, stars, asteroids, gravity wells, etc, correct?  That's what "calculating the jump to lightspeed" is, right?  It's determining an exact vector that is free from any obstacles?  What about space dust?  What about other ships?  If you accelerated dust particles to ~lightspeed, they would be just as deadly as bullets, right?  So, does hyperspace travel include some sort of low level protection against minor stuff, but still have to avoid the planetary level stuff?

Wouldn't commerce, transportation and therefore armies (navies, etc.) probably all end up using the same vectors?  Sort of like our "roads" today.  A car is capable of driving on non roads, but it is less efficient and the possibility of an obstacle (say, a "tree") on the non-road is very high compared to the possibility on the road itself.  That's why we all drive on roads when we don't have to, right?

So, despite the fact that ships can go anywhere->anywhere, it makes more sense that they would probably, all things being equal, prefer to be in known "hyperspace lanes"?  And assuming that you can't turn (change vector) without dropping out of hyperspace, a trip from A to B is probably more like a trip from A to B to C to D, right?

There's one more feature of a road that makes me decide to drive on them almost exclusively- they generally build gas stations at regular intervals next to them.  We don't know what kind of fuel Star Wars ships generally consume (if any) but we do see them pumping something fuellike into the X-Wings just prior to the DS's attack on Yavin.  So surely, planets along popular hyperspace lanes, especially at the corners, would have deluxe refueling and refitting services available in orbit, right?  Perhaps there's a decent vector A->C, but that bypasses the refueling station at B, so it really only makes sense to go A->B->C->D, right?

(I think it's interesting that Zahn suggests in HTTE that the Star Destroyer Chimera is faster in hyperspace than Luke's X-Wing (Thrawn observes Luke's hyperspace vector and then presumes he knows where he's going and estimates they can get there 3 days earlier)  I almost would have assumed that it's the same hyperspace, why pay to get there faster?)

(It's also interesting in Zahn's books (and possibly other EU) that they specify the length of hyperspace travel often in "days".  Again, I almost had the impression from the movies that anywhere->anywhere was nearly instantaneous.  It's just getting stuck in an asteroid field without a working motivator that caused you to limp to Bespin over the course of a week.)

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Me again. ('ello Self)

In RLM's review of TPM, he goes on and on about "space supplies."  Which got me thinking how realistic interstellar trade would really be.  I guess all space travel based science fiction has to deal with this to a degree... but in the real world, it costs A FREAKIN' TON to launch a rather small amount of matter into orbit.  So... take a $1 cheeseburger from your favourite haunt and mail it to someone in a 3rd world country for the low cost of $100,000.   Kinda makes the proposition of finding a good hamburger locally "fiscally responsible."

What I mean is: How much better does Harvest Planet X or Mining Planet Y have to be at providing these materials before the cost of exporting them is actually worth it?  Can you mail a bushel of grain across the galaxy and have it arrive cheaper than the local grown stuff, no matter how hard it is to grow there?

I ask, because it would seem that one motivator behind an intergalactic war would be to control all of the resource producing planets (environments) which are needed to sustain life/growth/military across all of your other planets.  But does that even make sense?

The only way it does make sense is if you assume that transport costs are practically nil.  Of course, that goes back into this conversation I was having with myself earlier (in this very thread!) is that transportation or "space geography" based warfare sort of needs to have "travel limitations" to make any sense.

Does that make sense?

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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No.

Actually, it probably does, but I didn't really read too much of it.  I was really just curious if this thread is supposed to be like my Necropost thread - am I not supposed to interrupt your conversation with yourself?

Let me know, and I'll go back in time and stob myself.

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PROBATION!

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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I can't speak to some of the other films, but in Star Wars, there was just one layer;

;-)

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"Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”

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Yeah, it seems that Star Wars and the OT doesn't really show us "War between two roughly equal forces".  It's more "hit and fade" guerilla tactics by the rebels.  The Empire acts more like an over agressive Space Police Force looking for lawbreakers/protecting against terrorists.

The rebels only survive because the Empire never knows who/where they are.

In that way, it is similar to the current War on Terror.  If the Americans, with their superior forces and technology, knew who and where all of the top terrorists were... the War would be over tonight.  Hiding your top men is always a priority in war... but in WWII for example, the Axis were reasonably sure where the American and British leaders of state were at all times, and until the end of the war, we had a pretty good idea where Hitler was.  At the very least, WE KNEW WHERE GERMANY, ITALY and JAPAN WERE. 

We met openly on the battlefield...  That kind of thing.  But that campaign, despite the presence and dominance of air power, was conducted on a 2D plane- You could form a blockade on the ground or the water- in cities, roads or whathaveyou, and be reasonably sure that you would intercept your enemy there if they wanted to pass.  A few soldiers may sneak past the blockade, but certainly not the entire army...  The army was loud, slow and large, so it was easy to spot.

In space, the army is roughly the same size but the warground is infinitely larger.  And since the travel is essentially fast, practically invisible (hyperspace) and not limited to any 2D planes... it seems you couldn't set up any kind of blockade that would be effective at all.  That means you couldn't stop the enemy forces at a place of your choosing... that means that they would probably drag right up to your HQ and try to take you out.  No "front" that has to be pushed forwards or backwards until you reach the ultimate goal... just jump to lightspeed and arrive at your ultimate goal.

So, the guerilla tactics in the OT seem to make sense- the rebels are hiding- therefore the Empire can't wipe them out...  The Empire is numerous- therefore the smaller rebel force can't take them out directly.  So they identify key targets (DS, DSII, whatever) come from hiding long enough to destroy it and cause financial setbacks, human loss, and morale loss.

I'm obviously still just having this conversation with my self... so I guess I will stop there.  :)

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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http://science.howstuffworks.com/space-war.htm

This article is entitled "How Space Wars Will Work" and I thought I'd hit the jackpot!  But a better title would be "How The World's Superpowers Do and Will Use Space in Current and Coming Wars."  But I still had to post it since a guy I used to work with is cited in the article.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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xhonzi said:

Yeah, it seems that Star Wars and the OT doesn't really show us "War between two roughly equal forces".  It's more "hit and fade" guerilla tactics by the rebels.  The Empire acts more like an over agressive Space Police Force looking for lawbreakers/protecting against terrorists.

The rebels only survive because the Empire never knows who/where they are.

In that way, it is similar to the current War on Terror.  If the Americans, with their superior forces and technology, knew who and where all of the top terrorists were... the War would be over tonight.  Hiding your top men is always a priority in war... but in WWII for example, the Axis were reasonably sure where the American and British leaders of state were at all times, and until the end of the war, we had a pretty good idea where Hitler was.  At the very least, WE KNEW WHERE GERMANY, ITALY and JAPAN WERE. 

We met openly on the battlefield...  That kind of thing.  But that campaign, despite the presence and dominance of air power, was conducted on a 2D plane- You could form a blockade on the ground or the water- in cities, roads or whathaveyou, and be reasonably sure that you would intercept your enemy there if they wanted to pass.  A few soldiers may sneak past the blockade, but certainly not the entire army...  The army was loud, slow and large, so it was easy to spot.

In space, the army is roughly the same size but the warground is infinitely larger.  And since the travel is essentially fast, practically invisible (hyperspace) and not limited to any 2D planes... it seems you couldn't set up any kind of blockade that would be effective at all.  That means you couldn't stop the enemy forces at a place of your choosing... that means that they would probably drag right up to your HQ and try to take you out.  No "front" that has to be pushed forwards or backwards until you reach the ultimate goal... just jump to lightspeed and arrive at your ultimate goal.

So, the guerilla tactics in the OT seem to make sense- the rebels are hiding- therefore the Empire can't wipe them out...  The Empire is numerous- therefore the smaller rebel force can't take them out directly.  So they identify key targets (DS, DSII, whatever) come from hiding long enough to destroy it and cause financial setbacks, human loss, and morale loss.

I'm obviously still just having this conversation with my self... so I guess I will stop there.  :)

George Lucas and Nathan Hale (or whoever...) should have read this before writing the Phantom Menace!!

Edit: Infact why didnt you email them this sometime around 1995 - it could all be your fault the prequels arent very good!

You can never go home again, but i guess you can shop there.

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Although it would obviously be ineffective in the way it's presented in the Phantom Menace (a single ring of warships around the center of the planet), a blockade could still have great strategic value in occupying a planet. It would require thousands if not millions of ships, however, stationed in a grid not far from each other all around the planet so that they can intercept any craft attempting to exit. 

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HigHurtenflurst said regarding the battle of Hoth in http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/STAR-WARS-EP-V-REVISITED-EDITION-ADYWAN-RELEASE-DATE-2011/post/423322/#TopicPost423322

There's not a lot about the whole battle makes any sense.  For starters, where's the air cover?  You gotta have air superiority before you send in the ground pounders....  A few Tie fighters would have knocked all those pesky speeders down in no time, and some Tie bombers could have knocked out all the turrets/ground defenses, etc...  A big atmospheric battle between Ties and Xwings as a prelude to an aerial bombing attack/ground assault would have made a lot more sense in military terms...

And the rebel pilots are morons.  Absolute and utter morons!  You're attacking a slow moving target with an extremely small arc of fire, limited to just a few degrees left and right of center, (slightly better vertically) so what do you do?  Attack from the sides/behind/above/below where they ludicrously  have absolutely no defense of any kind?  Of course not!  Go charging straight in head on every time and get the crap kicked out of you!  Yay rebels!

And the space blockade.  Did it actually stop anybody from escaping?  Again, where were the fighters?  Tractor beams?  Anything? What a bunch of clowns.

The battle of Hoth is my very favorite moment of the whole series, it still gives me a tingle, but when I stop to actually think about it, the whole thing falls apart.  The secret is:  never think.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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 (Edited)

xhonzi said:

Moth3r- You had me there for a second!  Switzzzk watch indeed!

     I don't know where else to put this. I'll try to make it fit here.

    In '83, I tried to come up with a conception of the SWU that fit exactly with what I saw on the screen and GL's approach. I'm more a history buff than a cinephile,so history was a dominant influence.

    From the start, I imagined the SWU as technologically stagnant. No real advances whatsoever for thousands of years.

   The galaxy was an island. It would have been too difficult, for some reason, to navigate beyond. Maybe because their galaxy was charted and explored. They could not calculate in good time safely jumping into another galaxy.

      Computer is on the fritz again. Bye :)

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 (Edited)

   Anyway,

    My flights of fancy began in '77, when watching the film and reading the extra info in the novelization. I wanted to see more and understand how things came to be. I couldn't wait for the sequel. When it came, much was uncovered. I wanted to discover even more.

    I wanted the PT for the exposition. "Exposition dump", while maintaining pace, tension and coherence for the newbies, is incredibly difficult. 'Matrix' is an outstanding example of dumping philosophical, technological, and spiritual concepts "on-the-fly." The genius of the OT was the way it could maintain itself with minimal expo. It created a sense of magic and unknown and made us wish for more.

     The SWU needed to be in a state of techno-stasis. It was very important to my speculation and the eventual conclusion (I am going to tie all this together *shock*.)

     In my conception, hyperdrive was the central factor. The clones were a consequence. From the foundation of The Republic, the "PAX JEDIACA" was based upon the Jedi Order's guarantee that the systems could not develope hyperdrive capable warships ('Dune' and pre-'14.) The systems could only maintain local (non-hyperspace capable), defensive warships and ion cannon "Coastal Artillery" (these defenses were why the empire could not establish complete control.)

    I thought the X-wings could be very special as the only fighters with hyper-drive (before ROTJ.) They were commissioned for exclusive use by the Jedi. When things started falling apart, the aero-space corporation started making them in the thousands for systems that wanted a more robust defense. 

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   I thought the tie between the trilogies was great. I was confessing failure in the guessing game.

   Before ROTS, the game seemed like "pre-plagairism" that, in the very unlikely event that there was some shred of truth in something, could be a spoiler for some people.

    In my SWU conception, the DS was not an innovation, it was the first time that a galactic power could pull together the resources (through confiscatory taxation and pillaging) to harness such planet destroying energy. (sorta PT)

    I tried to work 3PO into the history (not so much R2. He seemed new, but I suppose "new" could be very relative in a "timeless" U.) I thought there might be some kind of security program that automatically flushed his memory of compromising info about his former masters the moment he is salvaged or purchased by others (why he knew about the princess, then didn't) After ROTJ, I thought he might have been owned by the mother's family for several generations (Lady Jessica/Princess Leia.)

     I thought the new R2 might have limited hover capability. Avoids draining power cells.

     I thought non-hyperspace capable fighters would be launched from pan-galactic warship "carriers".

     That's all I can remember about PT tech.  :)