This way it would be Palpatine pushing Anakin toward the Dark Side rather than Padmé seeing nothing wrong with slaughtering children. Palpatine being the only one who knows what Anakin did to the Tuskens would explain why Padmé didn’t see his turn coming.
I agree. Padmé being explicitly told that he slaughtered a village and being understanding, of all things, is the most unbelievable thing about their relationship to me. I feel Anakin should have glossed over it, or pretended he didn’t remember. That way, all Padmé knows is that he felt immense anger, but doesn’t know if he acted on it - so she could still say the line and have it fit naturally. However, thematically it would probably have been better if there had been a way for Palpatine to say that to him somehow.
He says things along the same line in ROTS anyway (“It is only natural… he cut off your arm, you wanted revenge”).
“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”
I don’t think so. Attack of the Clones really illustrates how different characters are unable to live up to their own standards and often compromise themselves and their principles.
Examples:
Obi-Wan scolds Anakin for losing his lightsaber during the air speeder chase. He loses his lightsaber during his fight with Jango on Kamino.
Mace tells Palpatine they’re the keepers of the peace and not soliders. He cuts Jango’s head off.
Padme doing the same illustrates further how she fell in love with the wrong person but she doesn’t know it until later. However she still holds onto the belief there’s good in him when he completely succumbs and this trait carries over to Luke.
“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas
I don’t think so. Attack of the Clones really illustrates how different characters are unable to live up to their own standards and often compromise themselves and their principles.
Examples:
Obi-Wan scolds Anakin for losing his lightsaber during the air speeder chase. He loses his lightsaber during his fight with Jango on Kamino.
Mace tells Palpatine they’re the keepers of the peace and not soliders. He cuts Jango’s head off.
Padme doing the same illustrates further how she fell in love with the wrong person but she doesn’t know it until later. However she still holds onto the belief there’s good in him when he completely succumbs and this trait carries over to Luke.
I do like that idea, especially since it implies Padme unknowingly was an enabler for Anakin’s lesser traits.
I don’t think so. Attack of the Clones really illustrates how different characters are unable to live up to their own standards and often compromise themselves and their principles.
Examples:
Obi-Wan scolds Anakin for losing his lightsaber during the air speeder chase. He loses his lightsaber during his fight with Jango on Kamino.
Mace tells Palpatine they’re the keepers of the peace and not soliders. He cuts Jango’s head off.
Padme doing the same illustrates further how she fell in love with the wrong person but she doesn’t know it until later. However she still holds onto the belief there’s good in him when he completely succumbs and this trait carries over to Luke.
I do like that idea, especially since it implies Padme unknowingly was an enabler for Anakin’s lesser traits.
Exactly this. Nobody knows what to do with Anakin except for Shmi and Qui-Gon. They’re the only ones that understood him for who he is and what he was capable of being. Padme in a way comes closest to everyone else within their circle as they both allow each other to be themselves instead of strictly being defined by their professions of Jedi and Senator as the others see them as. It’s only natural they’d fall in love.
“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas
This way it would be Palpatine pushing Anakin toward the Dark Side rather than Padmé seeing nothing wrong with slaughtering children. Palpatine being the only one who knows what Anakin did to the Tuskens would explain why Padmé didn’t see his turn coming.
Yes, Palpatine would have been a better choice for the line. But given the way the so called romance or love story was written in AOTC it is doubtful even this line could have saved or made it less “icky”, toxic, controlling or abusive.
Maybe Anakin instead could have said:
“Please don’t look at me like that.
Palaptine : Why not?
Anakin : Because it makes me feel uncomfortable”
and gone on from there. It would have made more sense!
Anakin about Padme in her sleeping quarters: “She covered the cameras. I don’t think she liked me watching her.” She is obviously uncomfortable with Anakin watching her, again.
Anakin later blames Padme for “the kiss that you should never have given me”, despite it Anakin being the person to instigate that kiss, before Padme quickly put a stop to his advances.
Anakin to Padme: “I… I killed them. I killed them all. They’re dead… every single one of them. And not just the men. But the women… and the children, too. They’re like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals! I HATE THEM!”
There is obviously a lot more to this, from Anakin disrespecting Padme’s authority as a person, and openly undermining her authority in front of others. She repeatedly tells him to stop making advances and he refuses to accept these requests. Even Anakin outright telling Padme he doesn’t like what she does, or stands for, and that a dictatorship is the correct way to run a galaxy.
But on Geonosis this all changes, Padme professes her love for Anakin, which is pretty much out of nowhere (other than George’s fetish leather scene in front the fire), and they marry in secret soon afterwards. Huh. WTF?!
Yet all of the above is portrayed as some sort of this is all a part of a “will-they-won’t-they” fall in love scenario, but in reality it comes across as toxic and controlling. The toxic and controlling aspects would have been better served on screen demonstrating Palpatine and Anakin’s relationship, and Palpatine’s growing influence and control over Anakin - not in Anakin and Padme’s poorly written and unbelievable “love story”.
The Secret History of Star Wars | Star Wars Visual Comparisons | George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time-Travelling Revisionist
Another reason to appreciate the line is seeing it for the way it fits a motif of the stories.
Take these scenes between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon and later another with Obi-Wan and Anakin.
There’s a great deal of subtle implication and foreshadowing with each along with the poetic links between them. There’s even visual poetry as Anakin’s background is washed out and darker to signify further final steps to bring about the Empire while Obi-Wan’s is still colourful indicating his alliance with the Republic and democracy.
Anakin also often has the same ambitions as Dooku throughout Attack of the Clones. He promises he will become more powerful than any Jedi. Dooku claims he is.
Another thing to note about the Anakin and Padme exchange is exactly what jedi_bendu mentioned. It’s a different character later with Palpatine relying to Anakin a different motivation and way of seeing things to exploit him. Like when Obi-Wan tells him he’s wise and proud of him. Palpatine tells him he’s wise and strokes his ego with how he knows he’s always wanted a life of significance.
It’s a musical idea in a way. It’s a reoccurring motif within Star Wars that doesn’t get referenced nearly enough.
Personally my favourite is when Anakin tells Palpatine that Obi-Wan’s fate will be the same as ours. It has double meaning as they escape the Invisible Hand and all three end up dying on a Death Star.
“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas
I guess the line about anger does have some value, but I still think it’s weird that Padme is so understanding after Anakin just went on a borderline psychopathic rant about slaughtering an entire village. It feels really out-of-character, especially given how shocked Padme is that Anakin did the exact same thing to the Jedi temple in ROTS.
I feel like the scene would be a lot better if Anakin never admitted that he killed all the villagers. He’d just rant about how he wasn’t able to save his mother, and about how the Jedi are holding him back from gaining the power to save those he loves. Then Padme would deliver the line about anger being human. From Padme’s perspective, she would just be consoling Anakin during a time of great emotional turmoil for him, but since Anakin knows he killed all the villagers, he would interpret Padme’s statements as “It’s okay to kill people.” That way, a line that was intended to console Anakin would just end up feeding his darkest impulses even more.
My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX
I guess the line about anger does have some value, but I still think it’s weird that Padme is so understanding after Anakin just went on a borderline psychopathic rant about slaughtering an entire village. It feels really out-of-character, especially given how shocked Padme is that Anakin did the exact same thing to the Jedi temple in ROTS.
Keep in mind Padme also only knows the Tusken Raiders as “walk like men, but they’re vicious, mindless monsters” according to Cliegg Lars. She has no reason to doubt him and that the Lars aren’t good people. Anakin himself tells her that before he sets off if it wasn’t enough to be shown. She also knew Shmi personally and was just as shocked later that he fell to the Dark Side as she was about the younglings. She knows for a fact the younglings are innocents. The context around both circumstances is different enough to blur the lines. It doesn’t justify her excusing Anakin for what he did to the Tuskens but it does paint a picture as to how she could make the leap with the greater thematic issue throughout the film and what’s happening within that part of galactic history.
It also in a way carries over to the next film as Anakin promises both Padme and Shmi at her gravestone that he won’t fail again at saving those he loves. This is his entire downfall in Revenge of the Sith. I truly don’t think issues and actions are as rushed as some believe them to be with his fall. It’s been happening from the very beginning in The Phantom Menace. It’s just very subtly done and not rushing to get there as there’s no story to Anakin being in the suit except to create a mindless monster. He’s not one. He might be created as a Frankenstein monster when he became Darth Vader in the suit but Anakin himself isn’t one. Anakin was a good person that fell to temptation through a pact with the devil and his inability to let go.
“Heroes come in all sizes, and you don’t have to be a giant hero. You can be a very small hero. It’s just as important to understand that accepting self-responsibility for the things you do, having good manners, caring about other people - these are heroic acts. Everybody has the choice of being a hero or not being a hero every day of their lives.” - George Lucas
This way it would be Palpatine pushing Anakin toward the Dark Side rather than Padmé seeing nothing wrong with slaughtering children. Palpatine being the only one who knows what Anakin did to the Tuskens would explain why Padmé didn’t see his turn coming.
Yes, Palpatine would have been a better choice for the line. But given the way the so called romance or love story was written in AOTC it is doubtful even this line could have saved or made it less “icky”, toxic, controlling or abusive.
Maybe Anakin instead could have said:
“Please don’t look at me like that.
Palaptine : Why not?
Anakin : Because it makes me feel uncomfortable”and gone on from there. It would have made more sense!
Anakin about Padme in her sleeping quarters: “She covered the cameras. I don’t think she liked me watching her.” She is obviously uncomfortable with Anakin watching her, again.
Anakin later blames Padme for “the kiss that you should never have given me”, despite it Anakin being the person to instigate that kiss, before Padme quickly put a stop to his advances.
Anakin to Padme: “I… I killed them. I killed them all. They’re dead… every single one of them. And not just the men. But the women… and the children, too. They’re like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals! I HATE THEM!”
There is obviously a lot more to this, from Anakin disrespecting Padme’s authority as a person, and openly undermining her authority in front of others. She repeatedly tells him to stop making advances and he refuses to accept these requests. Even Anakin outright telling Padme he doesn’t like what she does, or stands for, and that a dictatorship is the correct way to run a galaxy.
But on Geonosis this all changes, Padme professes her love for Anakin, which is pretty much out of nowhere (other than George’s fetish leather scene in front the fire), and they marry in secret soon afterwards. Huh. WTF?!
Yet all of the above is portrayed as some sort of this is all a part of a “will-they-won’t-they” fall in love scenario, but in reality it comes across as toxic and controlling. The toxic and controlling aspects would have been better served on screen demonstrating Palpatine and Anakin’s relationship, and Palpatine’s growing influence and control over Anakin - not in Anakin and Padme’s poorly written and unbelievable “love story”.
I do agree with this mainly, there is some more to to the relationship but yes it poorly written and does appear toxic and controlling. George admits in general “I’m not a good writer”, “It’s very, very hard for me. I don’t feel I have a natural talent for it… When I sit down I bleed on the page, and it’s just awful" and it does appear the film would have benefited from additional writers who are more skilled and experienced at writing such relationships.
Keep in mind Padme also only knows the Tusken Raiders as “walk like men, but they’re vicious, mindless monsters” according to Cliegg Lars.
No, Padme also knows what Anakin has just told her, and Anakin is himself deeply upset, ashamed and angry in this conversation over his actions.
“I… I killed them. I killed them all. They’re dead… every single one of them. And not just the men. But the women… and the children, too. They’re like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals! I HATE THEM!”
Padme now also knows Anakin can quickly hate, and can turn to uncontrolled violence when doing so, even against unarmed women and children. This is also something she obviously encounters herself in the next film.
Padme is already aware of Anakin’s strange behavior around her, and to her. But still decides to pursue a relationship with him and then marry him (I do not agree with all these below, but it does highlight a number of instances of this strange behavior):
^ from “(Part 5 of 9) Star Wars Ep II: Attack of the Clones Review”: 9 minute video from RedLetterMedia (sexist Plinkett character)
“Is Anakin’s Relationship Abusive? | Star Wars”: 16 minute video from Cuenin’s Cove (based on content from AOTC, ROTS & TCW)
According to the above video, referencing the National Domestic Violence Hotline spectrum: yes, the relationship is abusive.
I guess the line about anger does have some value, but I still think it’s weird that Padme is so understanding after Anakin just went on a borderline psychopathic rant about slaughtering an entire village. It feels really out-of-character, especially given how shocked Padme is that Anakin did the exact same thing to the Jedi temple in ROTS.
Yes, this does seem poor writing for the character, which is unfortunate given the strong start and writing she had in TPM (when compared to AOTC and then ROTS). I am surprised that as George has a history of making changes to his films, that he did not make tweaks to improve the writing and the story in the Prequels too. A subtle line of dialogue or dubbing change, or inserting a deleted or alternative scene, like the Fan Editors of Star Wars films often do.
The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.
I’m asking myself whether it is actually possible to achieve this in a fan edit.
We could use the scene of Anakin and Padmé arguing on her ship after they retransmitted Obi-Wan’s message as a starting point, paint her out of most of the shots and then add a little hologram of Palpatine to the console.
To finally sell it as a new scene we could replace the background outside the ship with a sunset.
In this video someone did this for the R2 receiving Obi-Wan’s message bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhCnW79f-z0&list=PLrrjPYdsCSWraGbJBLRd_YrWuHUyJOdAf
(around 5:15)
Maybe we could even delay the reveal that it is Palpatine that he is talking too, this way the audience might assume that it is Obi-Wan at first.
I only wonder what dialogue to chose exactly. Maybe like this:
-Opening shot of Amidala’s starship
-Whatever can be pieced from Anakin’s line. Here lies the real challenge because a line has to either fit the existing footage from the scene on the ship or we would have to rotoscope him out of the garage scene and fit on a background that matches the geometry of the ship.
-reveal Palpatine to be the person Anakin is talking to, he could say something like this:
“It is only natural, they took your mother and you wanted revenge”
Now that I think about it, I feel like I read about a similar idea in the Prequel Radical Redux thread.
Edit: If we go with the sunset idea, we could also use shots of R2 and 3PO arguing on the ship after they landed on Geonosis, color wise they would match a sunset.
“Vader! Hologram, now!”