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 (Edited)

If Lucas had not taken his side line in toys to the forefront of the saga with Jedi,

if he hadn't botched up the special editions and worsened them with the DVDs, if he had given us a perfect restored transfer of the OUT, if he had made the prequels as compelling story based films which fitted into the narrative of the originals seamlessly,

would we be here discussing the ethics of film preservation?

Would we be stretching out imagination trying to make the square pegs fit into these round holes he has made?

The chosen one might have had to have turned to the Dark Side so that we can redeem him.

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zombie84 said:

What the fuck happened to this guy? He sounds like was pretty cool.

Fantastic that you got hold of this, this could make my signature quite longer. ;) But I must repeat your words, WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED TO THIS GUY?! It's tragic and scary at the same time how a person can make such a turn around... only 7 years later...

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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doubleofive said:

The greatest speech against the Special Editions was written by George Lucas.

 Brilliant. I'm preparing an article that will examine the full document and I think I am going to title it this.

Fascinating, infuriating, sad and inspiring all at once this speech is.

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Reading parts of these documents makes you wonder if the SE were Lucas's way of testing the public to see if they believed as he did.  Going as far as you said that they were 'a threat'.

but here's a caveat:

philosophical tastes of the copyright holder.

Although he's the copyright holder he's also the creator and might not feel that these things apply to him.  The complaint at this time was Ted Turner buying movies then doing what he wanted with them.  (this issue resurfaced in 2004 when the Three Stooges were colorized, and that's what brought these GL testimony quotes back into print)

The other thing which was of interest, poking around, was there were several attempts to amend US copyright in this time period and some of the revisions centered around film.

1987.03.13 - FIlm Integrity Act (Colorization)

1987.05.12 - Legal Issues that Arise When Color is Added to Films Originally Produced, Sold, and Distributed in Black and White

1988.03.03 - Berne Convention (George's testimony)

1989.06.20 - Moral Rights in Our Copyright Laws

1990.01.09 - Moral Rights and the Motion Picture Industry

Wonder if GL saw this progression of legislation, and how they used his words in the following rounds which modified his mindset.  The 'National Heritage' line met with a roll of the eyes by some of the later testimonies.

zombie84 have you come across the 'National Heritage' quote which has been attributed to the George testimony?  this quote:

"I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them."

Or is this turning out to be a bastardization or misquote which has taken on a life of it's own?  From some of the articles of this time, GL and friends also visited the Copyright Office so maybe it's from one of those meetings.  Didn't find any documentation though from that.

 

Was odd to find these docs, then later in the day go see Tron with a digitally created actor in younger form.  (still in that uncanny valley for me, brought back Final Fantasy memories... It's Warm...)  Also found a document which could be one of the inspirations for Jar-Jar!  hey someone's gotta be into that kinda thing.

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Tobar said:

I wish we had an audio recording of this. It would make an excellent basis for a video coupled with footage of the SE.

 Or maybe it can be transcribed into a yellow title crawl?

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Then it would just be floating text with no impact. If you're going to make a video, especially a narrative one, you need visuals to emphasis the message you're trying to convey.

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none said:

Although he's the copyright holder he's also the creator and might not feel that these things apply to him. 

Which of course, is exactly what he says in South Park:

Kyle: But you fought against the colorizing of movies!

Lucas:That's DIFFERENT! These are MINE!

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C-SPAN is in the process of putting their video archives online. I found a link to one 1987 hearing about colorizing movies, but Lucas isn't listed as one of the participants.

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/Colo

Maybe the hearing Lucas was in will pop up eventually.

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Where were you in '77?

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Truthfully, I couldn't finish reading it.  I have zero tolerance for blatant lying, which Lucas has been caught at, and can be proven,  more times than can be counted.  Hearing him take such a strong stance against the very thing he continues to do  to the fans is fucking obscene.

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zombie84 said:

doubleofive said:

The greatest speech against the Special Editions was written by George Lucas.

 Brilliant. I'm preparing an article that will examine the full document and I think I am going to title it this.

Fascinating, infuriating, sad and inspiring all at once this speech is.

Wow, I agree ! Thank you for the quotes.

... the best explaination possible I would see about his behaviour may be that perhaps he's now trying to show us he was right ! ;)

 

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GL should have stayed on the walnut farm. He makes more money than he deserves.

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This was sought through entering the Berne convention for Moral Rights,

Capitalize "Convention".  maybe modify to 'Berne Convention on the issue of Moral Rights'.  The full title for Berne is "Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works."  people might think it's "Berne Convention for Moral Rights" from the way it's currently written.

Are the first two pictures just 'of that time' or are there specific people whom we're looking at?

In August of this year, I wrote a lengthy article on the dearth of American film preservation law--I should have just let George Lucas write it!

The opening clause might get confusing as years pass.  Drop it or get 2010 in there somehow. 

from the new musical sequence in Jedi, youthful Hayden Christensen replacing old Sebastian Shaw in the same film, Greedo shooting first out of political correctness, and the totally different colour scheme implemented in 2004.

replace 'and' w/ 'to' so it's from the new music to the totally different colour.

Someone else was in Washington too.

Maybe add a return before this line to separate it from the paragraph above, give it some stand out drama.

since director Richard Marquand died in 1987, and need to have Kershner and Kasdan be the decision-makers for Empire.

 

and that out of respect for the deceased Richard Marquand Jedi be left as it was.

Can we get some love for Brackett?

document bearing the title The Berne

either a colon or dash after title. or put it in italics or quotes. quotes will give everyone a clue when the title ends.

 

anyone else at the end say to themselves "and to all a goodnight"

Great recap, paints a nice picture.

but people who side with the idea that artists should have free reign might come down hard on this.

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I'm sure they will, (and that he rationalizes it that way these days) but that's a pretty shallow read on it, and a douchey-lawyer way for those people to cherry pick what he actually said. Especially since so much of it is about our heritage and a clear picture of our cultural history etc. etc. And basically none of it is about how writer/producers should be free to do the exact opposite.

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I  support your idea 100%  and will do anything and everything I can to assist in it.  Even if that means make a donation to get the site up and running.

 

I agree we should not just bitch like fan boys   and we should post nothing but FACTS   and no bias opinions.

 

Lets start by posting  actual interviews with lucas from the past    and then post  his recent ones  and prove him to be the lier he is and  make the world take notice this man is a lier  and does nothing but spin spin spin.

 

the people vs george lucas was a good  attemot to  take a jab at this man but its clear lucas used his influence to keep it from being widely  known.  other than hardcore internet fans  few people have heard of it.  I have not seen it at any blockbuster video.

 

savestarwars.com is a great idea for a website  and if constructed properly  and used to post  the truth I think it might get noticed.  there are many  people put there  once connected to starwars   whos words are respected...gary kurtz  and david prose among those names. they both have called lucas out  as a lier.

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You talk about presenting just facts but then you quickly delve into conjecture. The People vs. George Lucas was designed to be a neutral take on what the public thinks about George Lucas. It presents both sides of the coin. The reason the documentary hasn't been widely distributed is that it is an independent film with no big name backing and so the filmmakers are handling distribution themselves.

Furthermore, if you want to be taken seriously you need to spend more time focusing on your spelling and grammar. You might make good points but they're being undermined by your writing style. Lastly, you should take some time to think about what you're going to say before saying it. A lot of your posts just come off as angry rants and because of that can and will be quickly dismissed.

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Baronlando:

I'm sure they will, (and that he rationalizes it that way these days) but that's a pretty shallow read on it, and a douchey-lawyer way for those people to cherry pick what he actually said. Especially since so much of it is about our heritage and a clear picture of our cultural history etc. etc. And basically none of it is about how writer/producers should be free to do the exact opposite

Well, he sort of does, but I didn't include it. He has two main points:

-Films belong to society, and should be preserved as they are.

-Artists also should have the right to block the alteration of a film on the grounds of their moral rights. But, if they want to have it altered, that is a decision that only the "authors" of the film can consent to, which is the director and writer.

So, it may seem a bit conflicting on the surface. But he says that rights holder should continue to release and maintain the original versions even if altered versions exist, and expresses anger that this has not be happening very well. Which is the reconciliation of his two arguments.

It's also the exact situation we have today, except in the case of Star Wars. You have the Director's Cut/Special Edition/Extended Version, plus the original theatrical version, released in basically the same quality. Lucas had the right idea, even in 1988. He seems to have lost it.

Unfortunately, there is a caveat in that films are collaborations, and that includes the studio too, and not single-handed efforts that a director can control unilaterally. They tried to open it up to include the primary writer, but that seems like a futile and arbitrary designation for most cases. That's why the Berne Convention wasn't extended to films, and that's why Cultural Heritage protection law is the only effective way to preserve films. People can alter them as much as they like as derivative copies but the original get's priority treatment and preservation. Alas, as Lucas says, this is comparitively unimportant matters for Congress, and the only reason this motion was brought forth was because of the celebrity angle. Who knows when it will come up again, and if they will be wise enough to deal with it properly.

None:

Good suggestions. I have incorporated all of them, except the reference to August, which I don't think is very confusing or relevant to clarify. I also am keeping Brackett out of this because according to the Berne Convention she would not be considered a primary screenwriter even though she has credit, and with her being dead while the main writer is alive she would probably be ignored in the issue.

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Great article as usual, zombie.

The main problem is that even how bad the situation look to us hardcore fans of the original films, to the general public it is just available in Laserdisc quality, (not even that, for those in the know how) or in some cases, DVD quality... "no big deal, no suppression going on here." Had they not released the GOUT, our words would have more weight. 

Cameron's The Abyss for example, was never released on DVD in anamorphic, I know it's a bad comparison, because that DVD included both versions in the same quality, and a new HD version is on the way I think.

But bad and old video transfers is nothing that was a huge issue to the regular people in the standard definition era, but soon it will be a extremely unique situation if you take the status and popularity of these films into account, these films are among the biggest, most popular and most iconic films in history afterall, and when the general public with their new HD TV's want to experience the original films again (I hope they still want, even though the brand has been crapped upon in over a decade) they will recognise that their cheap pornos are in better video quality than the GOUT, and then our voices will be relevant again, just me trying to be realistic and optimistic.

 

Zombie, even though the main purpose of your site is the Star Wars trilogy, could perhaps a little article about his alterations and suppression made to THX 1138 and American Graffiti also fit on your site? it would be great.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Zombie, even though the main purpose of your site is the Star Wars trilogy, could perhaps a little article about his alterations and suppression made to THX 1138 and American Graffiti also fit on your site? it would be great.

Yeah, I had thought about doing that. It's a little outside the scope of the site (save STAR WARS), but one thing I should at least do is add links to existing pages that catalogue the differences. I'm pretty sure there are some out there that I've seen.

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Both great. I wonder if there is something similar to Graffiti and Raiders; I know its only a couple shots, but someone must have made a page about them.

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Don't forget that the true original theatrical cuts of THX and Graffiti have never been released on any home video format, ever.  Only Lucas' "original" cuts have been made available (the ones Lucas was allowed to release in theaters in 1977, after Star Wars became big).

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I think he honestly believes in preservation. The problem is that he found he could go back and "fix" things he never liked with new technologies and got way too carried away. Now the OOT looks too old and he thinks no one would bother with the rough version anymore.

I just can't believe he spoke out against every single thing he did to his own films.

Wasn't the the re-release cut of THX the original film? I could understand why the theatrical was never released (although I would want to see it like Touch of Evil).

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captainsolo said:

I just can't believe he spoke out against every single thing he did to his own films.

I don't mind what he's done to his films. I think the creator should be able to do anything they want with their product. It's the disregard of preserving the originals that bothers me and I feel that's where George becomes a hypocrite. A colorized version of Night Of The Living Dead doesn't bother me because the original black and white version has been preserved and made widely available in HD formats. Same should be done for every film.

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Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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Yeah. But you know I always hear people talk about "the films are his babies," but they really aren't. I guess Star Wars is, he wrote and directed it. But you know, he didn't direct Empire and Jedi, and that alone should make him ineligable to modify them unilaterally. And then Lawrence Kasdan was the main screenwriter. Lucas here envokes the Berne Convention, and he goes on in other parts of the statements to explain how only the primary director and writer can approve changes, and they have to agree on them; this is the mandate of the Berne Convention Lucas was so aggressively promoting and trying to get Congress to recognize. But Kershner and Kasdan weren't even involved in the SE, and Marquand was passed away, so he's altering another director's film after he has died. It's kind of disrespectful for him to talk about "his vision" of things, especially with Empire where even in 2010 Kershner said the film came out so good because Lucas backed off and let him make it exactly the way he wanted and only visited the set three times.

So, basically, while I agree he should have the right to play with Star Wars to his heart's desire as long as the original version is preserved, I don't think he has any business meddling with the other two films without the consent of at least the guys who actually directed them.