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STAR WARS - Special Widescreen Edition (Technidisc) (Released) — Page 6

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I don't think shifting the hue helps the overall color - some colors are helped, others are harmed.

Color correction can be better achieved with a program like AviSynth.

Actually, I did some fooling around with that Luke/Ben picture in AviSynth, it took several layers of ColorBalance and the newer version of Tweak for the 2.6 alpha - the version with the startHue and endHue variables. Then I did some extra tweaking in Picture Manager. Here's what I got out of it:

I was trying to match the warm, muted look of this picture Mike Verta took from that private IB Technicolor print screening he attended:

When I turned up the saturation on the Verta picture and on my final correction of the Technidisc, Luke's skin comes out looking a similar hue of orange on both. Luke does have a more orange complexion than Ben, and Ben's lips do look kind of purple. Not sure how much of this is due to the color shifting I had to do, but you can also make out similar color relationships in this Senator screenshot:

Unfortunately, once again my settings only worked for this one image.

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This one is straight from the capture after I've set the levels more accurately in AviSynth, I just tweaked the hue a bit to take down the red, not trying to match anything.

From there on you can get some pretty nice results, but the transfer needs some scene by scene correction, I don't have the time for it at the moment.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Yes I see now I pushed too far away from the subtle pinks of flesh tone (and into waxy yellow) both you guys managed to hold onto it by dialing down the red. Colour correction can't really be done incrementally with the VLC image adjust - I was aiming to tackle some of the scenes where the faces really burn like ben and luke @ the sandcrawler. A VLC adjust is really just to get a playing copy I can live with or inspire others through a beginners attempt (or annoy others through my attempt might be more accurate in some cases)

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TServo2049 said:

I was trying to match the warm, muted look of this picture Mike Verta took from that private IB Technicolor print screening he attended

Good job! On the other hand, I remember Mike saying those photos from the screening only had the correct hue. I don't think they have the correct saturation and luminance, so maybe they actually looked as saturated as the Senator screening. Though, the Senator pics are photos from a camera as well.

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Is this more on track (V3 = 0.98, 1.04, 353, 0.87, 0.82)

http://i44.tinypic.com/xu2j8.jpg

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You_Too said:

TServo2049 said:

I was trying to match the warm, muted look of this picture Mike Verta took from that private IB Technicolor print screening he attended

Good job! On the other hand, I remember Mike saying those photos from the screening only had the correct hue. I don't think they have the correct saturation and luminance, so maybe they actually looked as saturated as the Senator screening. Though, the Senator pics are photos from a camera as well.

I think it was the right hue but the 70s hot bulb put it in a golden light ->

http://i40.tinypic.com/axl10m.jpg

 

http://i44.tinypic.com/34y1uh4.jpg

 

http://i41.tinypic.com/2enojet.jpg

 

http://i42.tinypic.com/30l154m.jpg

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Davnes007 said:

It's amazing how many people you need to film someone laying on the ground.

Haha true! :)

By the way, I find it weird that Obi-Wan's robe looks grey in that production photo and brown in the movie.

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Ok I finally followed the advice of many users here and got myself this version.

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but after watching some of it and comparing with the GOUT, I suspect they might be sourced from the same master.

I remember reading somewhere that the GOUT was DVNR'd in realtime while they scanned the reels or something, but this makes me wonder.

I made some comparison pics that speak for themselves:

Here's a couple with the same dirt spots. Stormtrooper helmet side and Obi-Wan's mouth. (Though the one in the Obi-Wan frame seems partially cleaned by DVNR in the GOUT)

Here's a couple with the same glue marks and stuff:

In these two the colored "flashes" look the same, also look at the dirt at Chewie's left side in the second frame:

And here's another thing I found which had been reduced slightly by the DVNR:

 

Now, I found one thing that made me wonder though, and that's this frame:

 

Thoughts?

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Yes, it's known and have been pointed out before, but that last frame is a little odd, but I guess it just picked up some additional dirt/damage since the '92 telecine, the mark isn't seen on the '93 DC LD but that transfer had even worse DVNR artifacts than the '95 Faces so...

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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 (Edited)

Here's that frame in the '93 DC (Dr Gonzo DVD):

What's interesting, is that the cropping is quite similar here to the Technidisc. Don't know if Gonzo made additional cropping or not for the resize though.

You can see some examples of the infamous split-saber syndrome here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/DVNR-smearing-in-GOUT-not-in-the-master-Or-is-the-1995-release-a-different-master-altogether/post/514542/#TopicPost514542 

I'm not entirely sure about this but I think the Faces LD of Empire doesn't have the artifacting seen here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/463309/#TopicPost463309 

If that is the case it could be:

'95 Faces LD = GOUT Star Wars

'93 DC LD = GOUT Empire

Also, the dirt on Ben and the trooper isn't something unique to this master, that's the kind of dirt that was printed in and probably seen on release prints. The speeder pass by shot had plenty of it, and so had the lightsaber scenes in the Falcon to name a few. The yellow and blue stripes is splice tape.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Looking at the comparison shots between the GOUT and Technidisc, the GOUT looks almost like its been bleached. Is this a combination of fade and DVNR or are there other factors involved?

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myscamore said:

I'm not entirely sure about this but I think the Faces LD of Empire doesn't have the artifacting seen here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/463309/#TopicPost463309

I can confirm the saber artifacts are also in the NTSC Faces LD.  I was running a test combining their luma channels with the chroma from GOUT.  With exception to the scanlines on the Emperor, everything in Faces looked just about the same at first glance.

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Are you sure? In the thread here Laserman says the Faces LDs don't suffer from the "split saber" problems.

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 (Edited)

I've been slowly making new backups of my LDs and just finished ESB Faces a few days ago.  Sorry for the ugliness.  These are taken from a raw capture.

ESB Faces LD, US Edition, NTSC:

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frank678 said:

Looking at the comparison shots between the GOUT and Technidisc, the GOUT looks almost like its been bleached. Is this a combination of fade and DVNR or are there other factors involved?

I was wondering if that source was turning yellow and then correcting that ended up making it kind of blah? (It's weird that they even bothered to do that quiet repressing, the box came out so close to it. )

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This is how a 0.16 sharpen in image adjust in vlc changes the technidisc. This probably

a crude technique to use but I think it shows off how much information the technidisc has in it a bit further.

 

 

http://i39.tinypic.com/99f4g0.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/24l21iu.jpg

 

 

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OmegaMattman, thanks for the screenshots, I guess Laserman only talked about the first film then.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

OmegaMattman, thanks for the screenshots, I guess Laserman only talked about the first film then.

No problem.  This has me curious to double check my Faces copy of Star Wars as well.  It's in my pile of stuff to backup, so hopefully I'll know for sure in the next week or two.

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If you can ignore artifacts of additional processing I think the Technidisc is awesome!

AWESOME! I TELLS YA! SO MUCH POTENTIAL/INFORMATION FOR COLOUR TWEAKING!

http://i44.tinypic.com/35cj501.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/23jgwpd.jpg

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Baronlando said:

frank678 said:

Looking at the comparison shots between the GOUT and Technidisc, the GOUT looks almost like its been bleached. Is this a combination of fade and DVNR or are there other factors involved?

I was wondering if that source was turning yellow and then correcting that ended up making it kind of blah?

My DVD transfers poor white balance also contributes to making it look more yellow than the actual LD really is. I actually think the elements used was turning pink/red at this point, the telecine operator may have tried to counter this with a bit of yellow and green.

Baronlando said:

It's weird that they even bothered to do that quiet repressing, the box came out so close to it.

Yeah, I don't recall exactly when it was done, maybe mallwalker could chime in, it may have been issued when the DC LD set was in production. It seems like this IP was first used when they produced the 1992 Special Letterbox Collector's Edition VHS.

Some interesting backstory about this source for those who haven't read it, THX Technical Supervisor Dave Schnuelle regarding the process of making the Definitive Collection Laserdiscs In the September 1993 issue of Widescreen Review:

"In this case, for all three films, we used interpositive elements that had been made directly from the camera negative. Other film transfers might be done from internegatives made from the interpositive, or from low-contrast prints, but we preferred the IP's for these transfers, because that's the earliest generation usable"

"One small difference from the original films is that in letterbox transfers we prefer to put any subtitles in the black border beneath the actual picture area. Thus we didn't use the same interpositive as the theatrical one, because that one contains subtitling already. In tracking down the elements, we found that the only ones in the vault were ones with subtitles- these clearly weren't the first generation off the camera neg because they had to have the subtitles burned in. So a massive search was undertaken and the first generation IP's were found in a special vault having only opticals in Los Angeles."

"A Mark IIIC with a 4:2:2 digital output telecine was used."

"We used a noise reduction and dirt concealment device made by Digital Vision, a company in Sweden. Their DVNR-1000 is a very powerful noise reducer for reducing film grain. Especially on the two earlier movies the film grain was very high."

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com