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STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - AVAILABLE NOW — Page 1224

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 (Edited)

Leia only kisses Luke to make Han jealous anyway...

Going back to the asteroid one last post on this.  Whoever on the team does those 2d but 3d scaled animations (layers moving at different speeds) first of all I want to say I think they are brilliant. I wish more films had them.

But I am kind of hoping that this can be fixed with one of those wonderful animations that you do as It seems all the elements are there for it.

But weather you use this technique to do a fix on it or not or choose to leave it as it is in the original film or tackle the issue another way. I wanted to share a couple of thoughts I had about approaching it in a 2D animation sense even if only for sharing thoughts and being inspired by some of these shots that I have seen you do previously.

Basically I was thinking about this 2d asteroid that has been removed from the film and ways of manipulating it whilst keeping the supposed big one also (less Jarring) but moving it about in the frame. But to cut a long story short yes twisting into frame was a thought I had on an anchored corner but also masking the edge inwards short of the actual edge and scrolling / rotating the surface through the mask to appear as though the surface is sliding against perspective but only slightly.

anyway I wanted to share that thought really about masking short of an edge and scrolling through a surface basically It's an interesting new spin (no pun intended.) And that does not mean either that I am asking for this to be done only a thought about 2d animation in general.

In terms of what the "Big" asteroid looks like or at least how I perceive it from what we see of it. To me it's like a remnant of an old planet surface that has been fractured / destroyed / obliterated and the top side that the falcon fly's over is like the once existing surface of a planet that has broken apart where it's underside and sides would be where it broke apart and it was once a part of something much larger.

About editing grammar and passages of time. Yes I agree that it's fair to show someone finishing their cup of tea or coffee and then then next shot they are leaving the door of their house. But that sort of editing grammar does not bode well in action sequences where we are meant to feel "in the moment" It all depends on what type of scene you are editing. In this scenario in a full on action sequence jump cuts are not the sort of thing you would introduce intentionally.

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KraytsRevenge said:

timdiggerm said:

Guys, it's only actually creepy if Luke & Leia know they're siblings... which they don't. It's maybe sorta creepy if the viewer knows? Maaaaybe? But I'm hoping in the Revisited saga, the viewer won't.

Any speeding it up would only introduce weird sped-up-ness.

 I dunno man that's how I get over the fact that it's in the original but if we're getting what may be the definitive version of the trilogy then we can go without any incesty-type-stuff. And I should have clarified that I don't mean just speeding up the film, but using that as well as other editing tricks to make the kiss shorter in general.

 There is a love triangle in the original trilogy which is only resolved by Obi-wan revealing that two of the people in the triangle are siblings. It's okay for that to be in a movie.

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timdiggerm said:

KraytsRevenge said:

timdiggerm said:

Guys, it's only actually creepy if Luke & Leia know they're siblings... which they don't. It's maybe sorta creepy if the viewer knows? Maaaaybe? But I'm hoping in the Revisited saga, the viewer won't.

Any speeding it up would only introduce weird sped-up-ness.

 I dunno man that's how I get over the fact that it's in the original but if we're getting what may be the definitive version of the trilogy then we can go without any incesty-type-stuff. And I should have clarified that I don't mean just speeding up the film, but using that as well as other editing tricks to make the kiss shorter in general.

 There is a love triangle in the original trilogy which is only resolved by Obi-wan revealing that two of the people in the triangle are siblings. It's okay for that to be in a movie.

 When does Leia show any kind of love toward Luke? I'm not tryin' to start an argument or whatever, anyway you interpret things is fine, but I've never bought that 'love triangle' thing. Leia digs Han from the moment they meet. Luke never had a chance.
Anyway, as other have pointed out, the kiss is no big deal. No need to change anything there. Leia doesn't know Luke is her brother and she only gives him a quick smooch to piss off Han.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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Leia was never interested in Luke, so there's no love triangle. Her first impression of him was lackluster: "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?" The kiss is long enough to do what she wants: get under Han's skin. Luke & Leia don't know they're siblings at that point, and it doesn't mean anything to her anyway. It works as is.

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It's not a great love triangle, but it's enough for Han to be confused at the end of ROTJ.

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Ronster said:

Going back to the asteroid one last post on this. 

Just rewatched the asteroid field scene. I understand the perspective argument, but we don't have enough information to dissect the physics. You don't know how fast the MF is flying, whether the big one is stationary or moving, the direction or speed at which the smaller ones are moving, etc. We see the MF approaching "one of the big ones" through the cockpit, and then we see just how massive it is in the next shot. That's all we really need to enjoy the scene.

Could it be tweaked? Possibly by having it remain roughly the same size the whole time we see it through the cockpit. I've never had any trouble accepting it as presented, though, especially since it is only on screen for a few seconds before the exterior shot.

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timdiggerm said:

It's not a great love triangle, but it's enough for Han to be confused at the end of ROTJ.

I think the whole Han jealousy thing was just a flimsy way for George to set up Han's surprise when he finds out what the audience already knows. With as much as he and Leia had shared up to that point, including the "I love you / I know" exchanges (and him copping a feel after she gets shot in the arm), he's either really paranoid or the victim of a mediocre script.

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Ronster said:

Leia only kisses Luke to make Han jealous anyway...

 I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks that :)

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BlueCardinal said:

Ronster said:

Going back to the asteroid one last post on this. 

Just rewatched the asteroid field scene. I understand the perspective argument, but we don't have enough information to dissect the physics. You don't know how fast the MF is flying, whether the big one is stationary or moving, the direction or speed at which the smaller ones are moving, etc. We see the MF approaching "one of the big ones" through the cockpit, and then we see just how massive it is in the next shot. That's all we really need to enjoy the scene.

Could it be tweaked? Possibly by having it remain roughly the same size the whole time we see it through the cockpit. I've never had any trouble accepting it as presented, though, especially since it is only on screen for a few seconds before the exterior shot.

 Yes, you have summed up things well with your post here about velocity and so fourth. And this is a slightly grey area. But you see the position of that big asteroid is straight out the window and they are flying at it like a brick wall like they are going to crash into it. And it looks nothing like the next shot.

Then in the next shot they have suddenly turned 90 degrees to fly across it?. And it looks nothing like what they were heading towards.... All of this happens too fast without any plausible passage of time. Basically it's 2  random shots put together and they are at odds with one another. They don't flow into one another.

I can still enjoy the sequence it's not killing things but I sure would like to see it feel more connected and flow better. The team have brought this sequence up quite a few notches and this is one of the problems still remain. Anyway I think it can work better somehow not sure how mind although I have not the skill to do it myself.

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brash_stryker said:

What the hell has happened to these boards?.............

 It's been "Special Edition'd." :-)

“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”

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One of my favorite franchises is Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy.  Excellent movies, all three of them, in my book.  I know people have issues with things here and there, but I love them.  And in spite of the complaints people level against these films, one thing I never hear is how disconnected clips in the scenes are.  You will watch a conversation take place, and it is extremely obvious that the editing is cutting out a few seconds here and there.  It's not hard to miss, everyone knows it is happening.  Yet, no one cares.  We don't have to have every second on screen to know what happened.  I never, ever have had a problem with the asteroid scene.  It was obvious that we had skipped ahead a few seconds, just like TDK trilogy and other movies do all the time.  Just like "Concentrate all fire on that super star destroyer" led to an immediate burst of A-wing firepower upon the Executor's shield generator, though there is no way the order could have been responded to so quickly and effectively in so short a time.  Just like Luke dropped to the top of the Millennium Falcon from the underside of Cloud City and was immediately carried into the ship, though Lando could not have possibly gotten ahold of him and brought him inside standing up in so short a time.  Just like Vader got all the way to the Executor from Cloud City with no shuttle needing to be seen in so short a time, impossibly fast if we were to assume time passed at a literal speed.  Just like Luke taking off from Hoth, with no wipe indicating the passage of time, was seen in his X-wing hovering feet from the surface while the canopy closed, and then was immediately beyond the atmosphere.  Why do we have to see every second?  So often movies skip unneeded moments, and we never complain.  Why, oh why would we have to spoon feed the audience that somehow the Falcon had managed to traverse the distance to the larger asteroid and meanwhile changed the angle of approach?

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A sequence that rarely gets its due is the Falcon's journey to Yavin. A voyage which would probably have taken hours (or even days) is economically folded down to a punchy sequence of shots, simply cut together - there isn't a wipe until after they've arrived.

I don't recall if this was altered at all in SW Revisited - perhaps the planet shots were tweaked, but I'd be surprised if the editing was considered in need of fixin'.

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.Mac. said:

Here's a comparison of the shot in question:

In the bottom "Revisited" half, notice how much light there still is along the walls. It has always been this way originally but, as evidenced by the previous shot, there should hardly be any light down here (only the minimal light the MF emits).

The top half of this split-screen was gradually shadowed darker so its interior matches the previous shot of the interior better. As it's traveling downward, wherever the MF is, that's where the light should be more prominent.

I'm hopeful Ady will take this into consideration, if he hasn't already.

 Maybe Adywan has already changed that. That seems like a pretty obvious continuity "error". It's not a big one but good that you pointed it out.  

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darth_ender said:

One of my favorite franchises is Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy.  Excellent movies, all three of them, in my book.  I know people have issues with things here and there, but I love them.  And in spite of the complaints people level against these films, one thing I never hear is how disconnected clips in the scenes are.  You will watch a conversation take place, and it is extremely obvious that the editing is cutting out a few seconds here and there.  It's not hard to miss, everyone knows it is happening.  Yet, no one cares.  We don't have to have every second on screen to know what happened.  I never, ever have had a problem with the asteroid scene.  It was obvious that we had skipped ahead a few seconds, just like TDK trilogy and other movies do all the time.  Just like "Concentrate all fire on that super star destroyer" led to an immediate burst of A-wing firepower upon the Executor's shield generator, though there is no way the order could have been responded to so quickly and effectively in so short a time.  Just like Luke dropped to the top of the Millennium Falcon from the underside of Cloud City and was immediately carried into the ship, though Lando could not have possibly gotten ahold of him and brought him inside standing up in so short a time.  Just like Vader got all the way to the Executor from Cloud City with no shuttle needing to be seen in so short a time, impossibly fast if we were to assume time passed at a literal speed.  Just like Luke taking off from Hoth, with no wipe indicating the passage of time, was seen in his X-wing hovering feet from the surface while the canopy closed, and then was immediately beyond the atmosphere.  Why do we have to see every second?  So often movies skip unneeded moments, and we never complain.  Why, oh why would we have to spoon feed the audience that somehow the Falcon had managed to traverse the distance to the larger asteroid and meanwhile changed the angle of approach?

 Thank you for this explanation. I honestly do not see why the asteroid scene is being made out to be this HUGE continuity error that's been plaguing the film for generations.

“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”

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G E Predator said:

Ronster said:

Leia only kisses Luke to make Han jealous anyway...

 I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks that :)

Definitely not the only one, I agree with this too.  

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TV's Frink said:

Someone actually read that novel?  ;-)

 First of a trilogy! Well, until it becomes a saga.

“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”

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@Darth Ender Ha Ha :)

You know me too well.... Funny how all those examples you have given are things I have taken quite a bit of time looking at and wanting to fix or pad out the timing flow better and capitalize on opportunities.

you have practically nailed my dream edit of empire (visually with a few omissions) although I won't talk about the changes exactly.

Perhaps I have a timing affliction :) Think depth, think scope and think a grander scale and being closer to time. It's where I am at that is what burns inside me for this film... I Can't help that.

I think people get pessimistic and put their preservationist hat on sometimes over making changes which could be for the better. But unless we try to explore some of the possibilities we can be none the wiser about how to make any improvement at all. But I will also except that sometimes an idea goes rotten before coming to fruition or simply does not work and is forced and damaging. Where as sometimes things fall in to place naturally.

I never said I hated it did I :)

Perhaps Arnold never needed to jump into the canal on his motorbike in terminator 2 we could have just cut to him riding his motorbike all of a sudden in the canal? we clearly saw him observe the canal that is enough we did not need to see him do that jump did we no... that achieved nothing at all.

Think Space car chase...It's about the build up to it whilst not changing the actual end result. Trying to improve upon the build up is no bad thing.

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The problem with the ESB kiss is the ROTJ line that Leia had "always known" Luke was her brother.

In ESB the kiss works because both siblings haven't a clue.

If Leia always knew she was his sister (even subconsciously) she would have been too awkward about giving him such head on snog.

The solution is to remove that part of the line in ROTJ where the problem first enters the story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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I never had a problem with that. I always took that line to mean that, while she WAS using Luke to try and make Han jealous, she was also testing to see if kissing Luke DID in fact feel as wrong as she thought it would. Not so much a kissing of literal siblings, but more of a "Yup, that FELT like kissing my brother". And it was only in hindsight that Leia said to herself "oh THAT'S why it felt like kissing my brother".

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If you had a 'brotherly' friendship with a woman would you give her a long lingering snog to get someone else jealous? It would be cruel if the other person wasn't in on the ruse and Luke clearly isn't.

The scene only works if A) we are ignorant of their sibling relationship and B) so are they.

The line in ROTJ is so awful it's almost like something Frink would add for a very amusing joke. Problems like that need to be fixed at the point they were made. Clearly the line in ROTJ is the problem not the scene in ESB.

You can just imagine Luke hearing Leia say that and then feeling kind of weird remembering that kiss.

The little kisses in ANH were one thing but that smooch...blarrrrgh!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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I've heard MANY stories of people being cruel to others just to test out their own feelings. This is something that happens all the time, and the narrative trope of people being used by others to make a love interest feel some jealousy is as old as storytelling itself.

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The love story that blossoms later on in the film really sells the Leia character as being strong and likeable and WAY overshadows the small moment of cruelty in which Leia uses Luke to get at Han. If you hate her for that then this would be the first instance I've ever heard of someone hating her character for something so insignificant.