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STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 534

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Timstuff said:

Personally, I prefer how "young Skywalker" sounds from a dialogue standpoint anyway.

I guess there are going to be strong feelings on both sides of this issue. My opinion is that it sounds belittling and dismissive.

The phrase “young Skywalker” works in ROTJ. When the Emperor says it in ROTJ, he doesn’t seem at all concerned about Luke. but rather expresses absolute confidence of prevailing over him, even going as far as to punctuate the point with a campy Evil Laugh.

The scene in TESB is supposed to present a different perspective on Luke. He is a “great disturbance,” he “could destroy us,” he is the “new enemy,” and even “the son of Skywalker” (mentioned not as a point of trivia, but to emphasize the potential power of this new enemy). To discount him as “young Skywalker” is completely at odds with what the Emperor is expressing with everything else he says in the scene. It also sounds strange when Vader says “He’s just a boy” right after the Emperor has expressed the identical sentiment, and then the Emperor rebuts the point.

I’m obviously not going to get any traction with the “son of Anakin” idea, but if there’s any possible way to restore the original 1980 dialog, with “Luke” instead of “young,” I think it would be a big improvement. I hope that somebody can figure something out, and that Ady will see fit to use it.

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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Exactly it would be like Mon Mothma refering to the Emperor as "Old Palpatine" or Leia refering to "wheezy Vader" while at the same time trying to convey how dangerous they were.

In ROTJ the Emperor is putting Luke down, making him sound weak and inexperienced by directly addressing him as "young" all the time (in the way old people in authority do).

In this conversation the Emperor is saying that Luke is a threat so it makes sense (if possible) to have him refer to Luke by his full name.

 

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All these points make perfect sense, but I just don't see how "Luke" can be added back in with McDiarmid's voice and not sound like shit.  Because - and no offense at all to Jaitea, you did a great job with what you had - adding "Luke" from the Musical Journey or whatever just sounds so out of place and awful.  Unless the "Luke" could be extended slightly and made to sound like the Emperor and not McDiarmid's normal voice, I don't see how it's even a possibility.

Young Skywalker is fine - it's a compromise, yes, but it's what we have to work with, and it's better than the Jedi-inconsistent Clive Revill/monkey-lady Emperor.

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Ok here's my two cents on the topic.

I think it actually makes sense for The Emperor to call him 'young Skywalker' because a part of him will be pissed off over Luke blowing up his Death Star (that took many years to plan and complete) - and therefore 'young Skywalker' screwed everything up for him.

I hope that made sense; because it makes sense to me :)

I have no problem with the original line btw, but I actually think the new line sounds more powerful. It may be almost impossible to create the original line seamlessly just with McDiarmid's voice, but we'll see what happens.

EDIT: Oh and Vader's line 'If he could be turned....' comes after the 'young Skywalker' line of Palpatine - which makes the new line make sense in a way because Vader is obviously concerned about the welfare of Luke rather than thinking of him as a potential enemy like the Emperor does.

Father, Husband, Nerd (of Batman and Star Wars mainly)

Tayyab

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Do you mean in a "and we would of got away with the Death Star if it wasn't for those darned pesky kids" sort of way?

That's fine if you are writing a Robot Chicken sketch but not really fitting the darkest and best written episode of the OT ,though I appreciate Ady is stuck with what is possible (still unwobbly, wobbly helmets do happen).

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Bingowings said:

Do you mean in a "and we would of got away with the Death Star if it wasn't for those darned pesky kids" sort of way?

That's fine if you are writing a Robot Chicken sketch but not really fitting the darkest and best written episode of the OT ,though I appreciate Ady is stuck with what is possible (still unwobbly, wobbly helmets do happen).

Haha, no. :)

I meant he's really not happy in the....er....'Shakespearean' way, which fits in with the mood and style of the film. 

Father, Husband, Nerd (of Batman and Star Wars mainly)

Tayyab

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"Mark but the badges of this dangerous youth,

His father was a Jedi of some strength renown and his mother a sainted Queen,

This farmer's dog from Tatooine, have robb'd me of my devil's star

And at length oft plotted with our foes to take my life and too my crown."

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Ugh. Any chance of getting McDiarmid to record the line? ;-)

Not willing to reconsider “the son of Anakin Skywalker”? How about “the Rebel Skywalker”? We’ve got to be able to come up with something more fitting than “young.”

Here’s an outside-of-the-box idea. They both know who they’re talking about, right?

VADER: What is thy bidding, my master?

EMPEROR: There is a great disturbance in the Force.

VADER: I have felt it.

EMPEROR: We have a new enemy.

VADER: Yes, my master.

EMPEROR: He could destroy us.

VADER: He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.

EMPEROR: The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi.

VADER: If he could be turned, he would become a powerful ally.

EMPEROR: Yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?

VADER: He will join us or die, my master.


I’ll keep trying to come up with other alternatives. What are acceptable audio sources for the Emperor’s voice? Musical Journey has been ruled out. How about ROTS and ROTJ?

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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Yeah, I think I like it. Ady objected to my initial “the son of Anakin Skywalker” suggestion as unnecessary repetition. If it’s not necessary to say “son” twice, it’s not really necessary to say “Skywalker” twice either, is it?

Yeah, I think I like it. Ady objected to my initial “the son of Anakin Skywalker” suggestion as unnecessary repetition. If it’s not necessary to say “son” twice, it’s not really necessary to say “Skywalker” twice either, is it?



Heh. Couldn’t resist. Can’t resist this either:

VADER: What is thy bidding, my master?

EMPEROR: There is a great disturbance in the Force.

VADER: I have felt it.

EMPEROR: We have a new enemy.

VADER: Yes, my master.

EMPEROR: He could destroy us.

VADER: He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.

EMPEROR: “Just a boy”? I’m talking about Jar-Jar Binks. Who did you think I was talking about?

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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cap said:

 

VADER: What is thy bidding, my master?

EMPEROR: There is a great disturbance in the Force.

VADER: I have felt it.

EMPEROR: We have a new enemy.

VADER: Yes, my master.

EMPEROR: He could destroy us.

VADER: He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.

EMPEROR: “Just a boy”? I’m talking about Jar-Jar Binks. Who did you think I was talking about?

 

lol! jar jar would give papa palpatine a heart attack. speaking of the shortest offensive of all time. :)

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cap said:


I guess there are going to be strong feelings on both sides of this issue. My opinion is that it sounds belittling and dismissive.

The phrase “young Skywalker” works in ROTJ. When the Emperor says it in ROTJ, he doesn’t seem at all concerned about Luke. but rather expresses absolute confidence of prevailing over him, even going as far as to punctuate the point with a campy Evil Laugh.

The scene in TESB is supposed to present a different perspective on Luke. He is a “great disturbance,” he “could destroy us,” he is the “new enemy,” and even “the son of Skywalker” (mentioned not as a point of trivia, but to emphasize the potential power of this new enemy). To discount him as “young Skywalker” is completely at odds with what the Emperor is expressing with everything else he says in the scene. It also sounds strange when Vader says “He’s just a boy” right after the Emperor has expressed the identical sentiment, and then the Emperor rebuts the point.

I’m obviously not going to get any traction with the “son of Anakin” idea, but if there’s any possible way to restore the original 1980 dialog, with “Luke” instead of “young,” I think it would be a big improvement. I hope that somebody can figure something out, and that Ady will see fit to use it.

^I think this argument is sound, and I vote for it.

 

ChainsawAsh said:

All these points make perfect sense, but I just don't see how "Luke" can be added back in with McDiarmid's voice and not sound like shit. <snip>

Someone with the correct audio editing software may be able to pull that off convincingly.

We are a way for the cosmos to know itself.

-Carl Sagan

 

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cap said:

Ugh. Any chance of getting McDiarmid to record the line? ;-)

Not willing to reconsider “the son of Anakin Skywalker”? How about “the Rebel Skywalker”? We’ve got to be able to come up with something more fitting than “young.”

Here’s an outside-of-the-box idea. They both know who they’re talking about, right?

VADER: What is thy bidding, my master?

EMPEROR: There is a great disturbance in the Force.

VADER: I have felt it.

EMPEROR: We have a new enemy.

VADER: Yes, my master.

EMPEROR: He could destroy us.

VADER: He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.

EMPEROR: The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi.

VADER: If he could be turned, he would become a powerful ally.

EMPEROR: Yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?

VADER: He will join us or die, my master.


I’ll keep trying to come up with other alternatives. What are acceptable audio sources for the Emperor’s voice? Musical Journey has been ruled out. How about ROTS and ROTJ?

 I was actually just thinking of that (omitting Luke's reference entirely, in the beginning part of the dialog), as I was reading through this page.  It'd work pretty damn well, IMHO...

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sbassen said:

cap said:

Ugh. Any chance of getting McDiarmid to record the line? ;-)

Not willing to reconsider “the son of Anakin Skywalker”? How about “the Rebel Skywalker”? We’ve got to be able to come up with something more fitting than “young.”

Here’s an outside-of-the-box idea. They both know who they’re talking about, right?

VADER: What is thy bidding, my master?

EMPEROR: There is a great disturbance in the Force.

VADER: I have felt it.

EMPEROR: We have a new enemy.

VADER: Yes, my master.

EMPEROR: He could destroy us.

VADER: He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.

EMPEROR: The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi.

VADER: If he could be turned, he would become a powerful ally.

EMPEROR: Yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?

VADER: He will join us or die, my master.


I’ll keep trying to come up with other alternatives. What are acceptable audio sources for the Emperor’s voice? Musical Journey has been ruled out. How about ROTS and ROTJ?

 I was actually just thinking of that (omitting Luke's reference entirely, in the beginning part of the dialog), as I was reading through this page.  It'd work pretty damn well, IMHO...

 why we all up in debate about this?

adywan has it basically written out as it is in the novel with a few minor changes. why wouldn't he use young skywalker? or even young rebel who destroyed the death star? at least with that he won't mention his name.

here, i'll give u the exact lines from the novel for u guys:

VADER: What is thy bidding, my master?

EMPEROR: There is a grave disturbance in the Force.

VADER: I have felt it.

EMPEROR: Our situation is most precarious. We have a new enemy who could bring about our destruction.

VADER: Our destruction? Who?

EMPEROR: The son of Skywalker. You must destroy him or he will be our undoing.

VADER: He's just a boy. Obi-Wan could not have taught him so much that-. Emperor cuts in

EMPEROR: The Force is strong in him. He must be destroyed.

VADER: If he could be turned, he would be a powerful ally.

EMPEROR: Yes...yes. He would be a great asset. Can it be done?

VADER: He will join us or die, my master.

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Um, rcb, no offense, but who gives a crap what’s in the novelization?

VADER: Our destruction? Who?
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that the guy who penned this line is not regarded by literary critics as one of the premier scribes of our time.

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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My .02... granted I'm hearing this on a netbook, but I think Jaitea's audio editing sounds terrific.  His insertion of "Luke" in the hologram scene sounded pretty seamless to me.  Maybe I should listen to it again on my desktop computer later just to verify.

Now, the issue of whether "Luke" or "young" works better from a dialogue point of view is another matter.  The idea of omitting Luke's name altogether as per cap's suggestion is interesting too, however I think it'd be a bit odd to be discussing this new enemy and not first confirming who exactly they're talking about.  If each knew the other was talking about Luke, why did the Emperor bother notifying Vader in the first place?

The more I think about this scene, the less sense it makes.  Why would the Emperor contact Vader half way through the film to tell him about Luke?  Wouldn't he know what Vader was up to, and whom he was after, all this time?

I wonder if the scene would be better off if it appeared earlier in the movie... thoughts?

“It’s a lot of fun… it’s a lot of fun to watch Star Wars.” – Bill Moyers

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cap said:

Um, rcb, no offense, but who gives a crap what’s in the novelization?

VADER: Our destruction? Who?
I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that the guy who penned this line is not regarded by literary critics as one of the premier scribes of our time.

 1987 is the copyright date for the novel. and i give a crap about the novel. granted the writing is a little weird, but its a classic.

anyways on ur point corellian, vader was planning to use luke to destroy the emperor so he played dumb during the conversation. whethe or not the emperor was aware i do not know

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I'm aware of the whole "Vader-and-Palpatine-are-playing-dumb-to-overthrow-the-other" explanation (I've discussed the conversation ad nauseum in the past, both on this and other forums).  It's just that it seems to create more problems/questions than it answers, and I wondered if just moving the scene to an earlier point in the film would alleviate some of issues.

In the end, I guess the safest thing to do would be to leave it as close to the original 1980 version as possible.  Besides, there's nothing to worry about... Ady's never let us down before.  I'm sure whatever he decides to do will be for the best.

Edit: And on the topic of Jaitea's audio work... just listened to it on my regular PC and I can now clearly hear the difference between "Luke" and the rest of the dialogue.  That said, it's still a good effort -- better than what I turned out when I tried the same thing awhile back, at any rate.

“It’s a lot of fun… it’s a lot of fun to watch Star Wars.” – Bill Moyers

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I think Cap is onto something here. I really like the idea of just leaving "Luke/young Skywalker" out of the dialog entirely. That's such a great idea, because it works so well. The Emperor doesn't even need to say his name - he tells Vader there is a new enemy, and Vader acknowledges that he is aware of him. It's like they are both on the same page already. And I bet the editing would be simple and flawless, too. I hope Ady considers this one, great idea Cap!

 

Ady, the work you're doing on the Wampa sounds incredible! I can't even fathom being able to put all of that together. Can't wait to see it in action.

 

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corellian77 said:

Besides, there's nothing to worry about... Ady's never let us down before.  I'm sure whatever he decides to do will be for the best.

I guess the rest of us should all just shut up and let Ady figure everything out by himself. It would certainly make the credits a lot shorter.

 

Time is running out for the Rebels. Antilles upcourt to Skywalker. He’s being paced by Darth Va— the bone-jarring pick by Solo! He came out of nowhere! Skywalker’s open from way outside, he launches at the buzzer... Good! It’s good! The Rebels win on a sensational buzzer beater by Luke Skywalker! Let’s take another look at that last shot. He just does get it off in time. Wow, what a shot. That’s why they call him Luke Legend.

 

That may be the most exciting battle I have ever been privileged to broadcast. Certainly the most dramatic finish. We’ll get you an update on the Artoo Detoo injury situation in just a moment. Right now let’s go courtside where SuperShadow is waiting with Chewbacca.

 

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lol. ur prolly right

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rcb:

lol. ur prolly right

Are you texting this in?

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I think the reasoning for the scene is: Vader and Palps both know that it was Skywalker who destroyed the Death Star and they both want rid of him. But there is a disturbance in the force, Palps has a premonition that things are kicking off somewhere in the galaxy, Luke has just met Yoda and that is like a pulse vibrating through the web of the Force, this is why Palps has this conversation with Vader, remember Vader tells this to Luke in ROTJ. Palps has forseen that Luke could destroy them.

 

My thoughts ??

 

J

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VADER: What is thy bidding, my master?

EMPEROR: There is a great disturbance in the Force.

VADER: I have felt it.

EMPEROR: We have a new enemy...the young rebel, Skywalker.

VADER: Yes, my master.

EMPEROR: He could destroy us.

VADER: He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.

EMPEROR: The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi.

VADER: If he could be turned, he would become a powerful ally.

EMPEROR: Yes...yes, he would be a great asset. Can it be done?

VADER: He will join us or die, my master.

 

 

Having giving a listen to all the various versions, I reckon there could be enough spiteful 'inflection' in the words "The young rebel" and "Skywalker" that is spoken in the SE dialogue that could be combined to make a good-sounding 'beat' that matches and flows well with the rest of the "We have a new enemy..." line.

Like others, I thought about removing either "...Luke Skywalker" or "...young Skywalker" from the sentance altogether too, as the 'beat' of the dialogue still sounds good without it, before Vader eventually replies "Yes, my master".  But I ended up thinking that without clarification of exactly who the Emperor means before Vader responds "He's just a boy...Obi-wan can no longer help him", that the Emperor might reply "Not that brat Luke you fool!, I'm on about ANOTHER enemy we've got to contend with!"

The problem is that because the movie has shown Vader actively searching for Luke by the time this late scene occurs, the Emperor's message gives the impression that he's only NOW discovered that this Luke Skywalker fellah could be a serious problem, and didn't know that Vader was already on his own agenda looking for him while chasing the 'Rebel Alliance' with the Emperor's fleet since the start of the movie....  So I don't think Vader would jump the gun and give away the fact that he knows exactly who the Emperor means by saying "He's just a boy...Obi-wan can no longer help him", WITHOUT the Emperor mentioning his name first.  Although it could be argued that this scene was just oddly structured late into the movie in the first place, rather than early on, I prefer the scenario where the whole scene can be seen has having various possible 'suspicion'/'deception' connotations between the two characters at this point, since the Emperor MAY have only decided to let Vader know at this particular point that he's aware about Luke's potential...but ACTUALLY knew much sooner, and decided not to emphasise it with Vader until this point...for devious reasons...

It's hard to say just HOW much they discussed about Luke before this point, and not that obvious that Vader should be seen to know exactly who the Emperor is on about unless he tells him.  If they are already on the same page about it all, then it seems that "We have a new enemy..." would be an strangely unneccessary thing for the Emperor to say to him this late into the game.  On the other hand, by bringing it up at this late stage and saying something like "...the young rebel, Skywalker" at this point in the proceedings could imply that the Emperor (and Vader?) has indeed ONLY JUST become aware that this particular rebel (who just happened to be the guy who managed to blow up their Death Star) was 'turning' (Force-wise) into a bigger danger than originally thought, and that they were on the same page from earlier in the movie as far as concentrating on their 'main' enemy - 'The Rebel Alliance' in general, with this Luke guy as just an extra 'bonus' amongst them, to begin with...

My head hurts!...

Anyway, I really dislike the new retconned SE dialogue changes, so even if my own slight alteration above doesn't come about, I'm more than happy to hear either "...Luke Skywalker" or "young Skywalker " instead, as long as the Emperor still says who he means to Vader first.