STAR WARS: EP V "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - 12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW — Page 483

and how would it ruin the suprise? we already saw the slave 1 going after them with the garbage

Bingowings said:

it would have to be one hell of a big cloud to hide something that big.

Gas giants are certainly not lacking in massive clouds.

hans olof said:

One question: In this 1980 cartoon (which is based on the original script), Luke screams "NEVER!!!" when he falls from Darth Vader when he tries to get him over to the dark side. Was the SE- scream from 1997 closer to the original script than we thought?

 

I doubt it. That scream in the 97 SE was more of a "omg, I'm falling! This was a stupid idea!" type of scream. Not only that, but it was Palpatine's scream from ROTJ. In my opinion it was the WORST SE moment in ESB and I'm glad the 2004 DVD removed it.

Besides, "NEVER!" worked better in ROTJ.

oh_riginal said:

hans olof said:

One question: In this 1980 cartoon (which is based on the original script), Luke screams "NEVER!!!" when he falls from Darth Vader when he tries to get him over to the dark side. Was the SE- scream from 1997 closer to the original script than we thought?

 

 

I doubt it. That scream in the 97 SE was more of a "omg, I'm falling! This was a stupid idea!" type of scream. Not only that, but it was Palpatine's scream from ROTJ. In my opinion it was the WORST SE moment in ESB and I'm glad the 2004 DVD removed it.

Besides, "NEVER!" worked better in ROTJ.

Amen to that - besides I'm so looking forward to hearing a pissed Vader again (BRING MY SHUTTLE!)

Why is the ESB duel so much better than the high speed epicness of ROTS. I don't know. Darth Vader was so scary the first time I saw that. That duel made you worry for poor Luke. The ROTS duel was just fast. I had the feeling that they just wanted to bump sabers. Darth was hiding in the shadows and fog in the bespin duel popping out of the darkness nearly testing Lukes power. It was like he was test driving Luke to see if he was worth all of the trouble. "If he survives I will take him to mean old Mr. Palpy. If he dies well I guess I will invite Leia into my meditation chamber and let her witness the fire power of my fully armed and operational battlestation IN MY PANTS HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! It is a good thing I only have one child."

I don't think any of the lightsaber duels had the eye candy that the bespin duel had. Well TPM duel was pretty badass. Actually it was the best part of the whole PT.

EyeShotFirst said:

Why is the ESB duel so much better than the high speed epicness of ROTS. I don't know. Darth Vader was so scary the first time I saw that. That duel made you worry for poor Luke. The ROTS duel was just fast. I had the feeling that they just wanted to bump sabers. Darth was hiding in the shadows and fog in the bespin duel popping out of the darkness nearly testing Lukes power. It was like he was test driving Luke to see if he was worth all of the trouble. "If he survives I will take him to mean old Mr. Palpy. If he dies well I guess I will invite Leia into my meditation chamber and let her witness the fire power of my fully armed and operational battlestation IN MY PANTS HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! It is a good thing I only have one child."

I don't think any of the lightsaber duels had the eye candy that the bespin duel had. Well TPM duel was pretty badass. Actually it was the best part of the whole PT.

 

 

The ESB duel and the PT duels are really two totally different types of creatures, and each have things about them that can be appreciated for what they are. As you pointed out, Vader is more or less playing with Luke, like a cat playing with a mouse prior to killing it. To me, it was never a coincidence that Luke got his hand cut off only after Vader got tapped on the shoulder!

The PT duels are fast paced, hectic, and probably more of what Lucas wishes the ROTJ duel had turned out to be. TPM is very acrobatic in its choreography, almost like a dance. The AOTC duel is probably the closest to the OT out of all the duels, since Dooku also liked to talk during his fights.

My problem with the duels in the PT has nothing to do with how they were choreographed or filmed, but with how they were edited...

The TPM duel is edited very well, because there is no "Michael Bay" style of editing going on. The length of a camera shot lasts a while without cutting to a new shot, with probably the best example being when Obi Wan first attacks Maul after Qui Gon was stabbed. The shot lasts quite a long time for a single shot, allowing the viewer to see every single move very fluidly.

However, the AOTC duel, as short as it is, feels overbearingly long when it gets to the silly looking close-ups of Anakin and Dooku twirling the lightsabers above their heads, not even looking like they are clashing sabers, even though we are supposed to think they are. Removing these shots makes the duel flow much better, even if the duel is shortened by a lot. I did a mock-up of this on youtube a while back, and I think the duel is better off.

The ROTS duel is the worst duel, editing-wise. I'm sure most of us have seen the behind-the-scenes footage of Hayden Christensen and Ewan McGregor practicing for the duel... I thought it looked amazing, since it was all in one shot. But the finished product has shots that last only a few seconds before cutting to another angle, which totally takes me out of the duel, cause I can barely make out what is going on shot-to-shot. If Lucas had made more simple decisions with camera angles, like he did in TPM, I have no doubt that the duel would have been improved 100% for it!

Coming back to ESB, the duel, while not flashy, has more character to make up for it, since it isn't intended to be a flashy duel in the first place. It's Vader showing off to Luke that he is superior from the beginning, with the one-handed moves, to the ability to talk calmly during the duel to piss Luke off, and later on with Vader throwing objects at Luke, which I'm sure was an entirely new concept for Luke, as the only duel he ever saw was the final moments of the Death Star duel in ANH.

I honestly don't think one style of duel is better than the other, as I like equally the subtleness of the ESB Vader vs. Luke as much as I like the fast-paced Maul vs Qui Gon/Obi Wan. It's really all in the editing.

The ANH:R version of Obi Wan/Vader dueling, at least to me, brought the duel a little closer to the PT. The shot of Vader blocking Obi Wan's saber in a close-up shot of Vader's head reminded me heavily of a similar shot in TPM when a close-up shot of Maul showed him blocking both Obi Wan's and Qui Gon's sabers. But the original version of the duel wasn't very good anyhow, since the choreography wasn't very well done, so the edit improves upon it a lot. The ESB duel doesn't need re-editing other than special effects (think: glowing burns added in to where the saber hits metal, etc.)

ROTJ has a decent duel, but I never really liked the duel after Luke screams "NEVER!" because it looks like Luke is barely even touching Vader's saber half the time, as he swings wildly like someone who has never been in a duel before, even though he fought Vader in the previous movie! The music in those moments is what truly saves the duel from looking terrible. Just watch it without music and it looks silly. The bad thing is, not much can be done to fix that.

Okay, early morning rambling over....

hans olof said:

One question: In this 1980 cartoon (which is based on the original script), Luke screams "NEVER!!!" when he falls from Darth Vader when he tries to get him over to the dark side. Was the SE- scream from 1997 closer to the original script than we thought?

 

 i made a mockup of that awhile ago it didnt get a very positive response (in other words it didnt work)
it is here

I hope ady showcases the space battle and the death star battle for our main attention. All I need to see is the rebels on Endor turning off the shield generator. Then back to the important dark duel. Coz the Endor Forrest battle is a mood killer.

mrbenja0618 said:

EyeShotFirst said:

I hope ady showcases the space battle and the death star battle for our main attention. All I need to see is the rebels on Endor turning off the shield generator. Then back to the important dark duel. Coz the Endor Forrest battle is a mood killer.

It really does kill the mood.... But the space battle in ROTJ is still IMHO the greatest of all the films. I'm still amazed at how well the ships maneuvered with them being models on wires. Great work.

Seriously I agree.  I mean, each ship is a separately shot element composited who knows how much time later.  It's impressive.  And to only have a couple mislayered/disappearing elements is extremely impressive.

oh_riginal said:

However, the AOTC duel, as short as it is, feels overbearingly long when it gets to the silly looking close-ups of Anakin and Dooku twirling the lightsabers above their heads, not even looking like they are clashing sabers, even though we are supposed to think they are.

Ha!  I'm so glad you brought that up.  I've never mentioned it to anyone, but I've always thought that part of the duel looked ridiculous.

fishmanlee said:

hans olof said:

One question: In this 1980 cartoon (which is based on the original script), Luke screams "NEVER!!!" when he falls from Darth Vader when he tries to get him over to the dark side. Was the SE- scream from 1997 closer to the original script than we thought?

 

 i made a mockup of that awhile ago it didnt get a very positive response (in other words it didnt work)
it is here

Watched and rated.  I thought it was well edited, but prefer there being no words between Vader and Luke, only eye contact, before Luke decides to let himself fall.  We don't need words to know that the subtext of that scene is "Not a chance in hell!"

Rhikter said:

oh_riginal said:

However, the AOTC duel, as short as it is, feels overbearingly long when it gets to the silly looking close-ups of Anakin and Dooku twirling the lightsabers above their heads, not even looking like they are clashing sabers, even though we are supposed to think they are.

Ha!  I'm so glad you brought that up.  I've never mentioned it to anyone, but I've always thought that part of the duel looked ridiculous.

I figure that's them trying to put a sort of martial arts feel into it. Watch any movie in the genre (which I'm a fan of) and there's a ton of that 'twirling things to look cool' action. :p The needlessly flip their swords around a lot in ROTS too, innit? It kinda makes sense for the more casual 'fiddling', kinda like a batter will flip/twirl his baseball bat around sort of mindlessly.

Yeah, I don't see the point in it either (other than it's flash, which is what modern films are based on), but it's history now. Heh.

doubleofive said:

mrbenja0618 said:

EyeShotFirst said:

I hope ady showcases the space battle and the death star battle for our main attention. All I need to see is the rebels on Endor turning off the shield generator. Then back to the important dark duel. Coz the Endor Forrest battle is a mood killer.

It really does kill the mood.... But the space battle in ROTJ is still IMHO the greatest of all the films. I'm still amazed at how well the ships maneuvered with them being models on wires. Great work.

Seriously I agree.  I mean, each ship is a separately shot element composited who knows how much time later.  It's impressive.  And to only have a couple mislayered/disappearing elements is extremely impressive.

Check out Babyhum's How To Film The Impossible disc.  There's a section in there where they're talking about "shot SB-19" from ROTJ - that's the big shot where the Falcon swoops towards the screen as swarms of TIEs come in from out of frame.  They open up about 6 boxes of little spools of film, each box containing about 30 to 40 spools.  Then they show this giant spreadsheet with X's all over it explaining that "anywhere you see an X is where one ship crosses in front of another."

It's amazing they managed to finish that shot at all.

Rhikter said:

oh_riginal said:

However, the AOTC duel, as short as it is, feels overbearingly long when it gets to the silly looking close-ups of Anakin and Dooku twirling the lightsabers above their heads, not even looking like they are clashing sabers, even though we are supposed to think they are.

Ha!  I'm so glad you brought that up.  I've never mentioned it to anyone, but I've always thought that part of the duel looked ridiculous.

Then you should like the mock-up I did. It was such an easy edit, it's ridiculous! On youtube, there's a big description in the details of the video that explain all the re-editing I did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlE9JBYaEFw

I may want to go back and re-do some of it, since I've been learning more and more about editing since I did that mock-up.

But, to go back on topic, one thing that still bothers me about ESB to this day is the shot of Luke while he is doing a handstand on Dagobah. In the wide shots, Luke's arms are straightened all the way, and the pose looks convincing, but when it cuts to a close-up of Luke, his elbows are bent, and he looks like an actor being held upside down, reaching his arms to the ground, rather than holding himself up. Though I don't think this is fixable....

buddy-x-wing said:

I didn't see this on the opening page , so I hope this hasn't been discussed before

I'm off work today, recovering from the Flu and decided to watch Empire for the first time in about a year or so, and re-noticed a minor little something thats bugged me for a while.  In the scene where  Yoda meets Luke,  Yoda grabs some sort of weird chocolate bar from Lukes rations,  takes a bite and chews,  yet the food remains completely intact,  it always reminded me of the scenes on Sesame street whenever the characters mimed eating something.  Is there any way to actually make it look he actually took a bite out of the bar?

It sounds like a minor thing, and I'm sure it's well within the realms of Ady's capabilities, but It would  add more believability to Yoda in that brief little scene.

I'm sure this was mentioned before, but I don't recall if Ady addressed it or not.

oh_riginal said:

Then you should like the mock-up I did. It was such an easy edit, it's ridiculous! On youtube, there's a big description in the details of the video that explain all the re-editing I did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlE9JBYaEFw

Watched and rated.

Very good.  I miss Dooku's dejected sigh after he pushes Anakin away.  I felt that little quirk added so much more depth to his character than any other typical, cliché, evil sith lord.  It feel like there was something left of the Jedi he once was, something that pains him whenever he does these terrible things, even if he may think he's doing the right thing.  It made me think that, deep down he's a tired old man who would prefer to retire and live in solitude.