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I'd love to see some sort of 4-up comparison videos of the GOUT, BLU-RAY, Revisited from 5 years ago, and 2013 Revisited in the special features perhaps.
I never really got it until you showed us bespin.
I figured it out:
doubleofive said:
Monroville said:BTW, what was the great flipper debate? And the snowflake on Chewie's foot?
Great Flipper Debate: Originally, Ady had replaced the hairy arm on the floor of the cantina with a model based on Ponda Baba's hand, since his was the arm that got cut off according to the EU and other sources. This cause a huge stir as people who had no problem with a hairy arm on the floor were suddenly up in arms (no pun intended) because it didn't even register to them that Ponda Baba had suction cup hands which then brought up the question of "how does he hold a gun?" So Ady made it so its actually the Doctor's arm that gets cut off (a cameo by his own hand!).
Snowflake on Chewie's Foot: A long running joke started by HotRod back during ANHR about Ady doing such good work, but ignoring the sand on Chewie's foot. When the conversation was moved to ESBR, he started complaining about the snowflake. I'm sure in a few years, it will be the twig...
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/3690
While most of the corrections are an improvement, this one looks substantially worse. Instead of "mystical swamp", it's "mud puddle with oppressive blue haze".
Does making the Hoth scenes less blue somehow make Dagobah less green and more blue?
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
NeverarGreat said:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/3690
While most of the corrections are an improvement, this one looks substantially worse. Instead of "mystical swamp", it's "mud puddle with oppressive blue haze".
Does making the Hoth scenes less blue somehow make Dagobah less green and more blue?
That's because the Original Release was blue in the first place. How people seem to envision the look of Dagobah intending it to be green was a misinterpretation in the first place. Even Ady has explained this.
“Did you know, the word ‘gullible’ is not in the dictionary?! Look it up.”
FVDnz said:
NeverarGreat said:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/3690
While most of the corrections are an improvement, this one looks substantially worse. Instead of "mystical swamp", it's "mud puddle with oppressive blue haze".
Does making the Hoth scenes less blue somehow make Dagobah less green and more blue?
That's because the Original Release was blue in the first place. How people seem to envision the look of Dagobah intending it to be green was a misinterpretation in the first place. Even Ady has explained this.
All I have to look at is the GOUT, but even there, the haze in the top of the frame is more red than blue.
I think that he did a good (if aggressive) job removing the unnatural green in the foreground, but it introduced an unnatural blue haze in the background. Just look at the top right of the image; in between the vines there is an ugly blue glow that doesn't exist in either the GOUT or the blu-ray. You can't tell me that those vines are supposed to look like that.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
NeverarGreat said:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/3690
While most of the corrections are an improvement, this one looks substantially worse. Instead of "mystical swamp", it's "mud puddle with oppressive blue haze".
Does making the Hoth scenes less blue somehow make Dagobah less green and more blue?
As i have said before, Dagobah was NEVER green. It only became green in 2004. In fact it changes colour throughout the movie on the DVD/Blu-rays and goes from blue to a oversaturated artificial green. It's a complete mess. Dagobah was in fact VERY blue when it was first in cinemas. NEVER look at the GOUT or the Blu-Rays to get any idea how these films ever looked. The GOUT is a faded mess that it's colour has red shifted and lost a lot of the blues completely.
Some shots in the blu-ray do still have a pallet that is close to the original and hasn't been messed about with as much apart from some oversaturation of greens/yellows in places. For example:
Now dagobah has that blue haze. If you look at the bottom picture, which is the exact position where the xwing lands, then you can see that the light emanating from between the trees is blue. Now lets take a look at that exact same shot in the GOUT:
A complete muddy mess. You see how far the GOUT print has red shifted by this picture.
Now lets take a look at the unfaded 16mm print Puggo used:
Although this print has been cropped heavily at the top where the lighter section between the trees is, you can still see the amount of blue in the picture and it does indeed have a blue haze.
now here is a comparison from later in that scene. top blu-ray, second Puggo, third Revisited
Now you can see just how heavily blue the original version was. Nowhere in the original was Dagobah green. Now i took a few liberties here to try and keep Yoda green, but i wanted to keep the original colouring of Dagobah the same as the original.
Now lets have a look at different shots of dagobah from the Blu-Ray. This will really show you just how messed up the colouring is:
It starts off not too bad with dagobah mainly being blue but the greens are slightly boosted too much:
Then the scene where Luke meets yoda is almost pretty uniform in the colouring until you get to the end.
and this is the shot directly after that one:
I guess they didn't bother to get the blue hue correct between shots, when it wasn't wrong before this new colour correction for the DVDs.
Now Yodas hut, we see the haze is still blue:
After that it all seems to go to pot. Its almost as if they split the workload into separate shots and different people were working on them without bothering to double check that everything is matching up, or even close.
The this shot is the next shot we see of this (one quick shot of yoda separates them and these two shots were also filmed as one single one so the colour should be exactly the same)
you can see the difference a lot clearer here:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/9289
And it just keeps going throughout the rest of the dagobah scenes
These next pairs all follow on from one another. As you can see the colour matching is none existent:
This green dagobah...
Is immediately followed by this blue dagobah..
Again they can't seem to decide what colour this planet should be:
This shot is once again only separated by a short shot of Yoda
Now we have a baby blue dagobah in this shot
The all of a sudden its gone and looks very muddy coloured and the greens are way too boosted, they almost glow
So you can see just how much of a mess the colouring is on dagobah alone. And those are only just a few examples.
So what i am trying to do with the colour is to bring it closer to the original theatrical version, but not as extreme as that was as Dagobah was VERY blue all over in places.
So to sum it up:
If you want your Dagobah to be a muddy brown colour then you won't like this version, so the GOUT is the one for you;
If you like your Dagobah being a multicoloured green and blue mess then with oversaturated foliage , again you won't like this version, so the blu-rays will be the ones for you
But if you want your Dagobah to be closer to the original theatrical version colours that would have been shown at the cinemas, then you should like ESB:R.
The same goes with the Blue of Hoth. Luke's rescue is when it is getting dark and was always blue. Bad video transfer/ faded print, made it look more white
Thanks for this information, Ady. I love reading this stuff!
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
one thing i forgot, the image from Revisited on the screencomparisons website was from the batch i did when Vegas was being a bit of an ass and conflicting with the huey pro software which caused the colouring to come out slightly wrong. So here is that same image as it appears in ESB:R
Oooooh that does look much better. There's blue, but it's not so bright. Thanks for the explanation!
Yes, thank you for your detailed explanation. The new version looks much more natural than the first comparison version (though I guess I've just watched the GOUT so many times that it would take some getting used to).
By the way, in defense of my ignorance, did you know that your thread is over 1000 pages long? ;)
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I'd love to see some sort of 4-up comparison videos of the GOUT, BLU-RAY, Revisited from 5 years ago, and 2013 Revisited in the special features perhaps.
I never really got it until you showed us bespin.
NeverarGreat said:
Yes, thank you for your detailed explanation. The new version looks much more natural than the first comparison version (though I guess I've just watched the GOUT so many times that it would take some getting used to).
By the way, in defense of my ignorance, did you know that your thread is over 1000 pages long? ;)
No defense necessary! It lead to a great post by adywan about the problems of the various releases and his repair-process, and who doesn't enjoy reading those? It's one of those times that reminds you just how much thought and talent is going into the Revisited project.
So, thanks for bringing it up, NeverarGreat! :)
Dagobah shouldn't be blue. It should be gray like the rest of the tie fighters.... for continuity's sake.
If once you start down the dark path... wear comfortable shoes.
Why can't Dagobah be orange?
Blood orange?
I recently dug out Ady's ESB Theatrical reconstruction which was based on his earlier colour alteration experiments.
The snow is much whiter there, it's interesting to look at for sure (it looks very fresh and startlingly modern) so if you really want white snow I suggest you check it out.
My question is: How do you/Puggo know that Puggo's 16mm is unfaded? Is it standard for film that when it fades, it red shifts (as opposed to blue shifts or else fades uniformly)?
All I'm saying is that I wonder how one declares any such print as unfaded. How can you be certain that Puggo's print is the actual original color?
Please, forgive my ignorance.
Personally, I'd rather defer to Adywan's grasp of common sense regarding proper coloring over relying on the color of potentially improperly maintained prints.
Suffice it to say, Adywan... to quote Star Trek IV: I "feel safer about your guesses than most other peoples' facts."
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
Bingowings said:
I recently dug out Ady's ESB Theatrical reconstruction which was based on his earlier colour alteration experiments.
The snow is much whiter there, it's interesting to look at for sure (it looks very fresh and startlingly modern) so if you really want white snow I suggest you check it out.
Revisited coloring looks the best to me for every single one of those images.
I don't know. I think I prefer the "AVCHD" shots for the probe and the tauntaun better.
In the case of the probe shot, it seems to me that the sky and the shadowed sides of the mountains in the background are perhaps too blue. At least the moutains' shadowed sides are grey in the "AVCHD" version while the sky is still realistically blue.
EDIT: Although, I say that and when I go look at Harmy's ESB:DE, the probe shot there is also similarly blue on the mountains' shadows and such, just like that "Revisited" shot.
And then...
and then I look at the very next shot in Harmy's ESB:DE, which has progressively dark shadows on the ground which are blue and look totally accurate to me regarding the color.
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
No, the tauntaun shot in that comparison needs to be blue tinted because as discussed earlier with the Luke close-up and his skin tone, it's nightfall when the scene takes place.
My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.
Harmy said: Revisited coloring looks the best to me for every single one of those images.
While my ultimate preference is for a white Hoth and I love the colors of the '97 SE reconstruction, all the Revisited shots look more advanced in terms of color correction, as if the process being used is more mature, so I agree with Harmy. Ady knows what he's doing, so I'll wait for the outcome and enjoy the edit the way he wants it to look.
Adywan, there is something that has been bothering me about the red lights on objects in what seems to me to be fan edits derived in part from the Blurays (and presumably the Blurays themselves, though I refuse to see them).
Look here, at this shot from Harmy's ESB:DE:
Those 3 red lights on the Falcon and the one on the right of the frame stick out like sore thumbs to me.
Also here:
And, in the case of your recently posted ESB:R shot, the red light on R2:
I thought that lights in the background should be more subdued, like this:
This is not a poke at Harmy. I would use the Blurays as an example, but I do not own them (nor do I intend to at this point). I am only concerned that this is a problem created by the Blurays that may be being overlooked by faneditors, including yourself. The red lights on objects in the background are so bright and obvious that they draw one's eye to them and away from the rest of the picture, and it bothers me greatly.
EDIT: It is the Blurays that are at fault. Look at these frames that Adywan posted earlier (when pointing out the bad color changes on the Blurays):
R2's light should not be that bright. It's so bright that it looks rotoscoped, and not at all like it's really supposed to have been there.
Please fix this, Adywan.
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
Dagobah should look like this, end of story:
Harmy said:
Revisited coloring looks the best to me for every single one of those images.
I agree but I like both.
They have different qualities to them.
Swarles said:
Dagobah should look like this, end of story:
That actually looks pretty freaking sweet.
Star Wars Renascent
Inspired by the Godfather Part II and a revamp of Star Wars: Reborn
I think Hoth should look like that...
...
Scratch that.