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“Are you an angel?”
This guy
Rogue One * Spoilers * Thread — Page 80
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I have really enjoyed the last two movies but they’ve also made me hate coming here, so…draw?
This.
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Two questions:
The lava planet where Vader’s castle resides… did it say Mustafar at any point?
Any idea who Vader’s hooded receptionist was? Someone from the EU?
1.) It didn’t say so in the movie, but I believe it’s confirmed in one of the reference books that came out with the movie. The visual dictionary and/or The Art of Rogue One, I think.
2.) I think he’s supposed to be one of the Emperor’s buddies with the goofy hats from ROTJ.
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I saw the film again tonight and it was better this time. Not looking for flaws and Tarkin and not focusing on who might die, the film was even better.
K2SO might be one of my favorite Star Wars characters now.
Originally, I thought more of JEJ’s lines sounded old and tired but in reality the only one that falls really flat on second viewing is “prepare a boarding party”. It is an easy fix by slowing it down a tick and removing higher end sound but I wonder why they left it like that.
I’m also thinking that Vader originally filled Tarkin’s role in large part in the first cut. The “immense power” line by Krennic that is now gone sounds like an argument they had about the power of the battle station. When Disney gave them more money to add Tarkin, I wonder if the Vader on Mustafar scene was added to give Vader screen time he had just lost.
Was Vader’s disappointment in the destruction of Jedha because of Krennic’s failures twinged with Vader’s attachment to the Force still? Was his frustration in part because this old shrine was destroyed? It kinda felt that way.
Did anyone else feel they were trying to contrast the radiation sunset on Scarif with the Binary Twin sunset? The rising musical cues seemed similar.
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Two questions:
The lava planet where Vader’s castle resides… did it say Mustafar at any point?
Any idea who Vader’s hooded receptionist was? Someone from the EU?
1.) It didn’t say so in the movie, but I believe it’s confirmed in one of the reference books that came out with the movie. The visual dictionary and/or The Art of Rogue One, I think.
2.) I think he’s supposed to be one of the Emperor’s buddies with the goofy hats from ROTJ.
Well, it’s almost certainly the planet where Vader and Kenobi dueled. In current SW canon, that’s Mustafar. In other SW universes, however…
“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”
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These non Star Wars fans are the worst…
EDIT:
And you’re goddamn right I went there.
Do you really want to go somewhere else? We could also discuss how some people have incredibly poor taste in films, don’t understand anything about storytelling or filmmaking, and base their ratings of Star Wars movies on nothing more than how much **** can be crammed onto the screen that they’re familiar with from other films or novels for God knows what reason.
You don’t even understand the opening crawl of a film you claim to love. Fuck out of my face with that shit.
You’re asking for a ban man. What I do understand are people who are so vain, so into themselves, that they enjoy watching movies where their entire gratification comes from subconsciously going “ah I knew that was going to happen” and “I remember that in some other film I liked years ago” and “that was in _____ EU book I read!” and the like.
There was a great quote in one of the reviews I read that said we, as a society, used to go to movies to wonder about the future (and the OT certainly fits that bill). Now we seem to be in love with reliving the past.
I can’t help disagreeing strongly. There are tons of great movies and stories where you know what is going to happen. Surprise is not an artistic value per se.
In fact, I would argue that there was a time when we went to the movies and theatres not giving a shit about knowing the ending, and still enjoyed it. And now all we got is just plain “oh, plot twist!”
Rogue One is a tragedy, because you know the unavoidable fate of the characters, yet you know they can do nothing about it.
Seen it three times by now, and I just keep liking it more and more. The Rebel Alliance feels like an actual military organisation. And we get to see that both Rebels and Empire have their internal political struggles, be it Tarkin/Krennic or Saw/Mon Mothma. It doesn’t feel monolithic anymore.
It’s a film that has the maturity the OT had, where characters understand each others with just eye contact and they don’t need to say everything, tho in the end yes, what ends up being key is the story and not the characters. I can’t see how that’s not the case in most of movies anyway.
And I don’t like the fact that this movie is getting so much trashing on the web, mainly because I really liked it and hope all the spinoffs take this approach and level, and not to have “character driven” spinoffs such as “origins of han solo”, “origin of boba fett”, “Vader”. And since I do not want Luke Skywalker or whoever they need to be re-cast, I won’t even dare to say a thing about CGI. Yes it was recognizable, but I’m enthusiastic on this tech, and hope they continue to pull it off.
Honestly cinema today, and actors are generally so crappy I’d rather have a CGI Alec Guinness or Peter Cushing all day.
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There was a great quote in one of the reviews I read that said we, as a society, used to go to movies to wonder about the future (and the OT certainly fits that bill). Now we seem to be in love with reliving the past.
Back in the 70’s the movies were great, now they’re complete uninspired crap. I love the fact that Rogue One has some really great nostalgia to it while at the same time being different.
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These non Star Wars fans are the worst…
EDIT:
And you’re goddamn right I went there.
Do you really want to go somewhere else? We could also discuss how some people have incredibly poor taste in films, don’t understand anything about storytelling or filmmaking, and base their ratings of Star Wars movies on nothing more than how much **** can be crammed onto the screen that they’re familiar with from other films or novels for God knows what reason.
You don’t even understand the opening crawl of a film you claim to love. Fuck out of my face with that shit.
You’re asking for a ban man. What I do understand are people who are so vain, so into themselves, that they enjoy watching movies where their entire gratification comes from subconsciously going “ah I knew that was going to happen” and “I remember that in some other film I liked years ago” and “that was in _____ EU book I read!” and the like.
There was a great quote in one of the reviews I read that said we, as a society, used to go to movies to wonder about the future (and the OT certainly fits that bill). Now we seem to be in love with reliving the past.
I can’t help disagreeing strongly. There are tons of great movies and stories where you know what it is going to happen. Surprise is not an artistic value per se.
In fact, I would argue that there was a time when we went to the movies and theatres not giving a shit about knowing the ending, and still enjoyed it. And now all we got is just plain “oh, plot twist!”
Rogue One is a tragedy, because you know the unavoidable fate of the characters, yet you know they can do nothing about it.
Seen it three times by now, and I just keep liking it more and more. The Rebel Alliance feels like an actual military organisation. And we get to see that both Rebels and Empire have their internal political struggles, be it Tarkin/Krennic or Saw/Mon Mothma. It doesn’t feel monolithic anymore.
It’s a film that has the maturity the OT had, where characters understand each others with just eye contact and they don’t need to say everything, tho in the end yes, what ends up being key is the story and not the characters. I can’t see how that’s not the case in most of movies anyway.
And I don’t like the fact that this movie is getting so much trashing on the web, mainly because I really liked it and hope all the spinoffs take this approach and level, and not to have “character driven” spinoffs such as “origins of han solo”, “origin of boba fett”, “Vader”. And since I do not want Luke Skywalker or whoever they need to be re-cast, I won’t even dare to say a thing about CGI. Yes it was recognizable, but I’m enthusiastic on this tech, and hope they continue to pull it off.
Honestly cinema today, and actors are generally so crappy I’d rather have a CGI Alec Guinness or Peter Cushing all day.
Hell I couldn’t agree with you more. 😄
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These non Star Wars fans are the worst…
EDIT:
And you’re goddamn right I went there.
Do you really want to go somewhere else? We could also discuss how some people have incredibly poor taste in films, don’t understand anything about storytelling or filmmaking, and base their ratings of Star Wars movies on nothing more than how much **** can be crammed onto the screen that they’re familiar with from other films or novels for God knows what reason.
You don’t even understand the opening crawl of a film you claim to love. Fuck out of my face with that shit.
You’re asking for a ban man. What I do understand are people who are so vain, so into themselves, that they enjoy watching movies where their entire gratification comes from subconsciously going “ah I knew that was going to happen” and “I remember that in some other film I liked years ago” and “that was in _____ EU book I read!” and the like.
There was a great quote in one of the reviews I read that said we, as a society, used to go to movies to wonder about the future (and the OT certainly fits that bill). Now we seem to be in love with reliving the past.
I can’t help disagreeing strongly. There are tons of great movies and stories where you know what it is going to happen. Surprise is not an artistic value per se.
In fact, I would argue that there was a time when we went to the movies and theatres not giving a shit about knowing the ending, and still enjoyed it. And now all we got is just plain “oh, plot twist!”
Rogue One is a tragedy, because you know the unavoidable fate of the characters, yet you know they can do nothing about it.
Seen it three times by now, and I just keep liking it more and more. The Rebel Alliance feels like an actual military organisation. And we get to see that both Rebels and Empire have their internal political struggles, be it Tarkin/Krennic or Saw/Mon Mothma. It doesn’t feel monolithic anymore.
It’s a film that has the maturity the OT had, where characters understand each others with just eye contact and they don’t need to say everything, tho in the end yes, what ends up being key is the story and not the characters. I can’t see how that’s not the case in most of movies anyway.
And I don’t like the fact that this movie is getting so much trashing on the web, mainly because I really liked it and hope all the spinoffs take this approach and level, and not to have “character driven” spinoffs such as “origins of han solo”, “origin of boba fett”, “Vader”. And since I do not want Luke Skywalker or whoever they need to be re-cast, I won’t even dare to say a thing about CGI. Yes it was recognizable, but I’m enthusiastic on this tech, and hope they continue to pull it off.
Honestly cinema today, and actors are generally so crappy I’d rather have a CGI Alec Guinness or Peter Cushing all day.
Hell I couldn’t agree with you more. 😄
Yep. Well-written post, Mithrandir.
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
(It hasn’t happened yet)
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I just noticed something after drooling over the trailers again.
K2’s line “Captain says you’re a friend… I won’t kill you” didn’t make the cut. Also the rising TIE fighter is missing when Jyn is going for the antenna switch (something I now remember being very excited about).
Well, that’s a bummer… kinda like that Kylo Ren TFA trailer moment where he ignites his saber like a BAMF.
JEDIT: “I rebel” is pretty funny because I’ve already seen the T-shirts.
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Rogue One is a tragedy, because you know the unavoidable fate of the characters, yet you know they can do nothing about it.
I don’t know if tragedy is quite right. This isn’t just an unfortunate fate that has struck these characters, these are sacrifices they’re making proactively.
Seen it three times by now, and I just keep liking it more and more. The Rebel Alliance feels like an actual military organisation. And we get to see that both Rebels and Empire have their internal political struggles, be it Tarkin/Krennic or Saw/Mon Mothma. It doesn’t feel monolithic anymore.
Well, the Empire had its own internal struggles dating back to the Death Star briefing room scene, which in some ways accomplishes as much in the one scene as all the Empire scenes in RO do. The internal Rebellion conflict is a nice addition, but just like with Krennic it doesn’t go anywhere.
It’s a film that has the maturity the OT had, where characters understand each others with just eye contact and they don’t need to say everything, tho in the end yes, what ends up being key is the story and not the characters. I can’t see how that’s not the case in most of movies anyway.
People keep saying this stuff about story being more important than characters, which is sort of missing the point. Story is, of course, ultimately the most important thing. But story and plot are two different things. An extremely simplified equation would be story = plot + characters. A story is the sum of these things and if the characters don’t resolve in a satisfying way than neither does the story, even if the plot does. This is what people are getting at. Now obviously if it’s not necessarily a character film that’s not the end of the world but then the story has to be resolved in other meaningful ways (thematically, for example). A story is a sum of its parts and whether it works for people depends on how well those parts come together. For some people the movie didn’t totally work so they’re blaming it on the characters when that’s actually only a piece of it.
And I don’t like the fact that this movie is getting so much trashing on the web,
Welcome to the web.
mainly because I really liked it and hope all the spinoffs take this approach and level, and not to have “character driven” spinoffs such as “origins of han solo”, “origin of boba fett”, “Vader”.
Personally as long as they steer clear of overly contrived origins (this is when Han installed chess on the Falcon! and this is how he got the red lines on his pants!) I don’t think it’s a bad idea to see how someone like Han Solo became who he is, provided it’s handled well. Boba Fett meanwhile seems like kind of the perfect spin-off character, considering his popularity, coolness (well, in ESB at least) and the fact that we’ve barely seen him do a damn thing on the big screen. A Vader film would be unwise, if for no other reason than we’ve already seen so much of him.
Honestly cinema today, and actors are generally so crappy I’d rather have a CGI Alec Guinness or Peter Cushing all day.
Jokes aside, the actual work of those performances would actually fall on actors today so you’d just be getting the same “crap” but just with a different face.
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The Tarkin and Leia scenes are often described as off putting and jarring. But the thing is those scenes will only get better over time as technology improves and future ‘remastered editions’ will actually work to improve and enhance the film.
This will be an unexpected irony in a fandom that has voiced displeasure over 'tinkering.
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Rogue One is a tragedy…
… the ongoing Tragedy of Darth Vader. He watches the Tantive IV fly away and says:
“Next time i try Force Speed. That’s a good trick.”
Nah, just kidding 😉
I’m looking forward to my second viewing in a few days.
Rogue One is redundant. Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES.
The hallmark of a corrupt leader: Being surrounded by yes men.
‘The best visual effects in the world will not compensate for a story told badly.’ - V.E.S.
‘Star Wars is a buffet, enjoy the stuff you want, and leave the rest.’ - SilverWook
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Can someone explain to me what’s wrong with Vader’s dialogue? (Not counting that James Earl Jones sounds older, or the voice modulation.) I can’t remember his dialogue word for word (I might have forgotten some odd lines), but as I was watching the film I thought it was fine. I especially thought his “don’t choke on your aspirations” line was spot on.
I’ve read elsewhere that some people feel that Vader isn’t supposed to say snarky things like that, which I don’t get at all. The OT had several moments of Vader being snarky and intimidating at the same time.
I disagree. That line was totally out of character for Vader. Quippy Vader is not. Im quickly going though my head as I type this and I cannot recall one line from Vader in the OT where he quipped. He was always business. Help me jog my memory.
One of the things that I personally always liked about Vader was how he could be quippy and serious at the same time. He wasn’t just physically imposing he would often express with wit as well in the form of clever, and often somewhat humorous, threats.
Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.
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Was General Dodonna CGI too? or partial CGI?
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I thought I’d like to give a thorough explanation as to why I think that Cassian Andor is a FAR SUPERIOR character, and has a far superior character arc, than that of Jyn Urso. I know it’s an unpopular opinion. But please hear me out, because I truly do enjoy discussing what peoples thoughts are for all movies. Here’s my reasoning:
Jyn tells Saw Gerrera that she basically doesn’t give one shit about the Empire. She straight up does not care. She basically says that she refuses to acknowledge the destruction of the empire. And this is fine if you are setting up a character arc that pays off. But instead, she see’s the hologram of her father and all of a sudden, she has this crazy new interest in destryoing the death star and fighting the Empire. She completely reverses her stance on a HUGE issue. Why might you ask?
Because her daddy is involved with the death star, therefore she now has skin in the game.
She chooses to fight and take a stand because of that single Hologram? Pretty pathetic, and rushed if you ask me. Her arc basically happened in like two minutes. She changes as a character immensely, and then stays pretty much the same throughout the rest of the film: A brave, outspoken opponent of the empire. I want an arc that feels earned, and justifiable. I find that we get that with Cassian.
He has been in the fight since the age of 6 like he said. He is established in his first scene as someone who stood on morally gray ground, even though he was on the side of the Rebellion. Then he is ordered to do questionable things like taking out Jyn’s father. When he is ready to snipe down Jyn’s father, he witnesses Galen protecting people, and admitting to his involvement in active rebellion against the Empire. He see’s someone just like him (Galen), who stands up against the Empire. This makes Cassian ultimately rethink the direction his life is taking, and who he has become because of what his beliefs are. This makes him question his foundation upon which all his decisions are made. But when Jyn tells the Rebellion that her father knew where the plans were and that he planted a weakness in the superweapon, the Rebellion won’t believe her. But Cassian does.
He believes her because he saw the true character of her father. He saw a man devoted to his cause and his ideals. Cassian has solid ground to believe that he really would send a message concerning the location of the plans to Jyn. Cassian now has a opportunity… One last daring mission, which represents everything he believes in: fighting against the ruthless power of the Empire and standing up for the freedom of all people.
Cassian in the end, finally succeeds, and dies with the individual who helped him rediscover his purpose (Jyn). It’s a beautiful ending for him as a character. It involves rediscovering what one’s core beliefs and self-purpose are. It is truly powerful material in my opinion. I felt he was really fleshed out and had a fantastic arc. I know it’s an unpopular opinion as I said before, but that’s just my two cents.
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(Jyn) She was Fighting the Empire with Saw until he dumped her… She then went off under a different identity and felt betrayed like what she was a part of had ousted her or made her feel unwanted or not good enough.
So she gave up caring as She felt she Lost not only her “Real” mum & dad but also her Surrogate dad dumped her. And she did not know how to find SAW either.
But it really was all done and explained a bit too quick. It was not given enough weight.
But I like shady Cassian too and Jyn.
I think in the first Assembly she was on Jedha presumeably looking for Saw Gerrera or always had been part of his group.
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Just finished watching the RLM review of Rogue One.
Though they are well spoken individuals with genuinely interesting opinions.
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Just in from a French Film maker Xavier Gens
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1164755/
Apparently the earlier version of Rogue One featured Saw vs Vader. It explained how he lost his legs on Geonosis and was crushed by something and trapped whilst his lungs were also consumed by this insectocide the empire used to wipe out the Geonosis Insect type creatures.
Vader chopped his legs off.
This story comes from a friend of the film maker because of French Dubbing work and someone he knew has seen the footage.
I can actually believe this back story to be true. The scene with his Medical droid and on Life Support are clearly missing so this Flashback is missing scene. (10 Years before Rogue One)
So now all we are need to know how Chirrut became Blind but can see the Crystals.
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Just in from a french Film maker Xavier Gens
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1164755/
Apparently the earlier version of Rogue One featured Saw vs Vader. It explained how he lost his legs on Geonosis and was crushed by something and trapped whilst his lungs were also consumed by this insectocide the empire used to wipe out the Geonosis Insect type creatures.
Vader chopped his legs off.
This story comes from a friend of the film maker because of French Dubbing work and someone he knew has seen the footage.
I can actually believe this back story to be true. The scene with his Medical droid and on Life Support are clearly missing so this Flashback is missing scene. (10 Years before Rogue One)
So now we are need to know how Chirrut became Blind but can see the Crystals.
Interesting if true! It fits the canon.
Keep Circulating the Tapes.
END OF LINE
(It hasn’t happened yet)
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I can’t help disagreeing strongly. There are tons of great movies and stories where you know what is going to happen. Surprise is not an artistic value per se.
What you are talking about is called dramatic irony. It occurs when there is so much meaning and revelation in the story, that you can enjoy and take pleasure in watching it over and over again throughout the years even though you already know what will happen in the plot. Each time you entertain yourself with the story, a new layer, a new depth to one of the characters may reveal itself that you didn’t see before. This is the phenomenon that takes place when literature teachers all over the world teach classics to their students year after year, and some 20 years later they are still finding some new gem that they didn’t notice before. It’s the same phenomenon that happens when I watch Empire Strikes Back for the 1,000th time or see King Lear for the 10th time. This phenomenon only happens through the most well-written of stories, and it only happens when a very good writer, in command of his or her craft, is writing those pages.
It is a very different phenomenon from the one you were alluding to: the random plot-twist! Where the audience’s pleasure is only gratified through suspense. When the pleasure in the motion picture is only derived from answering the question “what happens next?”…it stands to reason that a viewer will enjoy the film much less each time they watch it, rather than continue to enjoy it more and more, as in the previous example of dramatic irony.
The WTF just happened plot-twist is only well executed if it is meaningful, as Vader’s reveal was, insomuch as that new revelation causes the viewer to go back and reassess the meaning of every previous scene and every previous action in a way they had not previously considered.
Is every story or motion picture going to be that complex? No. But if it’s not, then it needs to exhibit some other cadre of strong filmmaking traits if it is to stand the test of time. What other aspects of Rogue One or The Force Awakens cause them to rise to memorable status? Do they possess visuals along the lines of a Kurosawa film? Are they edited as masterfully as the trench run sequence in ANH? There are other ways in which a film can stand the test of time.
But some ways it will not stand the test of time include vfx, which will date sooner rather than later, and nostalgia porn, which will be lost on people within a few years. Making a movie filled with fanservice might please you now in your short sighted and I would argue misguided desire to live in the past (as that review alluded to), but it will not reflect well on these films and will one day not reflect well on your own memories either.
Just one man’s opinion.
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I am at one with Rogue One and Rogue One is with me
I am at one with Rogue One and Rogue One is with me
I am at one with Rogue One and Rogue One is with me
😃
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I can’t help disagreeing strongly. There are tons of great movies and stories where you know what is going to happen. Surprise is not an artistic value per se.
What you are talking about is called dramatic irony. It occurs when there is so much meaning and revelation in the story, that you can enjoy and take pleasure in watching it over and over again throughout the years even though you already know what will happen in the plot. Each time you entertain yourself with the story, a new layer, a new depth to one of the characters may reveal itself that you didn’t see before. This is the phenomenon that takes place when literature teachers all over the world teach classics to their students year after year, and some 20 years later they are still finding some new gem that they didn’t notice before. It’s the same phenomenon that happens when I watch Empire Strikes Back for the 1,000th time or see King Lear for the 10th time. This phenomenon only happens through the most well-written of stories, and it only happens when a very good writer, in command of his or her craft, is writing those pages.
It is a very different phenomenon from the one you were alluding to: the random plot-twist! Where the audience’s pleasure is only gratified through suspense. When the pleasure in the motion picture is only derived from answering the question “what happens next?”…it stands to reason that a viewer will enjoy the film much less each time they watch it, rather than continue to enjoy it more and more, as in the previous example of dramatic irony.
The WTF just happened plot-twist is only well executed if it is meaningful, as Vader’s reveal was, insomuch as that new revelation causes the viewer to go back and reassess the meaning of every previous scene and every previous action in a way they had not previously considered.
Is every story or motion picture going to be that complex? No. But if it’s not, then it needs to exhibit some other cadre of strong filmmaking traits if it is to stand the test of time. What other aspects of Rogue One or The Force Awakens cause them to rise to memorable status? Do they possess visuals along the lines of a Kurosawa film? Are they edited as masterfully as the trench run sequence in ANH? There are other ways in which a film can stand the test of time.
But some ways it will not stand the test of time include vfx, which will date sooner rather than later, and nostalgia porn, which will be lost on people within a few years. Making a movie filled with fanservice might please you now in your short sighted and I would argue misguided desire to live in the past (as that review alluded to), but it will not reflect well on these films and will one day not reflect well on your own memories either.
Just one man’s opinion.
Alderaan, I respect your opinion… but I do feel as though you’re spending way too much energy deconstructing this film. You talk like a freshly educated film major, full of sound and fury, and as a film major myself who spent a trimester writing a paper on Andrzej Wajda’s War Trilogy and another just on Hitchcock’s Vertigo, you just need to realize that this is just mass marketed entertainment and there’s nothing wrong with that.
I equally love Jan Svankmajer and Rogue One/The Force Awakens. I certainly don’t expect the same thing from them and enjoy them on their own terms.
I certainly wasn’t expecting a character piece on a young woman looking for her father, abducted by a totalitarian regime. I was expecting lasers, robots and explosions.
What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.
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Oh don’t mind me Mavimao, I’m only here for a day or two venting my frustration at watching another Star Wars film that disappointed me. I don’t begrudge anyone else a different opinion. Pretty soon I will go back to occasionally popping in only to check up on restorations of the OOT.