Rogue One * Spoilers * Thread — Page 49

Which do you prefer…

this

or this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZD99X_S7SA

?

Dune is actually the perfect example and a good history lesson in terms of the TV cut how not to stage a complicated sci fi involving numerous planets. The theatrical version perfectly set the stage and explained to us carefully and thoughtfully. The TV edit was botched and clunky.

Can you even imagine the opening to STAR WARS with a planet label before the action starts.

I feel I have made my point and I feel very strongly about this. Sorry but if the report is true. It makes me a bit sad in a way.

You can show pictures of objects with names against them to a young child and say them out loud and they just will not grasp what you are showing them or telling them. But if you tell them a story and you engage their imagination the chance of grasping what you are trying to teach greatly increase. The same applies to adults funnily enough we never grow up. That is all I have to say on the matter. God help us as we begin this new millennium.

Interesting fact - Tatooine is never mentioned in the whole of Star Wars (episode IV). Is the Name of the planet important?

Yes it could be if different planets are being referenced from other planets only by name and the name is not established.

Perhaps the Label happens when we are looking at the surface of each planet or across the exterior space view carrying over to the surface. I would just much rather have a history lesson and watch the film personally. Perhaps “Saw” could tell us about this galaxy we know very little about… A long time ago in a galaxy far far away.

Oh man, that looks so boring…

honestly I get it, it’s been done loads of times before in other films but captions in Star wars to explain a place Bar subtitles for alien language are to me out of the question.

Although the prequels had their faults and some people got confused. Star Wars in particular always left things like those explaining captions or telling you what year it was and what country you were in what planet you were on.

None of this really matters too much.

The very first thing you see is almost like a bed time story.

even the lord of the rings prologue set things up ever so well. Did we ever see captions saying “Mordor” “Rivendell” explaining all the locations. I don’t think so. It was not needed. We need our head on the cushion before we can begin the bed time story. A quick history lesson would suffice. Tell me don’t show me, or tell me and show me.

Star Wars and Lord of the Rings and films like this… That is what set’s them apart they tell you a story they don’t show you a story.

Once you start introducing captions in English or any other language from our home you are back on planet earth in a way unless it’s subtitles for our understanding of conversation they are important a lot of the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvA3Cjpff-M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypAAsmgVmhk

I have no issue with the opening crawl to Star Wars movies but I think the problem was that the opening crawl for Rogue One could not explain what they needed it to explain in any sort of capacity as to be of much use. It has nothing to do with willingly breaking the mold of tradition only the usual tool (opening crawl) of the tradition could not possibly convey what they needed it to.

I understand opting for generic captions like any other movie I just wish they could have been more inventive and kept a bit closer to tradition sort of.

Your also lying if you think a caption saying Tatooine before the Blockade runner followed a Massive Star destroyer flying overhead suits your taste. I know you better than that. 😃

It just feels regressive even Indianna Jones knew how to set up up different locations via the map shots in really interesting ways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb3CK07CKSM

Ronster said:

Which do you prefer…

this

or this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZD99X_S7SA

?

Hard to say. Virginia Madsen’s pretty damn beautiful there …

Fan summary from a screening of the first 25 minutes of the film:

http://www.jedinews.co.uk/conventions-events/articles/rogue-one-presentation-mexico-city/

The huge thing here (as I see it, anyway) is that there’s mention of the Whills, and maybe the Chirrut Imwe character is one (whoever’s writing this is vague as hell). If they’re explicitly bringing the Whills into this, it could be huge. If this non-Jedi human is one, I’m guessing they’ve made the Whills into an order of Force-believers separate from the Jedi who concern themselves with keeping a historical record of the happenings in the SW universe.

Also, apparently there are no wipes.

I’ve always assumed they were too. I remember reading about an early theory that Yoda was a member of the Whill race that Lucas soon shot down. And I think there was some speculation that the Force entities form the Mortis arc of TCW were Whills, and/or the Force spirits from those last few Yoda episodes, but that was similarly denied. This has instantly become the aspect of this movie that I’m most curious about.

DuracellEnergizer said:
Yep, thank ol’ George for this. He loves making galaxies the size of solar systems.

Kinda like seeing Hosnian Prime explode from the other side of the galaxy as if it’s in the same solar system?

Ugh. And I had almost wiped that silliness from memory, too …

ATMachine said:

SW generally hasn’t had captions to introduce planets - it would kind of clash with Lucas’ preferred cinema verité aesthetic used in the OT.

I don’t know if I’d really call Lucas’s preferred aesthetic cinema verite. Star Wars is about as far from something like say a Cassavetes film as you can get, stylistically. Certainly some things were inspired by documentary filmmaking but let’s not forget that documentaries use captions all the time.

Once again we’ve fallen into the trap of comparing a presentational element of this film with previous SW films. Rogue One is a stylistic departure so all bets are off when it comes to tradition. Many war films use location headers so RO would be keeping in line with them if it did as well.

“First comes the day
Then comes the night.
After the darkness
Shines through the light.
The difference, they say,
Is only made right
By the resolving of gray
Through refined Jedi sight.”
―Journal of the Whills

or the dropped quote from Star Wars perhaps

"… And in the time of greatest

despair there shall come a savior,

and he shall be known as:

THE SON OF THE SUNS."

-Journal of the Whills

Straight away this builds something… I would advocate the use of this passage it’s quite beautiful.

That temple on top of the rock on Jedha is the “Temple of the Whills” If this group or institution went about chronicling the history of the Jedi then it would be cool to learn what is relevant about it.

As far as stylistic format departure goes we now are heading for “Like any other movie would do it” bog standard so if you want / need labels on stuff. To me it’s not been thought through well enough to convey the information well enough to avoid the labels. It’s a small but very significant loss in how one should tell a Star Wars Story.

Whats next? “Memento Star Wars” tell it in reverse chronological order?

When they said Rogue one won’t have an opening crawl they should have also added it will have captions for the planets do away with the wipes and the the format will be nothing like how Star Wars is normally. Get rid of A long time ago in a galaxy far far away while you are at it. Do we really need the end credits also?

I am Joshing but I’ll site the identity crisis now and It’s due to it being complicated but I hope they can handle it better somehow at the last moment as the film does look really good.

You know I just got thinking about how these days when you go to the cinema and as soon as the closing credits roll… Everyone can’t get out of the cinema quick enough.

SIT DOWN! SIT DOWN! the film is not over yet… Don’t you care who made this film? I am just as guilty just as the next person… But it never used to be like that.

Honestly and I ask this of you 100% honestly would you walk out of a cinema if the credits rolled at the start of a film?

I know I would not and I doubt many other people would either. It’s slightly off topic in a way but considering George Lucas got ditched from the directors guild for having no opening credits… It’s probably more poignant now than ever the validity of opening credits in this day and age.

Does it have anything to do with scrolling writing not feeling like being part of film and a tonally disconnected medium at odds with everything you have seen come before it?

I would say yes, that is why people know the film is over… now let’s get a bit crazy here with some ideas!!!

What if the end credits for Rogue One rolled on that opening shot of Tattooine and moon and when the last credits rolled off the top of the screen. We got the first shot of Star Wars as an after credits scene with the Blockade Runner and the Star Destroyer going overhead…

Would that Keep you in your seat until the credits finished rolling?

That would be a huge interesting experiment In my humble opinion. Perhaps you might see the opening shot to Star Wars perhaps you might not… 😃

I’m pretty sure I can recall seeing somewhere that the English accent is supposed to be a Core Worlds accent in-universe. So he could just be from Coruscant without being an aristocrat.

Ronster said:

As far as stylistic format departure goes we now are heading for “Like any other movie would do it” bog standard so if you want / need labels on stuff. To me it’s not been thought through well enough to convey the information well enough to avoid the labels. It’s a small but very significant loss in how one should tell a Star Wars Story.

Whats next? “Memento Star Wars” tell it in reverse chronological order?

When they said Rogue one won’t have an opening crawl they should have also added it will have captions for the planets do away with the wipes and the the format will be nothing like how Star Wars is normally. Get rid of A long time ago in a galaxy far far away while you are at it. Do we really need the end credits also?

You really need to calm down. It’s a stylistic choice, plain and simple. I bet you anything if you removed those planet headers it wouldn’t make a lick of difference. Putting the word “Jedha” on the screen, for instance, isn’t going to tell you jack shit. All the necessary information will be conveyed otherwise, I’m sure.

As with the removal of the crawl (which, wait a second, the crawl is all about conveying information with text? at least be fucking consistent in your complaints) and the absence of wipes, this is a pure presentational change that will do much to give the film a different feel. I’m sorry that you can’t handle it but the fact that this film will be a huge stylistic departure from the saga films has been advertised since day one. Maybe you’ve had your fingers in your ears for the last couple years, but this has always been the case. Hope you can get over yourself in time for the film’s premiere.

Ronster said:

I am Joshing but I’ll site the identity crisis now and It’s due to it being complicated but I hope they can handle it better somehow at the last moment as the film does look really good.

Dominic Cobb

Don’t forget to add the last part where I explained that I was “Joshing” that means joking around I am pretty calm and having a giggle. I’m not that serious about it.

That was actually my point putting the names of the planets there will probably make little difference if you choose to educate yourself prior to watching the film like some of us have then you won’t need to see the names of them in the film and do they really matter.

There is apparently some text at the start but it’s not a crawl.

Ronster said:

I was “Joshing” that means joking around

Thanks Ric.

Ronster said:

Ronster said:

I am Joshing but I’ll site the identity crisis now and It’s due to it being complicated but I hope they can handle it better somehow at the last moment as the film does look really good.

Dominic Cobb

Don’t forget to add the last part where I explained that I was “Joshing” that means joking around I am pretty calm and having a giggle. I’m not that serious about it.

I didn’t quote the last sentence because it didn’t make any sense (what identity crisis? what being complicated?) and it was unclear to me what if anything you were “Joshing” about. I assumed you meant about doing away with the end credits too but it seemed like the rest of your post was quite serious in its misguided criticism of a film no one has seen yet.