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Rogue One * Spoilers * Thread — Page 102

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After the huge shoot out in the hallway there’s no denying her involvement. Captain Antilles and Princess Leia are both just delaying Vader for as long as possible, hoping Artoo can get away and find Obi-Wan. As for the transmissions being beamed. We don’t know if Vader saw that soldier hand off that data tape. His mission as mandated by Tarkin is to mop up the space battle and prevent ships from escaping. So he could have been on his way to try to stop the Tantive from launching. Alternatively, as the Tantive was docked inside of Raddus’ ship, Vader could consider them both just one vessel and as we saw, the plans were beamed up in about four or five chunks simultaneously.

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Tobar said:

After the huge shoot out in the hallway there’s no denying her involvement. Captain Antilles and Princess Leia are both just delaying Vader for as long as possible, hoping Artoo can get away and find Obi-Wan. As for the transmissions being beamed. We don’t know if Vader saw that soldier hand off that data tape. His mission as mandated by Tarkin is to mop up the space battle and prevent ships from escaping. So he could have been on his way to try to stop the Tantive from launching. Alternatively, as the Tantive was docked inside of Raddus’ ship, Vader could consider them both just one vessel and as we saw, the plans were beamed up in about four or five chunks simultaneously.

Exactly this.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

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captainsolo said:

Can we please talk about how now Leia’s feigned lack of knowledge about the Death Star plans being on board the Tantive makes no sense since Vader clearly saw a trooper get the floppy disk on board before the ship blasts off leaving him shaking a fist in a “I’ll get you next time!” pose.

Um, how would LEIA know that Vader saw that??

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Tobar said:

After the huge shoot out in the hallway there’s no denying her involvement. Captain Antilles and Princess Leia are both just delaying Vader for as long as possible, hoping Artoo can get away and find Obi-Wan. As for the transmissions being beamed. We don’t know if Vader saw that soldier hand off that data tape. His mission as mandated by Tarkin is to mop up the space battle and prevent ships from escaping. So he could have been on his way to try to stop the Tantive from launching. Alternatively, as the Tantive was docked inside of Raddus’ ship, Vader could consider them both just one vessel and as we saw, the plans were beamed up in about four or five chunks simultaneously.

That is all well and good, but it isn’t exactly elegant in terms of explanation. It’s rather a bit of lawyerly technicalities that allow Leia’s speech to work rather than being an organic and believable lie.

It’s much more believable that Leia’s ship was on the edge of the battle for a brief moment to receive the plans before jumping back to hyperspace on her way to recruit Obi-wan. Why they stumbled over this simple plot device is anyone’s guess, perhaps just so Vader can have the fist shaking moment of failure.

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Happy New Year folks!!!

It’s pretty obvious that the ending was retooled.

The short scene of R2-D2 and C3-PO on Yavin saying “the’re going to Scariff” Obviously the droids were not going to Scariff they were going to Tattooine. As was clearly explained earlier by Bail Organa when he talks to Mon Mothma.

“Skyhook come in Skyhook!”

That whole Darth Vader Slasher Sequence was an insert and the Tantive IV was combined with Raddus ship for more dramatic impact.

I am guessing but it’s more likely that a transmission was Beamed from Raddus ship or there is concept art for a half moon ship that would have probably beamed the transmission on. Basically you are watching a re-jigged ending but the remnants of the alternate (original) ending were still left in the film so far as C3-P0 and R2-D2 Mon Mothma and Bail Organa and him sending Leia to get Obi-wan.

This ending totally contradicts these earlier scenes before the Vader slashing his way through the corridor.

The Brutal Vader scene with Saw (Flashback) was cut and replaced with Brutal Vader on the Tantive.

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It would have been cool to hear them talk about Skyhook a bit, but I’m content with what I saw.

Vader thinks the plans are in the computer having (presumably) not found them on the Profundity, but they’re actually physical copies, which he doesn’t know, and everyone is there “to stop [him] this time.”

The Rebel troopers stall Vader to give the others time to get the plans off the Profundity’s computer and onto the Tantive IV. Vader realizes the plans aren’t there and are probably on the fleeing corvette. He chases it down.

Captain Antilles stalls Vader to give Leia time to get the plans to Artoo. Vader learns the plans aren’t on the computer and that Antilles was stalling (and actually doesn’t know anything), so he kills him and orders the troopers to find the passengers who might have the plans. They find Leia, who’s just given them to Artoo and causes a distracting ruckus.

Leia stalls Vader to give the droids time to get to the planet. The Star Destroyer gunners don’t know what’s going on with the boarding party and the plans, so they ignore the “malfunctioning” empty escape pod, allowing the droids to escape. Meanwhile, Vader knows Leia is lying, but also knows she knows something about the Rebels (she shot obviously-Imperial troopers on a ship that just fled Scarif) so he captures her, hoping to learn about the Rebel base. As control of the Tantive IV is consolidated, Vader is told of the escape pod and realizes she might have hidden the plans there before jettisoning it, orders the commander to send a detachment of troopers down to get them, and says “there will be no one to stop us this time” because he’d just been frustratingly stalled over and over, not realizing she gave them to a couple of droids who will give the afore-mentioned detachment the slip, and then again when they escape a locked-down Mos Eisley, which ultimately leads to the destruction of the Death Star.

The thing about the Death Star plans is that, while they mean everything to the Rebellion, because (we now know) they know about a hidden flaw in the construction of the station… most of the Empire doesn’t seem to care so much, partially because they don’t know what the Rebels do. Vader isn’t interested in the station compared to the Force, especially after he realizes Obi-Wan is still alive. Tarkin and most of the officers (except Motti) think that the station is invulnerable no matter what the Rebels know about it (again, the Empire doesn’t know about Galen’s “fuse” until Captain Bast tells Tarkin that they’ve analyzed the Rebel plan of attack, Krennic was the only Imperial who truly knew about it). Vader and Tarkin even let our heroes go (remember, they know that the the ship they captured in the remains of Leia’s home planet blasted out of Mos Eisley which is on the planet where they lost the plans, not to mention that Obi-Wan Kenobi came out of retirement for this, they know they let the plans go to the Rebels) in order to lead them to the Rebel base, which is their true main objective.

The last minutes of Rogue One and the first act of A New Hope is basically a lot of luck (or the Force =P) and stalling the unstoppable forces that are Vader and the Empire just long enough to keep the plans one step ahead of them.

This all feeds into Vader being more of a lackey character in Episode IV, too. He kinda fails his way through Star Wars, really. He fails to get the plans, he fails to destroy the Rebel base, he gambles with the Death Star and loses it. Vader doesn’t come into his own until he discovers Luke and becomes very driven to find him.

To me, it’s amazing that they were able to weave a new story in so closely to such a revered and sacred (to us) story with very minimal shoehorning or toe-stepping.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

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TV’s Frink said:

Don’t forget the part where Krennic lands too far away from everything. Now, it doesn’t have to bother you, but you still have to mention it, otherwise you’ve not done a proper review of Act One.

Haha … I was drinking coffee when I read this. Now it’s all over my ipad screen.

Excellent.

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The Problem is not so Much the scene of Vader on the Profundity.

It’s more the fact that it was made very clear Leia was going to Tattooine to get Obi-Wan, and C3-P0 and R2-D2 exclaim probably before they board the Tantive IV parked outside the Massassi temple “The’re going to Scariff”

That is the point of the obvious re-tooling and leaving plot remnants of the alternate original ending and the new re-jigged ending.

It’s a little bit at odds with it’self never mind it being at odds with the Original Star Wars made in 1977.

It’s ok but it could have been done a bit better. It’s contradicting itself though.

Now go and fetch me one of those skyhooks 😃

Is there any wonder that C3-P0 and R2-D2 feel shoehorned in considering their Dialogue and probably their Cameo was cut to shreds to include them but so as to not contradict the ending in a “Massive way” although they left Bail and Mon Mothma in there which do pretty much the same thing contradict the Ending in a “Massive Way”.

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I’m of the mind Artoo has the plans before the Tantive is captured. They certainly can’t be on the “ATM card” Leia is putting in him. I think all she’s doing at that point is recording the message and giving Artoo his marching orders.

Also keep in mind when they get to Yavin, they hook up Artoo to a large unit to do essentially a data dump. That looks like something that would take a little time to do.

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Where were you in '77?

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Oh. I added so much to it that I forgot I was editing and not writing that last post. I may have rambled slightly.

Might be worth re-reading.

SilverWook said:

I’m of the mind Artoo has the plans before the Tantive is captured. They certainly can’t be on the “ATM card” Leia is putting in him. I think all she’s doing at that point is recording the message and giving Artoo his marching orders.

Also keep in mind when they get to Yavin, they hook up Artoo to a large unit to do essentially a data dump. That looks like something that would take a little time to do.

I disagree. I think from the way they put emphasis on the card (which they downloaded the plans from the Profundity onto, I’ll remind you) and then emphasis on physically handing it to Leia, that the card holds the plans.

Ronster said:

The Problem is not so Much the scene of Vader on the Profundity.

It’s more the fact that it was made very clear Leia was going to Tattooine to get Obi-Wan, and C3-P0 and R2-D2 exclaim probably before they board the Tantive IV parked outside the Massassi temple “The’re going to Scariff”

Yeah, Bail is going to send Leia to Tatooine to find Obi-Wan. That much we know from what he says, and we know Artoo and Threepio are stationed on the Tantive IV from Revenge of the Sith. They probably think they’re headed to Tatooine, so when everything is suddenly redirected to Scarif because Jyn and Cassian et al went rogue, Threepio expresses his disdain for being left out of the loop.

I assume Leia’s ship was docked with the Profundity in orbit above Yavin IV considering we see Admiral Raddus at the Rebel meeting to discuss attacking Scarif, after which he leaves in a huff, which is then when Bail goes to give Leia her mission. When Raddus hears about Rogue One’s attack on Scarif and decides to go fight, she’s kinda trapped and along for the ride in his ship, not knowing she’d end up with the plans.

Once she gets them and escapes, she continues the mission Bail gave her to find Obi-Wan, but this time with more urgency since she now has the plans. And of course it’s all thrown for a loop when Vader catches up with her and she’s captured, but it all works out for the Rebels in the end.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

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SilverWook said:

I’m of the mind Artoo has the plans before the Tantive is captured. They certainly can’t be on the “ATM card” Leia is putting in him. I think all she’s doing at that point is recording the message and giving Artoo his marching orders.

Also keep in mind when they get to Yavin, they hook up Artoo to a large unit to do essentially a data dump. That looks like something that would take a little time to do.

Very good point and something I never thought about size of Data file. I think that the Plot was always Stolen Data Tapes and the Several Transmissions that were beamed aboard the Tantive IV.

Another contradiction is that the Size of the Death Star Plans were an issue in the original cut and having to beam them out. Come the Insert of the Darth Vader Slasher scene the Size of the File is no longer an issue and it can go from Data Tape to Simm Card. Another Contradiction to the Narrative there also.

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Tyrphanax said:

Yeah, Bail is going to send Leia to Tatooine to find Obi-Wan. That much we know from what he says, and we know Artoo and Threepio are stationed on the Tantive IV from Revenge of the Sith. They probably think they’re headed to Tatooine, so when everything is suddenly redirected to Scarif because Jyn and Cassian went rogue, Threepio expresses his disdain for being left out of the loop.

I assume Leia’s ship was docked with the Profundity in orbit above Yavin IV considering we see Admiral Raddus at the Rebel meeting to discuss attacking Scarif, after which he leaves in a huff, which is then when Bail goes to give Leia her mission. When Raddus hears about Rogue One’s attack on Scarif and decides to go fight, she’s kinda trapped and along for the ride in his ship, not knowing she’d end up with the plans.

Once she gets them and escapes, she continues the mission Bail gave her to find Obi-Wan, but this time with more urgency since she now has the plans. And of course it’s all thrown for a loop when Vader catches up with her and she’s captured, but it all works out for the Rebels in the end.

No you are making stuff up. is that you “Gilroy?”

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Ronster said:

Tyrphanax said:

Yeah, Bail is going to send Leia to Tatooine to find Obi-Wan. That much we know from what he says, and we know Artoo and Threepio are stationed on the Tantive IV from Revenge of the Sith. They probably think they’re headed to Tatooine, so when everything is suddenly redirected to Scarif because Jyn and Cassian went rogue, Threepio expresses his disdain for being left out of the loop.

I assume Leia’s ship was docked with the Profundity in orbit above Yavin IV considering we see Admiral Raddus at the Rebel meeting to discuss attacking Scarif, after which he leaves in a huff, which is then when Bail goes to give Leia her mission. When Raddus hears about Rogue One’s attack on Scarif and decides to go fight, she’s kinda trapped and along for the ride in his ship, not knowing she’d end up with the plans.

Once she gets them and escapes, she continues the mission Bail gave her to find Obi-Wan, but this time with more urgency since she now has the plans. And of course it’s all thrown for a loop when Vader catches up with her and she’s captured, but it all works out for the Rebels in the end.

No you are making stuff up.

I mean it’s all right there in the movies, but okay.

Ronster said:

SilverWook said:

I’m of the mind Artoo has the plans before the Tantive is captured. They certainly can’t be on the “ATM card” Leia is putting in him. I think all she’s doing at that point is recording the message and giving Artoo his marching orders.

Also keep in mind when they get to Yavin, they hook up Artoo to a large unit to do essentially a data dump. That looks like something that would take a little time to do.

Very good point and something I never thought about size of Data file. I think that the Plot was always Stolen Data Tapes and the Several Transmissions that were beamed aboard the Tantive IV.

Another contradiction is that the Size of the Death Star Plans were an issue in the original cut and having to beam them out. Come the Insert of the Darth Vader Slasher scene the Size of the File is no longer an issue and it can go from Data Tape to Simm Card. Another Contradiction to the Narrative there also.

You see on the computer behind Jyn when she sends the plans that they upload to the Profundity in four or five separate parts. Or multiple transmissions. Tobar brought this up earlier, I believe.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

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So should they have had 5 credit cards?

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Ronster said:

So should they have had 5 credit cards?

I mean it all fit on the one card, didn’t it? So obviously the card can fit all the data on it, whatever “filesize” it may be.

Unless those Rebel troopers just put some Word documents on the card they all died in the hallway to protect as a joke.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

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Heavy Compression?

Seriously I like the film but it does not mean I can’t spot an insert when I see one. Especially one that contrdicts a lot of what we saw come before it. I Like Darth Vader Slasher Maniac Scene but… It was not part of the original ending.

That is all I am saying. It does not mean I hate it 😃

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I’m not sure what subtext you’re reading into my posts, but I’m just here having a nice time discussing a movie that I enjoyed and what I took parts of it to mean and connecting dots from what I saw on the screen. I’m not into inserts or cyborg subplots or contradictions or anything, I was just dropping my two cents on the way it played out in the theater.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

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It’s a bit like watching Return of the Jedi and the Shuttle Tydirium arriving on Hoth rather than at Endor though.

It’s that far off. If it’s ok for you then it’s ok for me.

Just Saying.

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Ronster said:

It’s a bit like watching Return of the Jedi and the Shuttle Tydirium arriving on Hoth rather than at Endor though.

It’s that far off. If it’s ok for you then it’s ok for me.

Just Saying.

I couldn’t disagree more, and I’m not really sure I understand what you’re talking about.

But to each their own.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

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Leia going to Tattooine with Captain Antilles and R2 & 3P0 but all of a sudden being part of of the profundity Mothership Hatching out of that ship at Scariff like a jack in the box.

Also what are so many Alderaan soldiers doing aboard a Mon Calamari Vessel?

I am cool with it but what ever it was before it got changed it was probably paired down from Leia having to turn back from Tattooine as Admiral Raddus sends out a distress signal and Leia scoops the Plans somehow via another transmission just before the Profundity get’s oblitterated.

It will be something along these lines I think.

It’s still good but Obvious Re-shoots are obvious Re-shoots especially when it’s contradicting.

It’s Equally Possible that if you had the Scene of Luke Looking through his Binoculars on Tattooine Vader would have been aboard a part of the Tantive that had a power outage (remember that explosion) when he slayed those Rebels and the Card was passed through the door. Obviously it get’s passed to a soldier and then to Leia.

If there was ever evidence that the films were going to overlap perhaps this was an overlap and was retooled perhaps it’s not an insert but simply paired with Raddus ship.

The Card could be where Obi-wan was located on Tattooine.

Is the guy who has the card the same one who screams “GO!” and locks the door? (actually he say’s “Launch!” But it very much looks like “Gooooo!”)

I don’t have the answer I know I like it though. I think it was an overlap with A new hope it was just paired down in editing. It would definitely explain “Prepare the Escape Pod’s” then it would be 100% Gold.

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I literally came home From watching rogue one (finally).

Some thoughts - I felt the story started way too slow at the start than the build up came too fast (if that made sense) in which gave the story abit of “lacking” premises.

I really liked Donnie Yen’s character and how it relates to us around religion. You have an ancient guardian who really believed in the force but was not a Jedi. I thought it was cool to give us viewers faith in the force. Really cool and I thought at times funny in the action scenes.

Darth Vadars castle was interesting and we get to see a more darker scene from Vadar. Like someone pointed out it just seemed like Vadar is always set up for failure and rogue one was an example of it.

Was anyone disappointed that they took JJ Abram’s camera shots again for another Star Wars movie? I thought it was too up close and didn’t give it a Star Wars feel like the original sagas.

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A couple of more bit’s of evidence about Vader Slasher sequence could have been an overlap with A New Hope.

Before Vader Appears “We Hear a Creaking Hull Sound”

The Paint Job of the corridor of the profundity is the same paint scheme as the exterior of the Tantive IV

The Shot of the Clamps disengaging are probably a shot of the Star Destroying Clamps engaging (when reversed) and Holding the Tantive IV in the belly of a Star Destroyer Devastator.

The interior Docking Bay of the Profundity looks Suspiciously similar to that of a Star Destroyer.

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I’ve a heap of thoughts on both the TFA and RO movies to go into sometime, but the recent tragic loss of Carrie Fisher has put me off doing so for the time being.

So in the meantime, let me wish everyone around these parts a HAPPY NEW YEAR! 😃

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Remember the force will be with you… Always

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JS642fmhk0

There’s the Tantive flying back from it’s mission to tattooine showing up to recieve the plans from the original cut of the film whilst alongside the Devastator. This is Zal Dinnes and those pilots we never saw who lost their lives. The VR mission that got developed for playstation was then made into a mission that involved going to wobani to rescue Jyn that was actually the planet Lah’Mu.

Go Figure.