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Return of the Jedi: Radical Re-Edit — Page 6

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Just wanted to bump this thread back up a bit.

I am reading  the new Rinzler book and quite honestly I can't stop thinking about this edit while reading the book.  So much of what they got wrong, well, we all got to see it.  Your fanedit has gone a long way to restoring this movie to something that actually fits in the OT and I actually enjoy watching this movie now.

It is interesting to read how a lot of people at the preproduction phase are pretty much WTF about the ewoks.  Love it that McQuarrie basically said, I'm not abeting this by making art of it and left the work to others.

I am a huge David Lynch fan and I am actually happy that he didn't direct this.  Lucas had a way that he wanted to go with this and hell or high water that was going to happen - cute and Ewoks.  I keep reading the book and it blows me away that as smart as he is that he can't reconcile the serious nature of a movie where a man essentially is told the solution to the universe's problems is to murder his father and his father's boss and the rest of what he did.  Here, let's have a belching toad thinger.  It's not yin and yang, it's two north poles pushing against each other.

I was delighted to read that they considered Peter Weir as I am a huge fan of his film Fearless.  Also am glad that he didn't work on this as his movies tend to be about the interior landscapes of his protagonists and while that would have served the Luke story exceptionally well again the clash with the Ewoks would have eviscerated anything that Mr. Weir's talent brought to the production to elevate it to the quality of say TESB.

Thanks again for your edit. If you ever tinker with it more I'd really like links.  There is only one thing that I would change with your last iteration but it's something that I know you feel strongly about not including as much as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

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Great post.

I didn't know about Peter Weir being in the running - he would have been a great choice. He's a massively underrated director, IMO, who seems capable of making pretty much any kind of movie he puts his mind to.

Of course Lucas probably didn't want a talented free thinking director after what happened with Kershner.

If/when I make any further changes (I have a list of about 20 things to try out from Bingowings alone) I'll let you know.

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The book makes it pretty clear that Lucas wanted what I will call a hood ornament of a director, specifically one who knew his place.  They state in one paragraph that I read last night that he was actively trying to replicate a television model of production as opposed to a film industry model as far as the relationship between the producer and the director (I was ignorant that there were even differences).

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Daneditor has the patience of a saint. He fought to give me a fair chance at viewing this, and I am eternally grateful.

I've watched it. This is an edit I'll be citing for a long time to come. The same happened after I watched the radical re-edit of TPM. With that in mind, I'll permit myself to be brief tonight.

I'd like to address the topic of the siblings. Ideally, Luke and Leia never would have turned out related. My opinion there is the same as ever. I am tempted to shift blame in films, though. I'm convinced the problem was really with ESB all along.

To put it bluntly --- Yoda's line was stupid. ESB had too many loose ends anyway, never mind a foreshadowing of "another". It shouldn't have been there. At all. I foresee locking horns with people on this issue in the future.

I forgive ROTJ for the sibling issue. These forums inspired me to reevaluate my opinion.

The damage is done. To change tone, minor details, and pacing in a fan edit is a fluid matter. Luke and Leia as siblings is set in stone in viewers' minds. It's embedded into pop culture. Go back in time a month and talk to me then, I would've frowned on the inclusion. But now? All I can say is that it was handled far better here than in the conversation with Obi-Wan "What Am I Even Doing Here Anymore" Kenobi.

Good job.

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A great fan edit could very well be made where they're unrelated. And given romantic undertones (JasonN's ambition). I'd watch that in a heartbeat. But most viewers would have a hard, hard time accepting that by virtue of universally-accepted canon.

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Great that you finally got the edit. :)

The sister subplot has been cut and put back into this edit so many times over the last couple of years. Like you I don't really care for it, and would like to cut it for good. For me it's more to do with focusing the conflict on Luke/Vader, which this whole edit is basically about, although the contrivance of Leia being his sister feels a step too far.

The problem I always found was, if Vader doesn't mention Leia why does Luke suddenly attack? Ator, a couple of pages back, solved this problem, but I haven't got round to editing it yet. It'll mean reediting the entire battle of Endor... not a particularly appealing thought.

I also don't love the fact it'll make the edit three or four minutes shorter, and I wanted to get it up to two hours, not cut back to 1h45m.

 

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daneditor said:

Great that you finally got the edit. :)

The sister subplot has been cut and put back into this edit so many times over the last couple of years. Like you I don't really care for it, and would like to cut it for good. For me it's more to do with focusing the conflict on Luke/Vader, which this whole edit is basically about, although the contrivance of Leia being his sister feels a step too far.

The problem I always found was, if Vader doesn't mention Leia why does Luke suddenly attack? Ator, a couple of pages back, solved this problem, but I haven't got round to editing it yet. It'll mean reediting the entire battle of Endor... not a particularly appealing thought.

I also don't love the fact it'll make the edit three or four minutes shorter, and I wanted to get it up to two hours, not cut back to 1h45m.

 

All due respect to Ator: I have an alternative that would lighten your work load. It would up the tension and be the logical conclusion to Vader's telepathic messages earlier in the edit.

I'll humbly keep the idea to myself, if we're set on the present choice.

 

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No need to be humble. I'd like to hear your idea... particularly if it's easier to do than Ator's. :)

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Awesome. :)

I can't speak for your original intention, but this is the feeling I had when watching a certain scene. Luke sits in his X-Wing cockpit and flies to rendezvous with the fleet. He gloves his prosthetic hand. Reminiscent of Vader's mechanical body. And Luke has this odd smile while Vader tries to communicate from light-years away. The edit gives the impression that the young Jedi is starting to crack a bit well before he ever steps into the Emperor's throne room.

What causes Luke to snap in this theoretical edit?

Nothing in particular triggers his outburst. He sits in the shadows, losing to fear and anger. The dark side is thick like fog in the throne room.

Drag this small part out a few seconds, add heart-beat and hyperventilation sound effects, cut Vader's line. . . and then abruptly END those sounds. Then he snaps. Luke's "No!" could be replaced by an enraged scream.

Problem solved. The structure of the battle is intact. How many hours of work would that save you fixing a structure that's already good as is?

Could someone throw together a rough example of this? I'll try to get Windows Movie Maker working on my computer.

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It's interesting, and I'd like to see it edited together, but my gut instinct is that Luke's not that far gone. Perhaps if some of his lines are cut - namely his repeated insistence that he won't attack Vader - it would work.

But in my experience some ideas that seem guaranteed to work don't and vice versa, so like I said, until we see the scene in motion we won't really know.

It's interesting that you view the Luke/Vader cockpit scene as Luke cracking up. Must admit, that's not my reading of it. For me he's scared of becoming Vader, but I wouldn't say he's becoming mentally unstable. It's cool that you see it differently, but maybe that's why I'm less on board for Luke attacking Vader without a trigger.

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I have a pretty big list of changes and experiments I need to get working on - and I'll add your suggestion to the list. But exactly when I'll be able to find the time I really can't say... editing is a major time hog. And my life right now is pretty hectic.

Hopefully by then Tydirium/some other cool fan films will be released, and give me some more material to work with. It'd be nice.

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Sounds like a plan!

Two new scenes I will adamantly defend in all future editions: Coruscant at the beginning and the sand storm. The details of the first may change in the future, but it does need to be there. Virtually the entire OT happens in the galactic sticks. For the film to be sandwiched between Coruscant shots, however brief, is to connect the major war to the galaxy at large. It helps to see the Emperor on his throne on the city planet. Far as the sand storm, that was shot because viewers needed a breather after the action-packed Jabba parts. We still do. It feels like a necessary break.

The extra scene of storm troopers versus rebels in the forest is interesting. The battle feels more wide-spread on Endor and overall bigger as a result. I feel we need one more added scene like that to help balance this one out. That feeling is abstract, yeah. We're seeing a battle that's borderline isolated from the bunker. In the future, when more high-quality material is available, I'd really want to see a second battle happening on the "border" of it all.

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Reegar said:

The extra scene of storm troopers versus rebels in the forest is interesting. The battle feels more wide-spread on Endor and overall bigger as a result. I feel we need one more added scene like that to help balance this one out. That feeling is abstract, yeah. We're seeing a battle that's borderline isolated from the bunker. In the future, when more high-quality material is available, I'd really want to see a second battle happening on the "border" of it all.

Agreed. Hopefully that extra battle footage will come from this:

http://www.tydirium.tv

Supposedly it's being worked on again after being abandoned in the mid 2000s - and if it does finally get released it'll be a goldmine for ROTJ edits in the future.

 

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Reegar, I just noticed your sig.... thanks very much!

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It's the least I could do to help spread awareness. :)

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i wonder if any of the story could be re-purposed as 'bothan' spies for the opening? (bothans could just be humans)

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ben_danger said:

i wonder if any of the story could be re-purposed as 'bothan' spies for the opening? (bothans could just be humans)

There's a fan film called Broken Allegiance:

https://vimeo.com/2847715

It starts with a couple of humans on a small ship fleeing Coruscant and the Executor. At one point I used that scene to open this edit while specifying in the opening crawl that they're Bothan spies who have just stolen the Death Star plans.

I thought it was a nice way to start the film with a bang, but ultimately decided the footage wasn't good enough to use - the fx are good for a fan film, but don't match the look of ROTJ at all. I also agreed with the criticism that it's a bit weird starting with characters we've never seen before (and will never see again).

But it would be nice to start ROTJ with a space battle, and it makes sense to set up the mcguffin in the opening scene.

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I know I'm bumping an aging thread but, I came across this post a few days ago and have been intrigued by what I have read. In fact I cannot stop thinking about the possibility to have a ROTJ without all the terrible aspects.

Do you have any updates on this project. I Wish you luck in this endevor and I would love to see your Workprint.

I have read the last 6 pages and would like to throw in my two cents.

Luke and Leia related: They pretty much have to be.

Leia and Lando went to Jabbas While luke was finishing lightsaber He senses Leia in trouble goes to yoda. Yoda scene - tells him there is another. No Ben Scene to tell him so it is still up in the air. Early movie plot point to think about. Who is this other Skywalker? But you kinda know from the telepethy between themin ESB. Luke gets to Tatoine to find 3PO and then sends the droidsto Jabba Luke goes in. Jabbas scenes less boba fett and rediculosness. Bosh should get into palace no hassle. Luke should get a hassle. It would be cool if luke arrived on a speeder.

They meet with rebels, Luke isnt late.

Chewbacca should be in charge of the mission. And it should be Kysshhk instead of Endor. I think it could be done you can use line from Christmas special when they get there HAN "I Know your familys down There" Luke leaves as soon as they land to head off vader because he knows he would be looking for him. And Vader should get to Kysshhk just before the reunion with the rebels

NO EWOKS-- There is no way with the fate of the entire galaxy on the line is Chewie gonna set off a meat trap, And then a group of firece rebels are going to let themselves be captured. And what happens to all of the other troops they landed with? WTF it makes no sense it should be fast paced they are going to land get to the bunker blow it up, the fleet is on the way. The empire has to know they didnt land at a base, Luke tuns himself in they go searching, Did anybody think they were going to leave the planet in the same ship they landed in? It's more like suicide. They should get there at dark just turning light luke leaves  back to it.

right after Luke  leaves he runs into ben in the woods for a breif moment, lukes pissed and starts I thought you said...... make it short, safely annonomus, he digests it ben fades away but you hear him bury you emotions deep down luke.....

At the same time or just before The Ben Scene. Vader gets to death star. I think this should be the first time vader is there, Emporer is pissed because of the first death star and failure to capture Luke. So he barges in chokes out jerjerrod chokes out the royal guards Emporer says I thought i told you to get back on the command ship. You don't need the scene at all where the Deathstar is not on schedule. Vader goes to Kysshhk.

Cut the speeder bikes and ewoks get to the bunker maybe throw a break to them scoping out the bunker. I read you needed an excuse to put Fett in the Bunker. Here it is. Your friends are walking into a trap,next scene enter the bunker Fett is in there. To quote Ackbar "It's a trap"

Please don't use Jangos Voice it's Blaspheme.

Leia Getting wounded is what prompts Lukes Outrage. He can't bury his feelings like Ben told him too and he just realizes its leia when she's shot thinking about everything

Sidious line EP3 At last all the jedi are gone might work right before luke tosses saber.

If you did get rid of them being related the other could be Anikin!

Vader can talk to the Emporer earlier in the movie with the hologram from SE ESB because the original was way better and then you can use the lines from ESB and the first Emporer vader conversation.or overdub your own script. And send him to Kyssshhk (Endor) around the same time luke goes. It should be made clear the emporers dissapointment with Vader. He's looking forward to Luke.

Awsome ProjectHope I Didn't write too much.

My fan edit ideas
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Return-of-the-Sith-Revenge-of-the-Jedi-by-marduk666/id/17356

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All the other troops are in the forest.

Han, Luke, Chewie and the Droids (that's the entire command staff and the two shiny machines that have no immediately obvious reason for being there) are looking for Leia.

My beef with the Ewoks is they are like the Gungans and the Neimoidians, a cipher for distasteful ethnic stereotypes, in this case the comedy savage (Lucas does this to real people in Temple Of Doom). If they looked cute but the reality of them was that they were a fully fledged primitive culture that have already been fighting the Imperials you have the same idea but fixed and stripped of it's distasteful undertones.

This idea is worth consideration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Hmmm, interesting thread.  I didn't download the workprint, but I watched the other videos, and read the whole thing.  I like a lot of the ideas being thrown around here.

Regarding the lightsaber construction scene:

I think the reason it doesn't look convincing is because it's very obvious that someone took a 2D image of Luke's lightsaber, chopped it up, and made those pieces float around.  If one wanted to pull this off for real, I think it would still be possible, as long as one was willing to film some new footage.  One would just need a good, disassemble-able Luke lightsaber prop.

Making a lightsaber prop that looks good both inside and out is a bit of an art form, but there's plenty of people out there with a knack for it - and I bet if you told them what it was for, you would get some people interested in helping (for example, over on thecustomsabershop.com forums, or maybe on fx-sabers.com forums).  

I don't know how deep you're planning to go with this edit (to the point of getting a prop made and filming footage of it floating/connecting), or even if you're still working on the edit, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there.  Heck, I'd probably give it a go myself if I still had access to machine tools.

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marduk666 said:

Do you have any updates on this project. I Wish you luck in this endevor and I would love to see your Workprint.

 There hasn't been any work done on this edit for a few months now - and there probably won't be until some new footage comes online. Probably the Tydirium fan film, or some other cool looking fan film set on Endor.

Re: getting rid of the ewoks. It would take a huge amount of reshooting and/or great fan film footage to make it work. So you would replace ewok stuff with rebel troops on the ground planning and fighting, and maybe then it would be possible. If you cut the ewoks without having some really great replacement footage it just wouldn't work.

Re: the lightsaber building scene. It looked like total crap so I got rid of it. You'd need to be GREAT with cgi stuff (or be willing to spend some money on this edit... and, nope) to make it look other than total crap... and I'm not even half decent. Hopefully Adywan and his team of magicians will do something similar, because I really dig the idea.

Anyway, the workprint is still online, so if anyone else wants to download it I'm just a PM away.

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The saber build mock up looked like a really good mock-up (so not total crap). Contextually it is jar-jarring just dropped into an edit in it's current form but I do hope someone like Ady will remake the idea with models and body doubles etc.

That scene fully realised would have been one of the highlights of the film in my opinion so to add it in an edit would be amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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Hello Dan Editor

I have seen your edit and thoroughly enjoyed it, my favroite changes have to be making Han Solo come across as a loving boyfriend rather than an unkind, overprotective, moron. It is also heart warming to see a character that cocky to make such a change over a trilogy rather than a step backwards in maturity from the last film.

 I also love the change of music at the end, this is so much better than Yub Nub. I have to say the original is the rubbish but you fixed that real good.

I am just getting into Fan Editing (I've wanted to do it for ages but my 2.3 GHZ CPU and 3.0 GB RAM stopped Sony Vegas from working) and I am hoping to fix those problems in the future, I was wondering if I could help you maybe create a Star Wars Return of the Jedi Remastered. Because much as I loved you edit it was quite bad quality and I belive it should recieve a remastered release with 5.1 surround sound and a cleanup and upscale. I will do this all for you because I love this edit alot and I want to make it look like a proffesional film. This will include changing the Jabba subtitles to make them on the video and the same font as the original, rather than off the video and a different font. Can I have permission to do this.