RedLetterMedia's Revenge of Nadine [TPM 108 pg Resp. [RotS Review+RotS Preview+ST'09 Reveiw+Next Review Teaser+2002 Interview+AotC OutTakes+Noooooo! Doc.+SW Examiner Rebuttal+AotC Review+TPM Review]

was:

RedLetterMedia's .TPM 108 pg Response. [RotS Review+RotS Preview+ST'09 Reveiw+Next Review Teaser+2002 Interview+AotC OutTakes+Noooooo! Doc.+SW Examiner Rebuttal+AotC Review+TPM Review]

Thread

"Finally it's here! The truly epic review/critique/analysis/film making educational video of the 1999 film "Star Wars: The Phantom Menace" There was so much to discuss with this film it had to be long so please don't complain. If you think it's too long then don't watch it. In this opening segment I discuss the major flaw of The Phantom Menace which is the characters and the lack of connection with the audience."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI

via: http://www.metafilter.com/87542/I-mean-how-much-more-could-you-possibly-fuck-up-the-entire-backstory-to-Star-Wars

via: http://techland.com/2009/12/16/the-best-review-of-phantom-menace-ive-ever-seen/

One of the longer reviews, well made and seems to capture the spirit of the people who wanted TPM to be ANH2. At times it drifts into humor which might test people's patience, but the details which are discussed and critic'd show a real sense of in depth investigation. Or they just watched the movie and behind the scene featurettes all at once, either way interesting juxtapositions, even if the points are familiar. Hope a prequel person creates a similarly well thought out response.

(i recommend downloading the clips and watching at a slightly faster speed in vlc, since the narrators drawl can be understood at x4-x16 speed)

doubleofive said:

There is a response to this. You can defend a movie with a handsome pilot, fantastic introduction of the handsome pilot, fantastic plot focused on the handsome pilot, and the featuring of a handsome pilot with an amazing sense of style.

 

Fixed!

BarBar Jinkx said:

doubleofive said:

.... Snip .... bunch of random action sequences tied together by the thinnest of plots.

 

That is all that ANH was, but it was something new & spectacular for its time & you cared about the characters

I always felt that ANH was a series of broadly drawn character moments linked together by well placed logically constructed action sequences.

It didn't need a complex and prescribed plot, between Leia being captured to the Death Star blowing up the characters drove the situations which dictated the events.

TPM had little in the way of defined characters, the situations made very little sense and the events seemed to be triggered like enemies spawning in a badly designed computer game. A prescribed plot might have helped but that would be like sewing lungs to an already drowned goldfish.

I recall a sci-fi story I read a long time ago. t was about a mapmaker who eventually made a map so acurate it was as large as the real world.

Something about a review that's almost as long as the movie brings that story to mind.

TheBoost said:

I recall a sci-fi story I read a long time ago. t was about a mapmaker who eventually made a map so acurate it was as large as the real world.

Something about a review that's almost as long as the movie brings that story to mind.

If you cut out the humorous asides the review would be at least half the length but arguably less entertaining.

Besides TPM as a work of cinema compacts epically so many moments of insanity sometimes into single shots that de-constructing them is going to take longer than the average review.

I really enjoyed this.  I stayed up until 1:30 in the morning last night because I couldn't put it down.

So many very good points were made that made TPM movie look totally stupid.

What's sad is that alot of these changes really can't be made. 

I'd start suggesting things but I'll save it for another thread.

I'm looking forward to Ady's response of this TPM review.

Alright, just finished watching the entire 70 minute presentation. Yeah, some of the humor is odd and could be left out, but it does help to lift the spirits in parts. Such as in the end, when he is regaling how great ANH was compared to the stagnant TPM, I couldn't help but feel very depressed and saddened that a part of my childhood had been shit on. Then that pizza roll popped up and kind of reminded me that "eh, it's just a movie in the end and no real vital part of your life". So, yeah, the humor is appropriate at times.

I think the real gist of this whole thing is how a genius can only be so when challenged, rebuked, and pushed into it. However, that same person can be a buffoon in situations when no one has the gall to call them out.

Anyhow, I say this was a wonderful review and a perfect explanation of how I feel personally. I commend the fella who came up with this, job well done.

ferris209 said:

Alright, just finished watching the entire 70 minute presentation. Yeah, some of the humor is odd and could be left out, but it does help to lift the spirits in parts. Such as in the end, when he is regaling how great ANH was compared to the stagnant TPM, I couldn't help but feel very depressed and saddened that a part of my childhood had been shit on. Then that pizza roll popped up and kind of reminded me that "eh, it's just a movie in the end and no real vital part of your life". So, yeah, the humor is appropriate at times.

Which is why I thank god that I first saw the Star Wars trilogy when I was in middle school and that it wasn't the great cinematic part of my childhood experience (that honor belongs to The Dark Crystal and other works by Jim Henson).

doubleofive said:

His final conclusion that Lucas is a great idea man who needs to be restrained reminded me so much of Zombie that I wonder if he didn't have a part in it (RedLetter probably just read some of Zombie's articles).

 Trust me, I am definitely not the first person to post those sentiments. I think its an obvious conclusion to anyone who was disappointed with the new films and understands how both trilogies were made. He says he doesn't really know the facts after all so maybe he is wrong, but he's pretty much on the money.

The SE wasn't that bad.  The new Mos Eisly was a good idea, but the Rontos had no business being there. 

The Greedo was the only really no dought bad change.  He did good with the windows in Cloud City.

Ghost said:

The SE wasn't that bad.  The new Mos Eisly was a good idea, but the Rontos had no business being there. 

The Greedo was the only really no dought bad change.  He did good with the windows in Cloud City.

You're forgetting about the new "Han meets with Jabba" scenes that he added (which was pretty damn terrible and featured a god-awful CG Jabba the Hutt).

You're forgetting about the new "Han meets with Jabba" scenes that he added (which was pretty damn terrible and featured a god-awful CG Jabba the Hutt).

Yes, that too.

And the Fraggle Rock characters in Jabba's Palace, singing that ineffably stupid "Jedi Rocks" song. I don't know anyone who thinks that was a good idea.

That was unnesessary too.

I wonder if GL is really as good as people think he is.  ANH was a great movie, but how much did GL have to do with it?  I'll also bet that Irvin Kirshner did things his way. in ESB, hence ESB being a top 5 movie of all time.

 After watching this review, I can't help but wonder if GL knows what he is doing, and if he even cared about the PT when he made them?  It is really sad.

I also really hope that he doesn't screw up this upcoming T.V. series.  That could be the final nail in the coffin for George. 

The guy in the review made a very good point in the movie about how everyone would just assume that the next installment of any SW movie would automatically be an instint hit, when really it doesn't work that way.

I have a feeling that GL might want to finally do something about this film.  It looks like he is making a CG Yoda for a SE, which is good, but he needs to sort out the important things brought up in this review.  Ady can only go so far.  George has alot more resources locked up in vaults. 

So I hope this review really makes Lucasfilm feel like totall crap, and I hope they take this review as a guidline to making a their SE.

Ghost said:

So I hope this review really makes Lucasfilm feel like totall crap, and I hope they take this review as a guidline to making a their SE.

That's never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER going to happen.....

Why, you may ask?

Because George Lucas and Lucasfilms don't give a f***ing sh*t what that guy or any of us think of their films - as long as Lucas is happy with his "vision", the importance of the audience's opinion doesn't amount to a barrel of donkey d***s.

You think that just because Lucas is making a CG Yoda for TPM, that he's listening to what the TPM audiences are complaining about? That's utter garbage. Remember when we all complained repeatedly about the bullsh*t that he pulled with the '97 SE and what does he give us with the 2004 SE? Even more bullsh*t changes! Then when we complained even more, they said ok, we'll give you the original SW films.... with a complete sh*tty transfer, inferior audio/video quality, and the only way to buy it was to have to get it with the 2004 SE along with it.   -_-

If there is ever a SE of the Prequels put out, it's more than probable that they won't be any changes to correct/improve the films, but just Lucas adding in more stupid-sh*t subplots that aren't needed or focus on crappy characters like Jar Jar or more terrible CG elements or characters being reintegrated in the story where they're not needed at all.

GL/LFL do listen to the public on certain occassions.  The reason he's partly releasing this 'GL Blockbusting' book is to counter the argument that films like SW and Jaws created the modern Blockbuster movie concept.  the book didn't come about because of one or two people saying the idea, but by having the idea percolating and repeated by sources on all levels until GL/LFL felt they needed to counter the argument.

So will RedLetterMedia's piece change things no, but as Zombie has done with his book (http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/), they've added weight to the argument/idea by putting their ideas behind the concept to support it.  Over time that argument could be the prevailing wisdom or maybe not.

none

That new book kinda bugs me. Really, GL, really? YOU'RE gonna start lecturing about the details of film history being presented accurately, really? The kids in my building think cgi dinosaurs are a 70s thing!

I've not read Zom's book but the articles on his website do blow away all the spin that Lucas lays on about his 'vision' and how pre-planned it all is.

Hardly anyone writes a series with everything laid out and it's not a crime to admit to making things up as you go along (the amount of times I had to explain this to NuGalactica detractors...oh boy).

Clearly Anakin/Vader was never originally the main focus of the saga but if you listen to the spin machine everything we saw was delivered straight from the mountain on tablets of stone.

TPM is different from the other prequels because it was worked out on paper to some degree before it went into the treatment stage (where most of what's wrong with it happened). The other prequels were more art department/toy department lead.

As I've said many times in the Radical Redux thread I think it can be rescued but only with major restructuring.

The workprint of ANH was also a bit of a mess before Richard Chew, Paul Hirsch
and Marcia Lucas got their fingers into the cookie dough.

We don't have to worry about Lucas giving us the sack (the worst thing that can happen to us is a cease-and-desist if we try to make cash out of trying to sort the mess out).

Perhaps someone should take the best of both this and Confused  Mathew's rant, adding any points he missed and turn them into a TPM Misslist. and counter it with ideas tried and suggested in edits or in threads like the Redux and Starkiller threads as inspiration for people trying to fix it either as a stand alone or as the first part of a redone PT.

When the ROTJ:R thread starts up much of the attention the ESB/ROTJ wishlist thread gets will naturally drift off there (hopefully it won't go forever there Ady won't like all the ideas suggested there and some of them are real gems.

It does make sense I suppose to start a TPM Wishlist with a list of what's wrong and what has already been tried and suggested as a spring board.