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RedLetterMedia's Revenge of Nadine [TPM 108 pg Resp. [RotS Review+RotS Preview+ST'09 Reveiw+Next Review Teaser+2002 Interview+AotC OutTakes+Noooooo! Doc.+SW Examiner Rebuttal+AotC Review+TPM Review] — Page 3

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Finally watched some of this.

What the FUCK is wrong with this dude's voice? He sounds like the lawyer from "Idiocracy."

I can't believe that this tool and Confused Mathew are actually not clear about the plot of this flick. My 8 year old nephew understood it just fine. Are there some holes, yes. Are there points that can be nitpicked, yes. But to act as if you plain dont understand the plot is ridiculous.

This dude pulls five minutes out of the idea that the Trade Federation had no way of knowing that Qui-Gon and Obi were Jedis. In a decade I've never heard anyone with their head far enough up their ass to suggest this was even an issue that crossed their mind.

That's when I gave up on it.

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He went on, but I thought it was very interesting.

Anyone who wants to give ideas or suggestions for TPM, should watch this, these are the points that need changin.  If we can fix most of everything he said, we will be left with a pretty good movie.  And thats with out new visuals and intense editing. 

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JasonN said:

Ghost said:

Yes, TPM is most like the OT, but who cares, it won't be made into that good of a movie.  Unless Ady has a secret plan. hmm...

Because of course, only Adywan can save the damn Prequels....

(I'm not putting Adywan or his skills down whatsoever... I just find it so fricken hysterical of these people that believe that he's the only editor out there who can properly edit the SW Prequels into the great "dream come true" movies that everyone desired the Prequels films to be... especially when you consider that there are dozens of edits already out there by numerous editors and that they've all proven that no single edit of the Prequels will be universally accepted by all as the best, since each person has his/her own ideas as to what constitutes as a "Star Wars" movie)

Ghost brings Ady up in every post he makes.  He's a bit of a groupie.

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Boost: I haven't seen this yet, but you're right, that is one annoying thing that Confused Matthew does: play dumb just to get his point across. If he's not playing dumb...hoo boy. Then why am I watching you, Matt?

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It's a joke (a running idiom from his Star Trek review days).

Sure the humor isn't to everyone's taste but he makes many valid points.

It is worth watching all the way through (if the humor isn't to your liking have a pen and paper handy and just convert what he says into notes).

And like so many of Confused Mathew's points they could be addressed just by shuffling some of the scenes around, re-writing the crawl and dubbing a couple of the alien characters.

It was amazing that someone didn't take George to one side and suggested a re-edit or tandem alternate edits while they were making the film.

Surely one of the benefits of the innovations since the first films were made in digital editing is that it allows for several different work cuts to be made from the same material.

There was no need for the most anticipated film in a generation to be so muddled.

 

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Watched most of segment one - I  can't take that voice. I just can't. I don't care how spot on his analysis is - the presentation is intolerable.

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vote_for_palpatine said:

Watched most of segment one - I  can't take that voice. I just can't. I don't care how spot on his analysis is - the presentation is intolerable.

 It's not spot on. It's whiny and mostly arbitrary.

The plot of TPM hinges on that the blockade by the Federation is banal (something to do with taxes... it really doesn't matter) and that it's a front for something sinister.

The dude in the video pulls five minutes out of rambling about 'space trade' and how he doesn't understand something that is ultimately not even a part of the plot.

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TheBoost said:

vote_for_palpatine said:

Watched most of segment one - I  can't take that voice. I just can't. I don't care how spot on his analysis is - the presentation is intolerable.

 It's not spot on. It's whiny and mostly arbitrary.

The plot of TPM hinges on that the blockade by the Federation is banal (something to do with taxes... it really doesn't matter) and that it's a front for something sinister.

The dude in the video pulls five minutes out of rambling about 'space trade' and how he doesn't understand something that is ultimately not even a part of the plot.

 

To clarify, I meant to say "I don't care if his analysis is spot on" as in "He could be the most insightful critic in history and it would still be unlistenable." Not, "I thought his analysis was spot on but I didn't like listening to him." Sorry I wasn't clearer.

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 (Edited)

vote_for_palpatine said:

To clarify, I meant to say "I don't care if his analysis is spot on" as in "He could be the most insightful critic in history and it would still be unlistenable." Not, "I thought his analysis was spot on but I didn't like listening to him." Sorry I wasn't clearer.

 No sweat. I wasn't just ranting at you (sorry if it seemed that way) but at the heaps of praise this dude is getting.

I watched a bit more of this vid, to see if there was something brilliant I was missing,but I dont think the man makes a single bit of insight or joke based on the movie (his humor seems based on misogyny and creepiness) that hasn't been made before 10 years ago.

From some of the comments I've read on various sites, it's like this dude is Adywan, Zombie, Chris Rock, and Orson Welles rolled into one.

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 (Edited)

As I said before the humour isn't to everyone's taste but to say misogynistic is like accusing Johnny Speight of being a racist for giving the world Alf Garnett.

He isn't the character his playing (at least I hope not) he is lampooning the sort of isolated nerd fanboy rant by comparing it to the ravings of a serial killer (not the sort of joke that's going to hit everyone's buttons especially in the community he's addressing...though you should have heard me spitting feathers about Doctor Who over the Christmas holidays).

He does make really good points though.

Which is why I suggested someone taking notes and turning his and other detractors observations into a more universally palatable manifesto of what doesn't work which fan editors and cinema buffs can refer to without letting the presentation style get in the way.

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TheBoost said:

The plot of TPM hinges on that the blockade by the Federation is banal (something to do with taxes... it really doesn't matter) and that it's a front for something sinister.

The dude in the video pulls five minutes out of rambling about 'space trade' and how he doesn't understand something that is ultimately not even a part of the plot.

I fail to see how the reason for the Trade Federation blockading the planet does not form part of the plot.  It's the whole reason for the Trade Federation to be there - whatever the Trade Federation is.   I think most of Redlettermedia's criticisms are indeed spot on, and while I agree that the humor is questionable, I feel his criticisms need a more convincing response than "it doesn't matter."

Bingowings said:

Which is why I suggested someone taking notes and turning his and other detractors observations into a more universally palatable manifesto of what doesn't work which fan editors and cinema buffs can refer to without letting the presentation style get in the way.

 

I agree that a document outlining the problems with TMP would extremely useful.

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Chewtobacca said:

TheBoost said:

The plot of TPM hinges on that the blockade by the Federation is banal (something to do with taxes... it really doesn't matter) and that it's a front for something sinister.

 

I fail to see how the reason for the Trade Federation blockading the planet does not form part of the plot.  It's the whole reason for the Trade Federation to be there - whatever the Trade Federation is.  

I feel his criticisms need a more convincing response than "it doesn't matter."

The miniscule point of the plot is that there's a blockade because of taxes of trade routes (as cover for an impending invasion). Other than that... it actually DOESN'T MATTER.  What matters is that it's NOT about a simple tax dispute. Going into the details of a tax dispute the details of which has no bearing on the plot would not make great cinema.

Start of "Star Wars:" Princess Leia is on a diplomatic mission (apparently as cover for being part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor). Whatever it is, the specifics of it actually DON'T MATTER. What matters is she's NOT on a Diplomatic Mercy Mission.

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The most sophisticated defenders of the PT are those who praise it by association - and Bob Clark's review of TPM drops big names in cinema and references all sorts of important social issues. The meaning is plain: "If George Lucas can deal with such meaningful topics in his films, you must understand that these are important pieces of work." What a brazen attempt to attach gravitas to such a lightweight movie.

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It's not so much the Blockade itself but the weight placed on the feeble excuse for it.

In a ANH we are given a very quick broad stroke idea about who is who backed up by a potent image.

The Empire is a large tyrannical powerful despotic organisation and the Rebels are a small group of freedom fighters.

This is backed up by a small ship being pursued by a gigantic Star Destroyer.

In TPM the blockade makes no sense either in the true sense (what the Trade Federation hope to achieve) or the cover story.

If the Trade Federation have a problem with the Republic why are they invading Naboo?

What's on Naboo that they want so much to get Sith help in obtaining it?

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vote_for_palpatine said:

The most sophisticated defenders of the PT are those who praise it by association - and Bob Clark's review of TPM drops big names in cinema and references all sorts of important social issues. The meaning is plain: "If George Lucas can deal with such meaningful topics in his films, you must understand that these are important pieces of work." What a brazen attempt to attach gravitas to such a lightweight movie.

I agree. Anybody can stick Big Topics into a work of art. But it's supposed to be a work of art, therefore the movie has to do more than just bring up big topics. It has to make you FEEL something about them. And the prequels are no good at that, unless "Wtf is Yoda doing bouncing around howling?!!!" counts.

Also, as for discussion of big issues, there's no discussion in the prequels that's particularly intelligent. The prequels have a lot more pretensions to intelligence than the OT but ultimately they're dumber.

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TheBoost said:

The miniscule point of the plot is that there's a blockade because of taxes of trade routes (as cover for an impending invasion). Other than that... it actually DOESN'T MATTER.  What matters is that it's NOT about a simple tax dispute. Going into the details of a tax dispute the details of which has no bearing on the plot would not make great cinema.

Start of "Star Wars:" Princess Leia is on a diplomatic mission (apparently as cover for being part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor). Whatever it is, the specifics of it actually DON'T MATTER. What matters is she's NOT on a Diplomatic Mercy Mission.

 

I agree with what you say about Episode IV.  The mercy mission is just a pretext.  It is never revisited, because it doesn't need to be: it's just an excuse, and - yes - it doesn't actually matter.

In Episode I, you can't say the blockade over taxation of trade doesn't matter, and is never revisited.  It causes a crisis on Naboo.  Whatever it is that is being kept out of Naboo is obviously serious.  What is it?   Why is Naboo so severely affected by the lack of trade? Are we supposed to believe that any organisation called a "Trade Federation" does not really care about taxation of trade and it is just a pretext?  If they are not after trade, what is their motivation for being there?  They risk an invasion based on what? To get their hands on what?

The characters have to deal with the blockade later when escaping.  The whole situation is debated in the Senate and leads to the Chancellor being deposed.  The blockade has to be dealt with at the end: all right, it's been mysteriously replaced with one ship to give Lucas his usual save-the-day-with-one-big-bang ending, but nonetheless it's there.    The "pretext" and its consequences are part of the story throughout.  The same cannot be said for Leia's "mercy mission" excuse.

In Episode IV, after Leia's scene at the beginning, we go on to learn:

What the rebel alliance is;

Something about Alderaan to give us a good enough idea of what it is and why it would be plausible cover-story destination for Leia - no weapons, peaceful, part of the Old Republic, her home planet etc;

Why Leia is really going to Tatooine;

Why that big ship is chasing that little ship at the start;

The nature of the Empire.

It's a plausible start.   The princess is on the run because she has vital plans that must be kept out of imperial hands and needs help from someone on Tatooine. Knowing all this makes the beginning meaningful.

 

In Episode I, after the initial scene, we never learn:

What the Trade federation is;

Why it is interested in Naboo;

How Palpatine came to be involved with those funny-faced people and why;

Why a blockade would benefit a Trade Federation, and if it's an excuse for invasion, why the invasion;

Why a blockade instantly causes a crisis on Naboo.

It's an implausible start that does affect the rest of the film and is never explained by it.  Not knowing all this makes the beginning meaningless.

 

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Moreover, it makes perfectly good sense that Leia, who is an Alderaanian princess, secretly a rebel, and also "a member of the Imperial Senate," would go on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan, and use it as a smokescreen to conduct rebel business. It does not make any sense, given what little we know of the entities and institutions in Phantom Menace, that the "Trade Federation" would blockade Naboo over a "taxation of trade routes" dispute.

Using crises and altercations as pretext for something else is permitted, but they still have to at least make sense, or it's a case of lazy storytelling.

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The Eu tries to fill in those plot holes and discontinuities.  But the average filmgoer is not going to watch all the films, read all the comics and play the videogames to decipher the plot.

They also would not have read those prequels to the phantom menace novels that described the sith, or the politics of the trade federation, or palpaptine's setting up Chancellor Valorum so he could become chancellor and then emperor.

The sith history is still being written for instance in the unreleased as of yet old republic mmo, or the recently released third novel in the darth bane trilogy.  These days for star wars to make sense you have to almost digest 100% of the EU and LFL products.  Imagine not telling the clone wars in the movies so they could milk it for all its worth.

The prequels are a boring 6 hour skeleton plot, with poorly developed cardboard and cartoon characters, and scripts that should have had a least a few more drafts and less yes men. It also has too much greenscreen and cgi and makes the movie feel sterile and inhuman and not a real craftman's work of art which the oot was.

To expect one to read tie in books to make a movie make sense is just about the most lazy form of filmaking i have ever heard of.  If you can even call those video sequels films that were not shot on film.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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My suggestion of having the whole thing more like the Falklands/Malvinas conflict of the 1980's (with the indigenous Gungan's caught in the middle) makes more sense.

The Trade Federation's regime have their own domestic problems which they are trying to whitewash over by mounting a military campaign to reclaim a former colony from the Naboo.

They surround the planet, bomb their cities from space and hold it to ransom until the leader of the Naboo signs a treaty surrendering sovereignty of the planet back to them, calming the unrest back home.

They destroy the Naboo's communication satellites so they can't call for help from the Republic.

They don't realise that the Queen is back at Coruscant trying to find a diplomatic solution until it's too late (thanks to a bit of Sith manipulation).

Not having enough proof and not willing to wait for a Republican investigation she heads of to liberate her home herself.

The Jedi send two observers/bodyguards to protect her and verify her side of the story.

Her ship is shot down and limps to Tatooine to get the parts they need to continue.

They pick up Anakin along the way and finally end the occupation.

It goes in a straight line like ANH and the obvious opening scene little unarmed Naboo being surrounded by the Trade Federation fleet.

The bullies are surrounding the little kid in the school yard, a simple image like the tiny ship running from the giant Star Destroyer in ANH.

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Fellow members,
I just read The Digital Bits review of a documentary that's been uploaded in 7 parts on youtube. http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

just search for ''Star Wars: The Phantom Menace Review''

After reding this I had to see for myself and I find it brilliant (to paraphrase TDB)!

In my opinion, the guy behind it is right on the money on the values of Star Wars vs TPM, and has a great sense of humour about this all.

I urge you to read the review but also see it for yourselves.

And here is the Question : is this available anywhere on DVD format ?

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 (Edited)

Darn !
Haven't looked hard enough !
All right Mods please lock my thread...

Apologies...

Do you expect me to talk ?
No Mister Bond I expect you to DIE !