Recreating the PT from Original Film Takes

I know a lot of people think that the PT should be completely remade, but I really don't see it happening any time soon. I do think this idea could be viable though. I know that people think it's only fanboys that gripe about the PT, but I'm sure a LOT more people would jump on the bandwagon if given any other option.

Disney should try this:

Pull out the original work files for the PT. Every take of every scene. All original CGI files.

Give it to a competent director/editor/producer team.

Re-render the CGI with better detail and integration. AotC SHOULD look better than it does.

Find better takes/pull out a better performace from what's already there. People are always complaining about Jar Jar/Anakin... but honestly, there is one take that stands out as a sore thumb for me... when Padme meets Anakin, her line "You're a slave?" is god awful. We know she is capable of better. There has to be something better in the archives. And I truly think you could fix Hayden's Anakin.

And come on - The Birth of the Rebellion scenes are complete. Put the best subplot of RotS back in!

CGI is cheaper (and better) than ever, and with all photography complete...

Topher Grace has you covered.

http://collider.com/topher-grace-star-wars-prequels/150596/

He might, if he had access to all of the outtakes. :)

I shudder to think of what the outtakes are, considering what Lucas deemed sufficient to make it into the final cuts.

georgec said:

I shudder to think of what the outtakes are, considering what Lucas deemed sufficient to make it into the final cuts.

Well, we do know that the other takes would not be nearly as "fast or intense" as what we got in the final edit.

I think it would be an interesting project, if nothing else to see how discarded takes could improve the films.

However, I think that DE is correct in that they really should just be redone entirely because damn that shit is bad.

Stop being right, Bingo.

All of Anakin's scenes would have to be reshot in II and III to remove the horrible Hayden Christensen, that would be a start.  But not a complete fix you would still have the horrible direction and horrible script.  Ineptitude of Lucas and all involved to tell a compelling and moving human story.

Anyway there is no reason to redo them they were extremely successful business ventures as was Crystal Skull despite what fans thought of them.

Just like the sw blu ray saga set records and there is zero reason for Disney to release the originals based on sales of the already available set.

What to please a few people ?   They are a business and in business to make money.

The possible Few thousand who care about film preservation or like the old versions better is not enough to undertake a major and expensive restoration.

It's not the takes that were wrong (most were probably the best takes available). It's not the CG that was wrong (some shots were done well). It's not the line readings that were wrong (they mostly did a reasonable job with the material). It's not even the plot that was wrong (A political drama of galactic scale is inherently cool).

It's the philosophy that was wrong.

Truth is always found in Pure, Beautiful Simplicity. It doesn't matter if the surface of the movies looks good or not, it's the soul of the movies, the story, that matters. Luke had a goal (become a Jedi). He worked toward that goal (trained with Yoda). He found himself unable to continue (Vader was his father). He overcame this obstacle (redeemed Anakin Skywalker and became a Jedi).

In short, Luke had a worthy goal, and overcame his weaknesses to achieve it.

Anakin has several goals:

1. Explore all the stars in the universe.

2. Become a Jedi.

3. Return to Tatooine and free the slaves.

4. In particular, free his mother from slavery.

Right of the bat, his motives aren't very clear. He wants to leave, but he also wants to return, for example. Furthermore, he never achieves any of these goals except #2, and that happens somewhere off screen in between movies. Even then, he doesn't truly become a Jedi, as he is married to Padme in violation of the Jedi Code. By Episode 3, his original goals are irrelevant. It's difficult to care about a character who casts aside his own goals so lightly.

The original trilogy works because we can believe that Anakin Skywalker was once a good man. In the prequels, I can't imagine that Anakin was ever a good man.

nightstalkerpoet said:

And I truly think you could fix Hayden's Anakin.

I don't think it would even be very challenging, actually. There are at least a few AOTC deleted scenes that use production audio. His delivery sounds a lot more natural in many of those scenes.

Redoing/reintegrating all the CGI would probably result in a technically more superior end product by virtue of being newer. First, I don't think there's much of anything wrong with the effects in AOTC as they are and second the fact that it could probably done even better now doesn't (or shouldn't) suggest there was ever anything wrong with the original effects.

NeverarGreat said:

It's not the takes that were wrong (most were probably the best takes available). It's not the CG that was wrong (some shots were done well). It's not the line readings that were wrong (they mostly did a reasonable job with the material). It's not even the plot that was wrong (A political drama of galactic scale is inherently cool).

It's the philosophy that was wrong.

Truth is always found in Pure, Beautiful Simplicity. It doesn't matter if the surface of the movies looks good or not, it's the soul of the movies, the story, that matters. Luke had a goal (become a Jedi). He worked toward that goal (trained with Yoda). He found himself unable to continue (Vader was his father). He overcame this obstacle (redeemed Anakin Skywalker and became a Jedi).

In short, Luke had a worthy goal, and overcame his weaknesses to achieve it.

Anakin has several goals:

1. Explore all the stars in the universe.

2. Become a Jedi.

3. Return to Tatooine and free the slaves.

4. In particular, free his mother from slavery.

Right of the bat, his motives aren't very clear. He wants to leave, but he also wants to return, for example. Furthermore, he never achieves any of these goals except #2, and that happens somewhere off screen in between movies. Even then, he doesn't truly become a Jedi, as he is married to Padme in violation of the Jedi Code. By Episode 3, his original goals are irrelevant. It's difficult to care about a character who casts aside his own goals so lightly.

The original trilogy works because we can believe that Anakin Skywalker was once a good man. In the prequels, I can't imagine that Anakin was ever a good man.

A few things.

Much of what you describe are not goals of Anakin's, they were from a dream he had when he was a kid. And I don't mean that in the sense of highest aspirations he's placed on a pedestal and hopes to one day achieve. I mean they were literal dreams. He had too much jawa juice before bed one night and he dreamed he freed the slaves. The one real fantasy that he'd "always dreamed of" was becoming a Jedi which, as you say, he did accomplish.

But if we're talking about characters and goals... well, Luke never did make it to Toshi Station to pick up those power converters, he didn't take droids to Anchorhead for a memory wipe, he didn't have the droids in the field by mid-day, there wasn't hell to pay, Han never did get around to paying Jabba back (even though he had the money by the time credits rolled in ANH), etc etc etc.

I realize which forum I'm on and so this is probably barking up the wrong tree but let's be fair here...

I don't think the philosophy really is wrong. I think the execution of the philosophy is wrong.

RotS is vastly improved simply by injecting the deleted Birth of the Rebellion scenes back in - I personally would love to see the included Jar Jar scene where Palpatine thanks him for putting him into power. If you're going to include the politics in the plot, you can't skimp on it it. The Birth of the Rebellion is the most directly OT relevant set of politics, and also the most interesting.

When good FINISHED material such as that is left on the cutting room floor, I have to believe that there are things in the vault that can greatly improve these movies.

As for the AotC effects... my problem with them is the flat nature of them. RotS really got a handle on making CG interact well with actors on screen (without looking cartoonish), and I think AotC could benefit from it - just look at the huge gathering of clone troopers at the end of AotC to see the problem with the effects.

And seriously - I don't think it's fair to point fingers at Hayden. When you watch a film, all you're seeing is a mashup of the director's vision of what the performance should be. You can't simply judge months and months worth of filmed performances by four hours of on screen footage.

You could edit down someones life to only bad days, arguments, a single road rage incident and rare offensive comments, and with that limited view assume that they are an awful person. But you can't jump to that conclusion, because those 10 bad days in an entire year don't show you the single mom who works two jobs so that she can afford to put her daughter in ballet classes, works in a soup kitchen in her free time, and hasn't taken a day for herself in years. It's all very skewed to the people higher up's vision.

thecolorsblend said:

A few things.

Much of what you describe are not goals of Anakin's, they were from a dream he had when he was a kid. And I don't mean that in the sense of highest aspirations he's placed on a pedestal and hopes to one day achieve. I mean they were literal dreams. He had too much jawa juice before bed one night and he dreamed he freed the slaves. The one real fantasy that he'd "always dreamed of" was becoming a Jedi which, as you say, he did accomplish.

But if we're talking about characters and goals... well, Luke never did make it to Toshi Station to pick up those power converters, he didn't take droids to Anchorhead for a memory wipe, he didn't have the droids in the field by mid-day, there wasn't hell to pay, Han never did get around to paying Jabba back (even though he had the money by the time credits rolled in ANH), etc etc etc.

I realize which forum I'm on and so this is probably barking up the wrong tree but let's be fair here...

Luke and Han's preliminary goals in ANH are there because they are torn between the world that they know and the world of adventure. The first step of Luke's journey is to reject the goals imposed by his uncle and achieve his destiny, whereas Han's journey is in doing something that isn't for money. He decides not to return to Jabba, and instead joins the Rebellion. When the goals imposed by Owen become irrelevant, Luke makes a firm decision to become a Jedi. When Han decides to return and help the rebellion, we don't hear a firm decision. Naturally he will have second thoughts in ESB.

I'm not trying to be hard on the prequels because I think that the Original Trilogy is perfect in every way. Han probably could have paid back Jabba and still helped the rebellion, just as Anakin could have probably freed his mother and still trained to be a Jedi.

Anakin became a Jedi Knight based on a lie. The council wouldn't have done it if they knew he was married. The marriage ceremony and clone army scenes at the end of episode 2 send a single message: failure. It isn't like the scene at the end of ESB where our heroes know that they've made mistakes, and must work to right them. It is that Anakin and the entire senate and Jedi order are already defeated, and even they know it. You might as well end the trilogy there, as it is obvious what will happen.

NeverarGreat said:

Luke and Han's preliminary goals in ANH are there because they are torn between the world that they know and the world of adventure. The first step of Luke's journey is to reject the goals imposed by his uncle and achieve his destiny, whereas Han's journey is in doing something that isn't for money. He decides not to return to Jabba, and instead joins the Rebellion. When the goals imposed by Owen become irrelevant, Luke makes a firm decision to become a Jedi. When Han decides to return and help the rebellion, we don't hear a firm decision. Naturally he will have second thoughts in ESB.

I'm not trying to be hard on the prequels because I think that the Original Trilogy is perfect in every way. Han probably could have paid back Jabba and still helped the rebellion, just as Anakin could have probably freed his mother and still trained to be a Jedi.

Anakin became a Jedi Knight based on a lie. The council wouldn't have done it if they knew he was married. The marriage ceremony and clone army scenes at the end of episode 2 send a single message: failure. It isn't like the scene at the end of ESB where our heroes know that they've made mistakes, and must work to right them. It is that Anakin and the entire senate and Jedi order are already defeated, and even they know it. You might as well end the trilogy there, as it is obvious what will happen.

Parts of my comments were meant more in jest than anything. Still, you raise valid points. With the acknowledgement that freeing the slaves wasn't one of Anakin's big goals, I agree with what you say. But that's the exact point. Episode II is called Attack of the Clones. The Republic is the aggressor in that conflict. Sure, the Separatists are led by greedy, conniving puppets but is every single one of those star systems equally evil? I doubt it. All most of 'em probably want is a fair shot and they don't see that happening under the Republic so they want out. As you say, the militarization of the Republic proves the game of democracy and freedom is over.

The Jedi have sold out their ideals to a system built on greed and perpetuated by the same. Qui-Gon (noble, competent, a strong sense of what's right) is what the Jedi should be; Yoda (deceitful, obstinate, dishonest) is what they are. Ensconced in their literal ivory tower, the Jedi were complicit in their own destruction. If the Jedi had given Anakin a single iota of validation and enfranchisement, there's every reason to think things could have turned out differently.

And understand, I'm not arguing the prequels were perfect. Far from it. But the stuff above is a big part of why I like them in general.

On a personal note, I'm defending the prequels (this aspect anyway) on a forum mostly filled with people I respect but who don't like them. So in deference to most of their preferences, this is probably my last post about this.