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moviefreakedmind said:
Did it happen in TFA? Then it was bad.Ok this is unrelated but who is the chick in your avatar?
Thank you. Shit was killing me.
.
Ranking the Star Wars films — Page 39
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Rey meeting Luke to train with him is the conclusion to the main plot of finding Luke and Rey’s own character arc in the film. There is a “to be continued” in that we know there’s more story that will be told but this is still 100% an ending to the story that the film is telling.
In an earlier draft of the script they found Luke about 2/3 of the way in but they realized once Luke showed up it became his movie. They needed this film without him to establish the new characters and how Star Wars is no longer Luke’s story, it’s Rey’s (though of course they intertwine).
Luke not speaking at the end is a matter of “can’t please everyone.” If he talked, a lot of people wouldn’t be happy (myself included). Star Wars endings are dialogue-less, remember? He didn’t need to say anything anyway when his face was already saying so much.
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*Disclaimer: It’s merely my opinion
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STAR WARS (My favorite film of all time. Lucas at his best. Most satisfying ending in the series. Stands on it’s own as story, I don’t think you can say that for any other Star Wars picture. )
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THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK (Yoda, Lando, Boba Fett, and Emperor Palpatine introduced. Imperial March. Maybe the best lightsaber duel in the series. An actual surprise in Vader’s revelation to Luke. One of the rare times a sequel is as satisfying as the original.)
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RETURN OF THE JEDI (Han’s rescue and Jabba’s palace sequence, non Special Edition, is great. I don’t mind the ewoks, but it’s the Imperial trap and subsequent space battle along with Luke and Vader’s duel in the Emperor’s throne room that make this one for me. Does have the weakest ending of the original trilogy however.)
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REVENGE OF THE SITH (I think it cleans up some of the mess from the earlier prequels. Lightsaber duels galore. I like the ending which is a call back to the original Star Wars.)
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THE FORCE AWAKENS (This one may rise in time but I cannot see it as being better than any film in the original trilogy. Really like Rey, BB-8, and Kylo - in his mask. Shot on film too. A lot to like, but…Basically a reboot of A New Hope. Music also not as strong as even the prequels, which may the best part about the prequels. Some non Star Wars feeling aliens, to me anyway. Also the least Star Wars like ending. Not really a self contained story as the original film was. However this one does get better with each viewing for me and depending on how it fits in the new trilogy it could be more satisfying but again this is a basic complaint that it relies too much on what comes after.)
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THE PHANTOM MENACE (In my opinion, and whatever one thinks of George Lucas, it was somewhat audacious to even set out to make a trilogy to perhaps the most beloved film franchise of all time. Even more, this was a prequel where everyone who saw the originals knew exactly where the story was going, and it manages to feel very different and fresh from the original trilogy. Also shot on film, looks the best of the originals. A very flawed film with some good new characters (Maul) and some horrid (JarJar), but the Duel of the Fates sequence, music and action, is great. Killed Maul off far too soon- Clone Wars notwithstanding. Weakest ending of the saga.)
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ATTACK OF THE CLONES (Questionable on many fronts. The romance seems forced and hokey. The Jedi council is blind and foolish but this does not seem to be a deliberate story choice. It’s almost like they want Anakin to turn to the darkside, in fact having a member of the Jedi council secretly in league with Sidious would have done a better job explaining their blindness. I like the planet Kamino, but not the Jango Fett plotline. It’s still Star Wars but the least satisfying episode thus far.)
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*Disclaimer: It’s merely my opinion
How dare you?
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*Disclaimer: It’s merely my opinion
How dare you?
What is an “op-onion?”
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I think what some are getting at is that Luke as a macguffin feels tacked on compared to something like Spock in The Search For Spock. We get the map to get the ball rolling, but SKB takes over the show as the new macguffin halfway through the movie without being set up beforehand. It came across to me as somewhat arbitrary, and didn’t feel like an organic part of the story.
Not sure whether introducing it earlier would help, or tying it more closely into the Luke thread.
SKB is the thing that stuck in my craw the longest coming out of TFA.
Then again, I remember that the Search For Spock also had a tacked on, rehashed doomsday device, didn’t it.
Fascinating.
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Unrelated: If we are talking about the novelizations as books without respect to anything else, just them in isolation, I’d say ROTS was far better than TFA.
I like the broad story, but the whole PT was brought about with compounding bad decisions.
For me, my edits are the definitive PT. And the novelizations are sort of an expanded version, so I can still have all the extra and different stuff to consider, as a separate incarnation of the story. Sort of like the book vs. movie if relationship of the Space Odyssey series.
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Then again, I remember that the Search For Spock also had a tacked on, rehashed doomsday device, didn’t it.
Genesis? I wouldn’t really say it was ‘tacked on, and rehashed’. The film literally happens directly after ST II, and it fits into the story quite well.
This is off topic, though. Sorry 😄.
Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.
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Why would we talk about books in a film thread? Go start a book ranking thread.
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Unrelated: If we are talking about the novelizations as books without respect to anything else, just them in isolation, I’d say ROTS was far better than TFA.
I like the broad story, but the whole PT was brought about with compounding bad decisions.
Honestly, ROTS is my favorite of all the adaptations (though I haven’t read the TFA one yet). In fact, ROTS the novel is my favorite SW book in general.
As Frink says though we are talking about the movies. The beauty of the original Star Wars was that it was a story most effectively told through cinema. TFA fits that bill as well.
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Why would we talk about books in a film thread? Go start a book ranking thread.
It’s Star Wars intersectionality. 😉
The Person in Question
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moviefreakedmind said:
Did it happen in TFA? Then it was bad.Ok this is unrelated but who is the chick in your avatar?
Thank you. Shit was killing me.
I liked to think that is MovieFreakedMind’s actual face. Thanks for ruining that illusion.
Not enough people read the EU.
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Disregard.
Hey Mickey you’re so fine
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moviefreakedmind said:
Did it happen in TFA? Then it was bad.Ok this is unrelated but who is the chick in your avatar?
Thank you. Shit was killing me.
I liked to think that is MovieFreakedMind’s actual face. Thanks for ruining that illusion.
Trust me, I’m not that pretty.
The Person in Question
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Why would we talk about books in a film thread? Go start a book ranking thread.
It’s Star Wars intersectionality. 😉
Hot.
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“I grew up with the prequels and I don’t like TFA is better than them, so I’m gonna find every single tiny thing wrong and then dismiss it as garbage.”
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While ignoring fundamental and unforgivable flaws in the PT…
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I agree that the ending of TFA is weak. The film actually only ends with Finding Luke. We have no idea if he is going to train Rey, rejoin Leia, fight Kylo Ren, fight Snoke, or help in any way. The idea that Rey has gone to him for training is not implied in the film. Leia sends her there to bring him back so that is the only implied ending (which agrees with the opening crawl), but we aren’t certain if Rey will be able to bring him back or not. The movie ends with finding Luke. The Maltese Falcon didn’t end with finding the falcon, there was more to the story. There was more to the story in TFA, but the story cuts off. Typical of Abrams crappy endings.
But even so, that is not my biggest gripe with the film. Some find it a rehash or reboot of Ep 4. I don’t. I seem a few similar plot points (but then, ROTJ is a rehash of the the last half of Ep 4 in much closer ways), but the overall story is unique. My problem is with the story jumps that fail logic. So, the Falcon takes off from Jakku and escapes into space. Where are the other Tie Fighters. Why doesn’t the Star Destroyer pursue? Why doesn’t the Falcon go into hyperspace. How did Han just happen to be near Jakku to detect the Falcon. Basically from when the Falcon leaves Jakku until Han and Chewy board, the movie makes no sense. The Falcon would still be close enough to Jakku for Kylo Ren to sense his father like he does later. And then you have Starkiller base. That weapon makes no sense. If Takodana is in the Hosnian system, then they would be able to see the weapon destroy the other planets, but the story implies it is a different system and fails to name it or why destroying it will destroy the entire New Republic Navy. We have a Galactic scale government that can be wiped out with the destruction of a single system? And the Navy has no other bases and ships? Seriously. You call that story telling? It is one of the stupidest segments in all of Star Wars. And then you have a small planet suck up an entire star? Where did it put it? Physics doesn’t work that way. Not unless you have something dimensionally transcendental like the TARDIS. Add to that the letdown ending, the over saturated lighting, the lack of a sense of scale (the galaxy is a big place, but Abrams made it seem small), the wrong lightsaber sound effects, trying to cram too much into the story, and all its other problems, I just can’t give TFA a good rating compared to the other 6 films. I didn’t suck as bad as Abrams 2 Star Trek films, that is for sure, but while I enjoyed the characters and can’t wait to see more of them, the film left me dissatisfied in a way few movies do. None of the PT left me with this feeling and I have never seen holes of this magnitude in any of the other films.
That is why to me TFA ranks the lowest. It is 7 of 7.
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While ignoring fundamental and unforgivable flaws in the PT…
I find the flaws in TFA to be more unforgivable. But it is what I expected from Abrams. I briefly had hope with all the leaked story details, but some of them apparently went unused and the story suffered for it.
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I agree that the ending of TFA is weak. The film actually only ends with Finding Luke. We have no idea if he is going to train Rey, rejoin Leia, fight Kylo Ren, fight Snoke, or help in any way. The idea that Rey has gone to him for training is not implied in the film. Leia sends her there to bring him back so that is the only implied ending (which agrees with the opening crawl), but we aren’t certain if Rey will be able to bring him back or not. The movie ends with finding Luke. The Maltese Falcon didn’t end with finding the falcon, there was more to the story. There was more to the story in TFA, but the story cuts off. Typical of Abrams crappy endings.
But even so, that is not my biggest gripe with the film. Some find it a rehash or reboot of Ep 4. I don’t. I seem a few similar plot points (but then, ROTJ is a rehash of the the last half of Ep 4 in much closer ways), but the overall story is unique. My problem is with the story jumps that fail logic. So, the Falcon takes off from Jakku and escapes into space. Where are the other Tie Fighters. Why doesn’t the Star Destroyer pursue? Why doesn’t the Falcon go into hyperspace. How did Han just happen to be near Jakku to detect the Falcon. Basically from when the Falcon leaves Jakku until Han and Chewy board, the movie makes no sense. The Falcon would still be close enough to Jakku for Kylo Ren to sense his father like he does later. And then you have Starkiller base. That weapon makes no sense. If Takodana is in the Hosnian system, then they would be able to see the weapon destroy the other planets, but the story implies it is a different system and fails to name it or why destroying it will destroy the entire New Republic Navy. We have a Galactic scale government that can be wiped out with the destruction of a single system? And the Navy has no other bases and ships? Seriously. You call that story telling? It is one of the stupidest segments in all of Star Wars. And then you have a small planet suck up an entire star? Where did it put it? Physics doesn’t work that way. Not unless you have something dimensionally transcendental like the TARDIS. Add to that the letdown ending, the over saturated lighting, the lack of a sense of scale (the galaxy is a big place, but Abrams made it seem small), the wrong lightsaber sound effects, trying to cram too much into the story, and all its other problems, I just can’t give TFA a good rating compared to the other 6 films. I didn’t suck as bad as Abrams 2 Star Trek films, that is for sure, but while I enjoyed the characters and can’t wait to see more of them, the film left me dissatisfied in a way few movies do. None of the PT left me with this feeling and I have never seen holes of this magnitude in any of the other films.
That is why to me TFA ranks the lowest. It is 7 of 7.
I’m not reading that. Even if I would agree with something in there, I’m not giving myself the chance.
Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.
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There’s hope for you yet!
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yotsuya said:
I find the flaws in TFA to be more unforgivable. But it is what I expected from Abrams. I briefly had hope with all the leaked story details, but some of them apparently went unused and the story suffered for it.
The only fundamental flaws with TFA are that we don’t know the state of the Galaxy the way we should and that it was a soft remake of SW. As a film it got many things right that no PT movie could. Characters we care about, dialogue that doesn’t sound like it was written by a 9 year old, good action, good pacing, great special effects etc.
I mean the PT couldn’t even get characters right even when the blueprint for Anakin’s character way layed out in SW and ROTJ. A Star Wars film with shit characters isn’t even worth watching nor is it worth considering over a Star Wars film that does have good characters. You don’t even need to factor in the fact that TFA is just an overall better crafted film than the entire PT.
We have no idea if he is going to train Rey, rejoin Leia, fight Kylo Ren, fight Snoke, or help in any way.
For one don’t say “we” because it’s common sense that this is going to happen because the plot wouldn’t progress much or at all if Luke refused. It may take some convincing like in ESB or TPM but it’s going to happen.
I’m not reading the rest of that though
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The most important thing to me in a movie, episode, or book is that the story make sense on the most basic level. TFA fails that in several ways. Things like that ruin a story for me. The rest may be well done, but the gaffs destroy any credibility TFA has in any ranking. The basic story sucks so the film sucks. That is the end of the story for me. I can deal with less than perfect characters and dialog if the story they tell is solid underneath. If the story isn’t solid I can’t enjoy it.
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The plot of TFA while not the greatest was executed far better than any film in the PT. ROTS in concept has a better plot but everything was so half assed and disjointed that it doesn’t even matter. The plots for AOTC and TPM are just boring and suffers from the shoddy execution far more than ROTS does.
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The most important thing to me in a movie, episode, or book is that the story make sense on the most basic level. TFA fails that in several ways. Things like that ruin a story for me. The rest may be well done, but the gaffs destroy any credibility TFA has in any ranking. The basic story sucks so the film sucks. That is the end of the story for me. I can deal with less than perfect characters and dialog if the story they tell is solid underneath. If the story isn’t solid I can’t enjoy it.
The Room is a story about a great guy whose girl is cheating on him. So…