How was the GOUT advertised back in 2006? Was it advertised as being the theatrical version of the films or the 2004 films with the theatrical versions taking the back seat? I don't recall seeing any advertising for it. I only discovered its release by going online and reading about it. If I had only saw them in the store at glance, I would have assumed they were the SE being sold individually and, in a way, that was the case.
unamochilla2 said:
How was the GOUT advertised back in 2006? Was it advertised as being the theatrical version of the films or the 2004 films with the theatrical versions taking the back seat?
I don't know about everywhere else, but around here (Pacific Northwest, USA) it was advertised as having the theatrical versions, period. You wouldn't necessarily even know it also had the Special Editions included, which added, I believe, to the shock and disappointment people felt when the "theatrical versions" turned out to be lackluster bonus material rather than the main feature.
That said, I think that's due to the marketing people not necessarily getting the memo that the theatrical versions were to be treated like something you found on the bottom or your shoe. They saw something truly unique and marketable about this particular release of the Special Editions, and they marketed the hell out of that aspect, to the degree that you'd be forgiven for thinking there was nothing else in the release.
Personally I expect something like a Bluray version of the 2006 set, 1 disc with the 2011 cut and 1 disc with the theatrical cut for every movie
RicOlie_2 said:
I'm afraid I have to agree with Imperialscum. The average person doesn't even know about the SE, never mind care about the controversy. Maybe it's more well known in some regions, but where I'm from (and where I live now--thought that doesn't really count), Star Wars isn't really that big. You may get the impression that a lot of people know about this by hanging out with other Star Wars fans and movie-lovers, but the average Joe or Jane on the street won't have a clue about all this. Even movie-lovers aren't much in the know unless they are Star Wars fans.
It's not a matter of what the average person thinks (most people don't remember the prequels and those that do think that "Sith" is Palpatine's race and call Anakin "Luke"), but rather it's a matter of if there are enought fans to make a difference in the sales and whether or not the average person has any desire to re-buy the blu-rays.
imperialscum said:
Fang Zei said:
There's no way to market yet another version of the SE (without the OOT) that will get people to flock to the stores.
I think people on OT.com hugely misjudge the OOT's relevance to an average fan. There has been a very few of us who refused to buy Blu-Ray on the principle of having unwanted changes.
If they release another set with something "extra", I think fans will buy it just as they did 2004 and 2011 release.
Well they recently re-released the blu-rays and also a DVD set of the newest versions, and they didn't sell too well at all. Our Local HMV sold 1 copy of the DVD set since it was released months ago. Even the blu-ray set isn't selling. The only way they are going to sell any more sets in the quantities they would be looking for is to release the OUT, restored on Blu-Ray. You actually underestimate the OUT's relevance to your average fan. You only have to look around the net when the blu-ray set was released to see just how huge a demand for the OUT is.
darklordoftech said:
RicOlie_2 said:
...The average person doesn't even know about the SE, never mind care about the controversy...
It's not a matter of what the average person thinks (most people don't remember the prequels and those that do think that "Sith" is Palpatine's race and call Anakin "Luke"), but rather it's a matter of if there are enought fans to make a difference in the sales and whether or not the average person has any desire to re-buy the blu-rays.
I have to agree with RicOlie_2 and others on this. As far as fans of the OOT go, there may be quite a few of them today, but there's fewer every year. By the time Disney gets around to even considering an OOT Blu-ray release, the math behind such an undertaking may not actually add up (even if it does today), and the only thing tipping the balance in favor of an OOT release is treating historically important films with respect, which Disney hasn't thus far indicated is much of a factor to them. I'd put the odds at less than 50/50 now and dropping every year it continues to not happen (until the copyrights expire and then the odds suddenly jump to 100%, assuming the sun hasn't gone nova by then).
I should note that I'm a pessimist by nature and I am occasionally pleasantly surprised. However, if I thought there were decent odds on a respectful Star Wars release within my lifetime, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing, so there's a benefit in pessimism.
Also, the odds vary depending on what you'd call an OOT release. The odds are best on a release with the 1993 audio, and 1981 crawl, so even under my most pollyanna happy daydreams, we still need to hold onto those Laserdisc audio rips and 1977 crawl/flyovers for reconstructions.
moviefreakedmind said:
imperialscum said:
Fang Zei said:
There's no way to market yet another version of the SE (without the OOT) that will get people to flock to the stores.
I think people on OT.com hugely misjudge the OOT's relevance to an average fan. There has been a very few of us who refused to buy Blu-Ray on the principle of having unwanted changes.
If they release another set with something "extra", I think fans will buy it just as they did 2004 and 2011 release.
I actually disagree with that. A lot of people (whether they care or not) are well aware of the Han Shot First thing; the SE is easily the most controversial alternate version of a film, except for maybe the colorized version of It's a Wonderful Life. The biggest complaint about the blu rays was the fact that it did not include the original versions, and that was mentioned in articles from a lot of news sources in their articles discussing the blu rays. Look at how much hype these rumors got over the summer about the OUT too.
To add to this. I've been told directly and have overheard others say that they either horde their VHS copies, are trying to find VHS copies or are trying to transfer their VHS copies to DVD. None of these people were big fans like us either.
CatBus said:
...and the only thing tipping the balance in favor of an OOT release is treating historically important films with respect, which Disney hasn't thus far indicated is much of a factor to them.
That's with their own properties, though, and even when they change them, it's mostly the same thing. There are no dramatic story differences of added effects, just digital color and animation. I see no reason for them to restore Star Wars in the same way, since it would be more expensive than just doing an IP scan and a conservative dash of DNR.
Tobar said:
moviefreakedmind said:
imperialscum said:
Fang Zei said:
There's no way to market yet another version of the SE (without the OOT) that will get people to flock to the stores.
I think people on OT.com hugely misjudge the OOT's relevance to an average fan. There has been a very few of us who refused to buy Blu-Ray on the principle of having unwanted changes.
If they release another set with something "extra", I think fans will buy it just as they did 2004 and 2011 release.
I actually disagree with that. A lot of people (whether they care or not) are well aware of the Han Shot First thing; the SE is easily the most controversial alternate version of a film, except for maybe the colorized version of It's a Wonderful Life. The biggest complaint about the blu rays was the fact that it did not include the original versions, and that was mentioned in articles from a lot of news sources in their articles discussing the blu rays. Look at how much hype these rumors got over the summer about the OUT too.
To add to this. I've been told directly and have overheard others say that they either horde their VHS copies, are trying to find VHS copies or are trying to transfer their VHS copies to DVD. None of these people were big fans like us either.
To further add to this, the video rental place across the street from where I live has multiple copies of each OT VHS as well as a few 2006 DVDs, and I didn't see the blu-ray version at all.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Wazzles said:
CatBus said:
...and the only thing tipping the balance in favor of an OOT release is treating historically important films with respect, which Disney hasn't thus far indicated is much of a factor to them.
That's with their own properties, though, and even when they change them, it's mostly the same thing. There are no dramatic story differences of added effects, just digital color and animation. I see no reason for them to restore Star Wars in the same way, since it would be more expensive than just doing an IP scan and a conservative dash of DNR.
Oh, I agree they won't add further changes on the scale of what Lucas has done, because if nothing else there's no ego to feed. But the fact is, they can get a Special Edition Blu-ray for a lot cheaper than they can get an OOT Blu-ray. If the people in charge don't give a damn about film history, they ALREADY have "Star Wars" HD masters, no new scans needed. They can milk that 2011 release via streaming/broadcast licensing indefinitely at no additional cost (I think they recognize that further physical media releases are not really going to go very far, but they probably attribute that to "our brave new streaming world" and not "our version of Star Wars blows"). To them, these 2011 films are Star Wars. Why re-scan what you already have?
CatBus said: they ALREADY have "Star Wars" HD masters, no new scans needed. They can milk that 2011 release via streaming/broadcast licensing indefinitely at no additional cost (I think they recognize that further physical media releases are not really going to go very far, but they probably attribute that to "our brave new streaming world" and not "our version of Star Wars blows"). To them, these 2011 films are Star Wars. Why re-scan what you already have?
Are you aware that they already rescanned in 4K?
darklordoftech said:
CatBus said: they ALREADY have "Star Wars" HD masters, no new scans needed. They can milk that 2011 release via streaming/broadcast licensing indefinitely at no additional cost (I think they recognize that further physical media releases are not really going to go very far, but they probably attribute that to "our brave new streaming world" and not "our version of Star Wars blows"). To them, these 2011 films are Star Wars. Why re-scan what you already have?
Are you aware that they already rescanned in 4K?
AFAICT that was already in the pipe before Disney came along. Disney has done nothing, and could very well do nothing with that scan too. But you're right--they could pay to keep that project going since it's partly done, and then they'd have a 4K SE master for relatively cheap, which I don't think is very helpful in the whole OOT release department, but maybe it's give us some better raw materials for restorations. Small favors I suppose.
CatBus said:
darklordoftech said:
CatBus said: they ALREADY have "Star Wars" HD masters, no new scans needed. They can milk that 2011 release via streaming/broadcast licensing indefinitely at no additional cost (I think they recognize that further physical media releases are not really going to go very far, but they probably attribute that to "our brave new streaming world" and not "our version of Star Wars blows"). To them, these 2011 films are Star Wars. Why re-scan what you already have?
Are you aware that they already rescanned in 4K?
AFAICT that was already in the pipe before Disney came along. Disney has done nothing, and could very well do nothing with that scan too.
Disney could have cancelled it at any time if they wanted to. Corporations don't spend money on absolutely nothing, hence Disney didn't cancel the scans and will do something with the scans, OOT or no OOT.
Edited my post while you were posting. You're probably right, we'll get a 4K SE release, so we can have just a little insult with our injury. Doesn't figure into an OOT release at all, although it would maybe be a better source for our restorations.
I thought the SE (at least the 2004 SE master) was stuck at 2K?
Not releasing the OOT after all the overtures they've been making to the "old school" fans would be a slap in the face, and generate bad press.
There's more awareness of the issue now than when Lucas could evade the question, or have his spin doctors brush it off.
Where were you in '77?
unamochilla2 said:
I thought the SE (at least the 2004 SE master) was stuck at 2K?
Unless it was redone before Disney bought LFL.
SilverWook said:
Not releasing the OOT after all the overtures they've been making to the "old school" fans would be a slap in the face, and generate bad press.
There's more awareness of the issue now than when Lucas could evade the question, or have his spin doctors brush it off.
Plus there'd be a perception that TFA is no better than TPM if the OOT isn't released.
unamochilla2 said:
I thought the SE (at least the 2004 SE master) was stuck at 2K?
The version that exists is, but they made a 4K scan of the negatives a few years ago, which exist as the 97 SE. Some of the changes in the 2004 and 2011 are stuck at that resolution, though (new emperor scene, Hayden force ghost).
Wazzles said:
unamochilla2 said:
I thought the SE (at least the 2004 SE master) was stuck at 2K?
The version that exists is, but they made a 4K scan of the negatives a few years ago, which exist as the 97 SE. Some of the changes in the 2004 and 2011 are stuck at that resolution, though (new emperor scene, Hayden force ghost).
Hayden is stuck at 2k? Wooohooooooo!!!!!!
The average fan is completely aware of the changes, and would buy the OOT in a heartbeat. The average person does not care, but unlike what TFN people would have you believe, not one person outside of that website dislikes the OUT, even if they for some reason prefer the SE. Like I said, is there really that huge of a market for the Lawrence of Arabia restoration, or the Batman series, or 4K Texas Chainsaw Massacre? If there's incentive to release the Batman TV show, then there is a market for the OUT, especially if they just put a modicum of advertising behind it. I didn't even know the GOUT existed until after 2010, although even if I did I wouldn't have bought it because it was a horrible quality release and no better than my old tapes/laserdiscs.
What I'm saying is you could make the argument that there isn't a market for almost anything.
The Person in Question
It doesn't really matter anyway what the average person knows or cares about the versions, in the world of home video/blu-ray, where they're happy to move 20,000 copies of an 80s movie, the original versions of Star Wars would be huge.
darklordoftech said:
Wazzles said:
unamochilla2 said:
I thought the SE (at least the 2004 SE master) was stuck at 2K?
The version that exists is, but they made a 4K scan of the negatives a few years ago, which exist as the 97 SE. Some of the changes in the 2004 and 2011 are stuck at that resolution, though (new emperor scene, Hayden force ghost).
Hayden is stuck at 2k? Wooohooooooo!!!!!!
Yup! The footage there is a screen test for RotS- filmed on one of the 2k (or 1080p?) cameras used to film that movie.
Wazzles said: 2k (or 1080p?) cameras used to film that movie.
AOTC and ROTS were filmed on 1080p cameras. The special effects for all the SEs and prequels were rendered in 2K.
darklordoftech said:
Wazzles said: 2k (or 1080p?) cameras used to film that movie.
AOTC and ROTS were filmed on 1080p cameras. The special effects for all the SEs and prequels were rendered in 2K.
That is super short-sighted.
Since it's all going to 4K by next year, I wonder how they will handle AOTC and ROTS since they're stuck at 1080 and 2K, and with the other films in 4K. Unless if they render all the effects in 4K and upscale the live action footage.