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Preserving "French" Original Trilogy - ANH V1.0 released - ESB in progress — Page 5

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Thanks _,,,^..^,,,_

I too have the pyramide LD box. For me it's the same as the first gold LD release that I scanned. Do you think it's different ?

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marvins said:

I too have the pyramide LD box. For me it's the same as the first gold LD release that I scanned. Do you think it's different ?

Not 100%, but if about half of the scenes are pinkish, video quality is lacking, burn marks are present at scene change, and a lot of drop-outs, dirt and other annoying little obstrusive objects are floating around the screen for the whole movie, I think that they share the same master...

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com

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The master used for the Gold Edition and the Pyramid Edition is the same.

The only difference is that the Pyramid has a better pressing (less video noise and drops.)

This master is a shame indeed, the TVrip is much brighter than the LD...... and the colors are more natural too...

The only advantage on the Gold and Pyramid Edition is the audio which is better than the THX audio.

“English, motherf***er! Do you speak it!?”

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ilovewaterslides said:

This master is a shame indeed, the TVrip is much brighter than the LD...... and the colors are more natural too...

I find many LDs to be darkish and under-saturated.

Is it possible that companies were trying to compensate for the average overly-bright red-shifted CRTs of the time?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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ilovewaterslides said:

The master used for the Gold Edition and the Pyramid Edition is the same.

The only difference is that the Pyramid has a better pressing (less video noise and drops.)

Less video noise and drops?!? I can't imagine how low the quality of the Gold Edition would be, though...

The only advantage on the Gold and Pyramid Edition is the audio which is better than the THX audio.

Can you explain the differences? Are the differences subtle, or substantial? Should I use pyramid's soundtrack instead THX's for my OUT project?

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com

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Yesterday, I checked the french audio of the OUT vs GOUT. The OUT audiotrack has absolutely no dynamic and the voices are too low.

I don't know if thats come from how you capture the audio or if thats so in the THX pressing, but there is someting wrong with this soundtrack. I will check my THX LD in order to see if the sound is better. But I don't will have time to do this tonight.

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marvins said:

Yesterday, I checked the french audio of the OUT vs GOUT. The OUT audiotrack has absolutely no dynamic and the voices are too low.

I don't know if thats come from how you capture the audio or if thats so in the THX pressing, but there is someting wrong with this soundtrack.

I captured all the laserdisc soundtracks, including the french one, via the digital optical out of the laserdisc player to the optical in of my PC, bit-for-bit perfect; so maybe the volume onto the laserdisc french soundtrack was set too low, or the GOUT DVD has risen a bit - don't know about the dynamic issue...

But, at the end, [ruLes] means "restored using Laserdisc editions", so I will not use the GOUT soundtracks anyway... BUT I could use the pyramid soundtrack, if it's better than the THX LD I used!

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com

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marvins said:

Yesterday, I checked the french audio of the OUT vs GOUT. The OUT audiotrack has absolutely no dynamic and the voices are too low.

I don't know if thats come from how you capture the audio or if thats so in the THX pressing, but there is someting wrong with this soundtrack. I will check my THX LD in order to see if the sound is better. But I don't will have time to do this tonight.

It doesn't have anything to do with his capture, i have the same problem on my LDs. It's due to the pressing or the master i'm not sure but the THX audio truely sucks.

 

@Andrea:  You should use the Pyramid audio for your OUT_rules preservation, it sounds way better than the THX audio. Like marvins said, the voices are too low compared to the other sounds plus it seems that they used an auto gain compressor which destroys the dynamic of the mix.

“English, motherf***er! Do you speak it!?”

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marvins said:

The OUT audiotrack has absolutely no dynamic and the voices are too low.

It’s easy to see here. At the top the THX audiotrack from the OUT, at the bottom the audiotrack from the GOUT DVD.

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I just see more bass content/saturation in the top one.

EDIT: wait, we're saying the same thing, aren't we?

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Yes Leonardo, we are saying almost the same thing.

Here is a comparaison between the GOUT and the GOLD LD pressing.

It looks much better :

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Thanks marvins, now I'm going to release OUT 2.0 with Pyramid french soundtrack instead THX!

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com

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marvins said:

- 'Une production Lucasfilm Limited' is too big and the timing is not perfect.

- 'Il y a bien longtemps...' looks good but the timing is not perfect

- Your crawl begin 1 frame too early. The speed of the crawl is a bit too high.

After finally looking at this again, I have a few remarks about these:

Logo placement isn't a problem, although when I move the French opening clip (with the Star Destroyer flying overhead) to the same exact position as Harmy's video track, the Fox logo is shifted way to the left. Since I'll be using Harmy's Fox logo, its position in relation to the title cards will be different from the French home video versions.

So the question here is, should I properly center the title cards, or leave them (noticably) off center to the right?

The opening logo doesn't start a frame too early in my version, since I've timed it to the english opening logo, and when I do that, the rest of the film lines up as well. If I make the logo appear one frame earlier, the rest of the film plays one frame earlier as well, and we obviously wouldn't want that. I guess the French opening logo sequence (from Fox logo to before the LGdÉ logo) is simply one frame shorter than the English one, but since we're timing this to the GOUT (audio and picture-wise), the English timing will be the way to go.

The crawl isn't moving too fast, but it's scaled incorrectly instead. The "La Guerre des Étoiles" logo is squashed vertically, so I should squash my logo and crawl as well. I'll fix that.

Colorwise I think I'll just use Harmy's colors for the Lucasfilm and "A long time ago" cards, since those greens and blues look different in each transfer.

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Laserschwert said:

Logo placement isn't a problem, although when I move the French opening clip (with the Star Destroyer flying overhead) to the same exact position as Harmy's video track, the Fox logo is shifted way to the left. Since I'll be using Harmy's Fox logo, its position in relation to the title cards will be different from the French home video versions.

So the question here is, should I properly center the title cards, or leave them (noticably) off center to the right?

 

I would say the title should be centered so that it looks like in the french video release.

 

The opening logo doesn't start a frame too early in my version, since I've timed it to the english opening logo, and when I do that, the rest of the film lines up as well. If I make the logo appear one frame earlier, the rest of the film plays one frame earlier as well, and we obviously wouldn't want that. I guess the French opening logo sequence (from Fox logo to before the LGdÉ logo) is simply one frame shorter than the English one, but since we're timing this to the GOUT (audio and picture-wise), the English timing will be the way to go.

Alright, I agree.

The crawl isn't moving too fast, but it's scaled incorrectly instead. The "La Guerre des Étoiles" logo is squashed vertically, so I should squash my logo and crawl as well. I'll fix that.

That's good news, thank you :)

Colorwise I think I'll just use Harmy's colors for the Lucasfilm and "A long time ago" cards, since those greens and blues look different in each transfer.

Are these colors different as the colors you use in your first test ? Because, for me, your colors was very good.

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marvins said:


Are these colors different as the colors you use in your first test ? Because, for me, your colors was very good.

Yes, Harmy's colors are slightly more saturated. But we shouldn't forget that he got an actual film source as color reference, whereas we only have analogue transfers (VHS and LD) for the international versions. So I'd say his colors are probably the real deal.

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Laserschwert said:

Yes, Harmy's colors are slightly more saturated. But we shouldn't forget that he got an actual film source as color reference, whereas we only have analogue transfers (VHS and LD) for the international versions. So I'd say his colors are probably the real deal.

That's sure for the original version. But for the international versions, who knows ? For me the text "il y a bien longtemps" was always in light blue.

Anyway a choice must be done and because you friendly make the french crawl you can chose the colors you find the best.

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In that case I'll choose pink and red/green checkered. Thanks :)

EDIT

@marvins: I've sent you the link to the French intro via PM (Vimeo locked my account). If anyone else wants the video, shoot me a PM.

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Laserschwert said:

In that case I'll choose pink and red/green checkered. Thanks :)

 

I couldn't choose better colors !!

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AntcuFaalb said:

ilovewaterslides said:

This master is a shame indeed, the TVrip is much brighter than the LD...... and the colors are more natural too...

I find many LDs to be darkish and under-saturated.

Is it possible that companies were trying to compensate for the average overly-bright red-shifted CRTs of the time?

That's a possibility. Some of my LDs look the same indeed. But for SW, it's much darker, i mean on the crawl at the beginning there is litteraly no star it's pretty lame...

“English, motherf***er! Do you speak it!?”

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Laserschwert said:

I've sent you the link to the French intro via PM (Vimeo locked my account). If anyone else wants the video, shoot me a PM.

I looked at your video. It's very, very nice :)

You have done a great work, thank you very much.

Could you just redo the crawl to change "pourrant" to "pourront". It's a typo in the original crawl and I don't think it is necessary to maintain it. The "Il y a bien longtemps..." seems a bit darker to me like I previous said but It's not really a problem.

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I think you should keep the typo to reflect the original theatrical release.

Same in end credits, as Skywalker appears as "Courleciel".

My 2 cents...

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I agree for "Courleciel" as that is a choice and not a typo.

But "pourrant" it's just an ugly typo in the crawl and there are no reason for me to maintain it, even for preservation.

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atomic66 said:

I think you should keep the typo to reflect the original theatrical release.

Same in end credits, as Skywalker appears as "Courleciel".

My 2 cents...

We still don't know if it is the theatrical intro or if they made another intro for the video release.

It's quite strange that all the European releases on VHS and LDs use the same font for the Lucasfilm logo and the "A long time ago..." Also, the SW logo freezes the same way in every European version too. 

I'm pretty sure the 35mm intro is not the same as this one.

“English, motherf***er! Do you speak it!?”

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Well, the international crawls were made by ILM (and presumably the title cards as well, hence the same fonts), and the German crawl for Empire (which is definitely the 35mm version, as I have it in HD) has a typo as well. I doubt anybody created new optically composed crawls for any of the home video releases. Thus I'm sure the French crawl is the theatrical one.

I can fix the typo if you want to, but I for my part will preserve the typo in Empire's German crawl.

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If I had the opportunity to have the original french crawl in HD I would let the typo. But here were talking about a re-creation.

And for example in the German preservation for the Greedo sequence, are you sure you are using subtitles font and text that were in the movie when it was release ? I have talked with people that have seen the movie in 77 and they are saying that they were no subtitles on the Greedo sequence. Maybe it was the same with the German release.

It's a hard question and it's not easy to find the good answer.