Preserving DTS LaserDisc tracks, specifically Jurassic Park — Page 3

ElDonante said:

NeonBible said:

Ok I managed to get it working.  Since I do not have a BD drive I had to get the movie from 'elsewhere'.  My first video file had messed up FPS setting which is why it was failing with tsmuxer.  I found another one which reported it correctly as 23.976fps.

Once question, when I view the codec info in VLC, is it supposed to report the track as DTS-HD MA? It simply says DTS audio on mine.  I didn't check box marked 'downconvert to DTS'.

You'd have to have the proper CODECs installed to decode the DTS-HD MA audio, my understanding is if the transport cannot handle DTS-HD MA, it will default to decoding the DTS core (lossy) stream that's contained within the DTS-HD MA track.  In that case, you're still hearing the original mix, it's just not lossless.

If anyone notices any discrepancies with sync and the DTS-HD MA track, please update the thread.  I was only able to test using 5.1 PCM because I only have access to free and open source tools.  I'm confident that the DTS-HD MA track that borisanddoris was able to encode is identical, but I won't be able to test it out until I finish the download and perform the same steps you all are taking ;)

Thanks.  Thats very interesting to know.  I did not realise it contains lossy DTS core in side of it.  I dragged the resulting .m2ts file back into tsmuxer and confirmed it is still a DTS-HD MA track.

And relating to that, I don't actually have a 5.1 system.  I simply have a BD player connected to my TV via HDMI.  So if I watch a BD with a DTS-HD or TrueHD track, what happens to the sound? Do I get a lossless (albeit downmixed to stereo) or a lossy signal?

It all depends on how you have your BD player setup.  If you set the player to bitstream, then you'll send the DTS-HD MA signal to the TV for the TV to do the decoding.  If it can handle decoding it, you'll hear a downmixed lossless version.  If it can only handle decoding DTS, then you'll hear downmixed lossy.  If neither, then you'll probably get no sound.  In that event, you can have the BD player handle the decoding and output to a variety of formats which would include PCM stereo and PCM surround.

One thing's for sure, you'll need to ensure that you aren't using dynamic range compression.

To get the best experience, you'll want to use a nice surround sound system with speakers that match the room acoustics.  My personal choice is a mix of horn loaded Klipsch and Bic America speakers driven by a Denon receiver.  (Yeah, yeah, timbre matching is best, but when I like what I like, then that's what I go with :P )

ElDonante said:

Jetrell Fo said:

Okay, since I don't have a Bluray drive on my pc, could I use my Japan Superbit DVD to sync up this audio and how would I do it properly?  I really want to give this DTS soundtrack a spin.

 

It would require some work, but you'd be able to do it.  You wouldn't be left with a Superbit quality video, though.  You'd have to do somewhat of an inverse telecine, get that framerate down to 23.976fps, then you'd have to make cuts to the audio or video to make sure they're the same length.  Your final project would have to be output as an HD compliant stream to utilize the DTS-HD MA track, as DVD spec doesn't allow for DTS-HD MA.

Alternatively, you could extract the core DTS track from the DTS-HD MA file and use that to create a DVD version with the original theatrical mix.

Another alternative to creating a DVD version retaining the video quality of the Superbit DVD would be to: 1) extract the core DTS track, 2) use eac3to to convert the audio framerate from 23.976 to 29.976, 3) make edits to the audio track to match the video, 4) multiplex the audio track with the Superbit video track.

What about if I just want to to do this on my HD so I can watch it from there?  Will I still have to convert the video to 23.976fps to synch up the audio with it? 

Jetrell Fo said:

What about if I just want to to do this on my HD so I can watch it from there?  Will I still have to convert the video to 23.976fps to synch up the audio with it? 

As long as the lengths and framerates of the audio and video match, you should be good to go.  You will likely want to use a container format, like MKV, to contain the streams, rather than trying to mux to a single MPEG2 muliplexed stream.

ElDonante said:

Jetrell Fo said:

What about if I just want to to do this on my HD so I can watch it from there?  Will I still have to convert the video to 23.976fps to synch up the audio with it? 

As long as the lengths and framerates of the audio and video match, you should be good to go.  You will likely want to use a container format, like MKV, to contain the streams, rather than trying to mux to a single MPEG2 muliplexed stream.

I will try this first I think.  I know my PC will play the MKV as will my BD player....my Surround Receiver also supports DTS. 

Finally got these as there were some corruption issues...here is a link I found some might find helpful for this.

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=967297&postcount=900

TsMuxer gave me this....

SmartLabs tsMuxeR. Version 1.10.6

Decoding DTS-HD stream (track 1): Bitrate: 1536Kbps core + MLP data.Sample Rate: 48KHz Channels: 5.1 (DTS Master Audio)

DTS-HD stream (track 1): bad frame detected at position02:06:36,373. Resync stream.

Demux complete.

Demuxing time: 1 min 39 sec

Any idea what the "bad frame" thing is about?

Here is some extra info for:

This software is designed to convert audio files between different formats using FFMPEG. It's in a beta stage... the possibilities of format convertions will be added "along the path". At this point you can convert (and resample) between MP3, AC3, MP2,WAV, WMA and AAC formats.

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/DAudioK

.............

I saw that TPM had a DTS 6 track mix as well but it wasn't included on the DVD due to budget.....and I can't say whether the BR of TPM is the same as the theater version but I'm guessing it isn't because GL edited the movie for the DVD release so a theatrical version wouldn't match up properly.

Okay....I've previewed this a bit and let me just say from what I've heard so far.....WOW....the DTS-HD audio freaking rocks.

:) 

borisanddoris said:

I'm hoping those that PM'd me have had success getting the track to work.  I'd love to hear some feedback.  Perhaps you can even note what sort of gear you're listening on.  

I'm listening on a Pioneer THX receiver, Klipsch speakers, and a JBL sub.  I made an AVCHD that runs off a USB hard drive connected to my Blu-ray player and have had it on virtual repeat this week.  I can't stop checking it out when I get bored with Netflix. :)

I suppose I'm making up for lost time eh?

I am simply amazed at the difference.  Hearing the dinosaurs alone with this is enough to get one spooked.  I've been hearing things all through this mix that make the movie far more intense than it ever was on DVD.  At the opening of the movie, when the group goes on the tour and the jeeps pass through the gate of the park...hearing the individual noises that accompany the metal gate lock, the other dinosaurs out in the park while the scenes are progressing, the T-Rex.....just awesome.

I'm listening on a Sony 5.1  ST-DG510 with OEM Sony speaker setup.  My personal opinion is that this mix blows all the others away.  It makes me far more excited for the prospect that those who own some of the SE DTS rom discs will allow a straight transfer for the fans like this one.....it really would do the SE some final justice....even if only as a piece of history that at least sounded fricking awesome, if nothing else.   

Since I don't have a huge amount of experience myself I just wanted to post a note for those looking to make MKV's......

I went with a 720p AVCHD version of Bluray for home viewing....

http://www.noblemd.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12&Itemid=13

I set the format of the 720p to 23.976 and I set the audio delay @ -140ms...this was of course for the DTSHD track.  I also set the language to English and set the flag to yes.  Let's MKverge run without error codes regarding this.  

I extracted the core DTS and I'm going to make an MKV using the exact same settings.  I hope this helps any of the amateurs out there such as myself.

Thanks to NeonBible for some suggestions....thanks to borisanddoris and ElDonante for the the source, the work and the share.

I am REALLY hoping that this project sparks "others" who may have these types of DTS cdroms to share so that we can have other movies to enjoy with such brilliant soundtracks.  I am loving Jurassic Park even more with this option....even the core DTS is a huge improvement over the R1/R2 DVD's AND the Bluray.

**Update** ....I finished the 720p AVCHD with the core DTS track....it runs smoothly as well.  I used the same settings in MKverge as I used for the DTSHD track. 

:)   :)

I can do that, but it'll be with The GIMP and It'll be a week or so before I can get to it.

I've got two ideas for it.  One is a standard BD cover, the other is a thick-photo paper folding jacket similar to a CD Single, but representative of a LaserDisc / vinyl jacket.

I do ;)

Plus I have the CAV, CLV, and DTS versions to work with, though there aren't many differences besides some text and logos here and there.

No days off till next Sunday, though, so unless I find the will, there won't be a way until them :(

If anyone else wants to do it, that's cool too... cause not only will I need the time, I'll also have to hope I'm in creativity mode at the same time in order to do it.

ElDonante said:

I do ;)

Plus I have the CAV, CLV, and DTS versions to work with, though there aren't many differences besides some text and logos here and there.

No days off till next Sunday, though, so unless I find the will, there won't be a way until them :(

If anyone else wants to do it, that's cool too... cause not only will I need the time, I'll also have to hope I'm in creativity mode at the same time in order to do it.

El, I have the R2 DVD Superbit ones, they are mostly white and would allow for some custom art to be added.  I would gladly scan and offer them to whomever might want to take this task on...I don't know that I'm well versed enough to come up with something unique.  

I just created an account to suggest something (sorry for the bad english):

There is a very easy (and dirt cheap) way to playback and record BITPERFECT via digital inputs with the cheapest soundcard imaginable. You just have to finde a card with a cmedia chip use the (freeware) c-media drivers:

http://code.google.com/p/cmediadrivers/

Read further:

http://code.google.com/p/cmediadrivers/wiki/Bitperfect

I think they already did, what we want (that is: to capture the unaltered PCM signal with no alteration at all [it appears to be random noise, but is - in fact - the DTS Bitstream] ). Click the link below, to see what they did to test if a card is bitperfect:

http://www.zen98696.zen.co.uk/Projects/CIM8738_Mods.html

They used this method: A simple test to confirm that a file is not being altered/resampled is to feed a DTS-encoded file such as this Swedish Radio DTS test file from the PC into a DTS-capable AV receiver.  Even small changes to the file will result in failure, with just noise being output.

To my understanding the DTS Output of the LD Player (Optical-Toslink or Coaxial, the AC-3 rf is another thing) would be exaclty like the "Swedish Radio DTS Test" file (PCM based).

You just would have to capture what comes out of the LD player and would have got the bitperfect stream form the LD!! In the graphic above, PC1 would be the LD Player, PC2 would be the capturing pc.

I would try it myself, I even own a bitperfect soundcard with optical i/o  (the DTS test works) and an LD Player (Pioneer CLD 515)... but the LD Player has no digital optical out and therefor i never got any DTS laserdisc...

I think this is very promising, or am i totally wrong? I hope it works!

Just burned this and had a quick listen  - fantastic!

Since I don't have a Blu-ray burner (just yet) I used a 720p rip and burned it to a DL DVD - luckily there were no problems marrying the video and audio files, but I had to drop the original DTS track to make room (a bit of a shame, since it would have been fun to do some A/B comparisons).

My kit isn't fancy at all, indeed my receiver (Yamaha RX-V365) isn't HD capable (despite the presence of HDMI). I'll upgrade one day, but for now the core DTS is impressive enough - a genuinely cinematic sound with tremendous atmosphere and punch.

Thanks to all involved - let's hope to see more projects like this (and if anyone in this discussion has any ideas on extracting the 5.1 AC-3 from the THX Alien laserdisc, please weigh in on the other thread!)

Jonno said:

Just burned this and had a quick listen  - fantastic!

Since I don't have a Blu-ray burner (just yet) I used a 720p rip and burned it to a DL DVD - luckily there were no problems marrying the video and audio files, but I had to drop the original DTS track to make room (a bit of a shame, since it would have been fun to do some A/B comparisons).

My kit isn't fancy at all, indeed my receiver (Yamaha RX-V365) isn't HD capable (despite the presence of HDMI). I'll upgrade one day, but for now the core DTS is impressive enough - a genuinely cinematic sound with tremendous atmosphere and punch.

Thanks to all involved - let's hope to see more projects like this (and if anyone in this discussion has any ideas on extracting the 5.1 AC-3 from the THX Alien laserdisc, please weigh in on the other thread!)

What I did was made 2 separate versions...using MKV as the container.  This made it easier to compare the 2.  BOTH are awesome.  I would like to think that "anyone" here that has some of these theater DTS CD-roms would now consider sharing them for other movies so folks have an alternative to the soundtracks already available.

This IS the way I like to watch this movie now.....

Hey gang. Would someone be so kind as to share this audio file so I can marry it to my blu ray video? Thanks!