logo Sign In

Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 328

This topic has been locked by a moderator.

Author
Time

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

One of the things I have found most disturbing, is comments left by Trump supporters regarding his ability to pardon. For example, at the end of one article, several commenters boasted gleefully that he will still “win” simply by pardoning his family members and others around him. Is it not a terrible state of affairs when so many allegedly law-and-order folks would revel in pardoning people for federal crimes? Can they not see the irony? Only 7 months in office and already talk of pardoning people.

He might be able to pardon his family, but if he gets impeached, he won’t be able to pardon his way out of that.

The whole Trump win and presidency has made me rethink whether our “system” is really as great as I thought it was. Maybe it took a couple hundred years, but I fear its fundamental flaws are finally being realized.

care to elaborate? What changes would you make to our system?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Farewell, you magnificent cotton tailed, hedge diving crazy man.

I hope SNL will give their version a proper send off.

Replacing him at this point will help about as much as rearranging these of course…

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

Warbler said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

One of the things I have found most disturbing, is comments left by Trump supporters regarding his ability to pardon. For example, at the end of one article, several commenters boasted gleefully that he will still “win” simply by pardoning his family members and others around him. Is it not a terrible state of affairs when so many allegedly law-and-order folks would revel in pardoning people for federal crimes? Can they not see the irony? Only 7 months in office and already talk of pardoning people.

He might be able to pardon his family, but if he gets impeached, he won’t be able to pardon his way out of that.

The whole Trump win and presidency has made me rethink whether our “system” is really as great as I thought it was. Maybe it took a couple hundred years, but I fear its fundamental flaws are finally being realized.

care to elaborate?

A system that leads to a crazed minority of voters installing a sociopath as president, with every other branch of government too afraid to challenge him, is clearly flawed. (yes I realize there is still the judicial branch, but that appears to be changing soon)

What changes would you make to our system?

If I’ve been this wrong for 50 years, it wouldn’t be logical for me to assume that I could possibly know the answer.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

Author
Time
 (Edited)

my opinion is that the electoral college needs changing*, and gerrymandering needs to be fixed.

*I would change from votes to points, the eliminate the faithless elector problem. Each state would get the number electoral points equal the number of electoral votes they get now. Points would be rewarded in each state by the percentage of the popular vote in the candidate wins in each state. Lets NJ has 20 electoral points. Lets say candidate X wins 50% of the popular vote in NJ. Candidate X would be awarded 10 electoral points from NJ.

Author
Time

Warbler said:

my opinion is that the electoral college needs changing, and gerrymandering needs to be fixed.

It’s a good start, but this assumes that the majority tends to be right, and while it is true that a minority in control of all the levers of power makes most of the country unhappy, it is also possible that this minority could be in the right. What worries me is that with the erosion of good journalism and education, a con man like Trump could easily get the majority of the votes in an election. If that happens a fair and democratic system would work against us.

I guess I’m saying that good journalism and healthy discourse is just as important as a fair and free voting process.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

Author
Time

Good journalism and healthy discourse are very important. More important than a free a fair voting process? Not sure. but I won’t argue it.

Yes the minority can be right and the majority wrong, but I still don’t think you want a minority of the people making all the decisions.

Author
Time

Oopsie doopsie.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/sessions-discussed-trump-campaign-related-matters-with-russian-ambassador-us-intelligence-intercepts-show/2017/07/21/3e704692-6e44-11e7-9c15-177740635e83_story.html?utm_term=.28d1b2817feb

Russia’s ambassador to Washington told his superiors in Moscow that he discussed campaign-related matters, including policy issues important to Moscow, with Jeff Sessions during the 2016 presidential race, contrary to public assertions by the embattled attorney general, according to current and former U.S. officials.

Ambassador Sergey Kislyak’s accounts of two conversations with Sessions — then a top foreign policy adviser to Republican candidate Donald Trump — were intercepted by U.S. spy agencies, which monitor the communications of senior Russian officials both in the United States and in Russia. Sessions initially failed to disclose his contacts with Kislyak and then said that the meetings were not about the Trump campaign.

One U.S. official said that Sessions — who testified that he has no recollection of an April encounter — has provided “misleading” statements that are “contradicted by other evidence.” A former official said that the intelligence indicates that Sessions and Kislyak had “substantive” discussions on matters including Trump’s positions on Russia-related issues and prospects for U.S.-Russia relations in a Trump administration.

Author
Time

Warbler said:

my opinion is that the electoral college needs changing*, and gerrymandering needs to be fixed.

*I would change from votes to points, the eliminate the faithless elector problem.

You were very much in favor of faithless electors a few months ago.

The Person in Question

Author
Time

I wonder if many of our problems stem from there being only 2 parties. If there were more, with proportional representation, there might be more incentive for compromise. However, I don’t see a path to that ever happening; there is no way any sitting politician would allow it.

Gerrymandering has become a big problem. Perhaps district lines should be the purview of the judicial branch?

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

Author
Time

moviefreakedmind said:

Warbler said:

my opinion is that the electoral college needs changing*, and gerrymandering needs to be fixed.

*I would change from votes to points, the eliminate the faithless elector problem.

You were very much in favor of faithless electors a few months ago.

that was an extreme situation.

Author
Time

The shady shit keeps on comin’.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kushner-failed-to-disclose-dozens-of-financial-holdings-new-document-shows/2017/07/21/1a11a566-6e35-11e7-96ab-5f38140b38cc_story.html?utm_term=.39e377d1da7f

Jared Kushner failed to disclose dozens of financial holdings that he was required to declare when he joined the White House as an adviser to President Trump, his father-in-law, according to a ­revised form released Friday.

A separate document released Friday also showed that Kushner’s wife, presidential daughter Ivanka Trump, had been paid as much as $5 million from her outside businesses over an 84-day span this spring around the time she entered the White House as a senior adviser and pledged to distance herself from her private holdings.

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

The shady shit keeps on comin’.

You said it, brother.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/20/politics/draft-kushner-visas/index.html

Jared Kushner’s status as a top aide to President Donald Trump was used to lure Chinese investors to his family’s New Jersey development, even after his family’s company apologized for mentioning his name during a sales pitch in May, CNN has found.

References to Kushner are part of online promotions by two businesses that are working with Kushner Companies to find Chinese investors willing to invest in the 1 Journal Square development in exchange for a US visa.

The promotions are posted in Chinese and refer to Kushner Companies as “real estate heavyweights,” going on to mention “the celebrity of the family is 30-something ‘Mr. Perfect’ Jared Kushner, who once served as CEO of Kushner Companies.”

One posted online in May by the company US Immigration Fund, a private business based in Florida, also contains a reference to Kushner’s appearance on the cover of December’s Forbes Magazine, under the headline “This guy got Trump elected.” The post was removed shortly after CNN contacted the company for comment.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

So this may not be news to anyone else, but it just occurred to me today.

Since the Civil Rights Act and the whole realignment of the Democratic and Republican parties in their current forms, the Republicans have always won the Presidency in spite of having fewer registered voters and less popular policies, except when the previous Republican administrations have thrown the nation into political/legal chaos (Carter), economic chaos (Obama), if a major third party spoiler candidate draws votes away from Republicans (Clinton), or if the previous Democratic administration was very popular (Clinton and Obama 2nd terms, and even explaining Gore and Clinton II’s popular wins).

So basically if Nixon never got caught, Bush II was a little smarter, and Perot never ran, I believe it would have been wall-to-wall Republicans from the moment Johnson left office (Johnson’s “We’ve lost the South for a generation” remark was correct in principle, but too conservative both numerically and geographically). Kinda depressing really. It means that the Democratic mantra of “high turnouts = Dem wins” actually means that Dems need a huge disaster to rally enough voters to win, and on the Republican side it doesn’t really matter if they run a guy who’s smart and qualified or a walking, talking shitstain, they’ll win if they can simply avoid these factors.

But it does speak well for the future, since Trump is not as good as hiding things as Nixon, is dumber than Bush II, and is sowing political/legal chaos like weeds, and may even steer the nation into economic chaos as well (it’s early in his term, after all, give him time). And if the Republicans manage to wrest control back to some pseudo-mainstream candidate like Pence or even Kasich, well, then a third party white supremacist option in the mold of Wallace/Trump could very well be in the mix.

Doesn’t do much for 2018 though. And it doesn’t take the Russian factor into account at all.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

Author
Time
 (Edited)

CatBus said:

So this may not be news to anyone else, but it just occurred to me today.

Since the Civil Rights Act and the whole realignment of the Democratic and Republican parties in their current forms, the Republicans have always won the Presidency in spite of having fewer registered voters and less popular policies, except when the previous Republican administrations have thrown the nation into political/legal chaos (Carter), economic chaos (Obama), if a major third party spoiler candidate draws votes away from Republicans (Clinton), or if the previous Democratic administration was very popular (Clinton and Obama 2nd terms, and even explaining Gore and Clinton II’s popular wins).

So basically if Nixon never got caught, Bush II was a little smarter, and Perot never ran, I believe it would have been wall-to-wall Republicans from the moment Johnson left office (Johnson’s “We’ve lost the South for a generation” remark was correct in principle, but too conservative both numerically and geographically). Kinda depressing really. It means that the Democratic mantra of “high turnouts = Dem wins” actually means that Dems need a huge disaster to rally enough voters to win.

But it does speak well for the future, since Trump is not as good as hiding things as Nixon, is dumber than Bush II, and is sowing political/legal chaos like weeds, and may even steer the nation into economic chaos as well (it’s early in his term, after all, give him time). And if the Republicans manage to wrest control back to some pseudo-mainstream candidate like Pence or even Kasich, well, then a third party white supremacist option in the mold of Wallace/Trump could very well be in the mix.

Doesn’t do much for 2018 though. And it doesn’t take the Russian factor into account at all.

With regards to Perot, there’s very little solid evidence that he cost Bush the election, so I dispute your point there.

With regards to the rest of your post, you could easily make the same arguments for why Republicans won in elections. Politics is cyclical. That cyclical nature does not work against one party or the other, it just works against whoever’s in power. This explains why midterms almost always favor the opposition party.

The simple fact is that people just don’t like the man currently in power, whether he’s red or blue.

Author
Time

Jesus Christ, Trump tweeted 10 times this morning about all sorts of crap. Winning!

Author
Time

Anybody else tired of winning?

Author
Time

yhwx said:

Anybody else tired of winning?

Trump predicted this:

“We’re going to win so much. You’re going to get tired of winning. you’re going to say, ‘Please Mr. President, I have a headache. Please, don’t win so much. This is getting terrible.’ And I’m going to say, ‘No, we have to make America great again.’ You’re gonna say, ‘Please.’ I said, ‘Nope, nope. We’re gonna keep winning.’

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/02/19/25-quotes-capturing-donald-trumps-final-pitch-to-south-carolina/?utm_term=.03a42d6e7a0e

Author
Time

Wait, did Trump force winning on South Carolina even though they used the “I have a headache” line?

I mean I know he doesn’t understand “no means no” but I never realized he sexually harassed an entire state.

Author
Time

TV’s Frink said:

SilverWook said:

TV’s Frink said:

I’ll bet Lindsay Lohan has some intelligent thoughts on the Trumps.

http://variety.com/2017/digital/news/donald-trump-lindsay-lohan-twitter-1202487482/

@LeahR77 @CNN THIS IS our president. Stop #bullying him & start trusting him. Thank you personally for supporting #THEUSA

@hrtablaze @realDonaldTrump @IvankaTrump @FLOTUS @DonaldJTrumpJr are kind people. As An American, why speak poorly of anyone? #FAITH #July4th

Lindsay Lohan? Even Robot Chicken has forgotten she’s still around.

Robot Chicken? Even Lindsay Lohan has forgotten that’s still around.

If it is.

The belated answer is yes.
https://youtu.be/kC8gkGGbMOk

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

Author
Time

That has to be an alternative fact.