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PAL + NTSC size query

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few questions out there for the people that have them.

PAL Star Wars DVD 2004 SE release.

what frame rate is it when ripped off the DVD? is it 25fps interlaced? 25fps non interlaced? or 24fps?

second, when you take away the black bars, what size is the footage in PAL format?

720x what?

I'm just starting to realise that it would be better to do a restoration exercise by getting the PAL DVD's (I'm region 2 so not a problem) to take advantage of the better PAL resolution, also, depending how it is stored on the DVd' I've either just got to deinterlace it and slow it down 4% to a 24fps frame rate, or maybe even do nothing at all depending on how it is stored on the DVD.

of course then comes the problemo f subbing in a few scenes when my original cut from the DE LD's is NTSC. depending on the size of the PAL footage, I might be able to do something which is why I'm asking thees questions.
When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

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SORRY to intrude but...

Even if the DVD's are PAL would they not still come from an NTSC source and if that is the case would it not be better just to use the NTSC version as you'd be using a NTSC to PAL conversion by using the PAL DVD's?

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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Rik, they aren't any NTSC-to-PAL job. nothing is anymore except where the original material is ntsc (tv series, etc). 720x432 progressive. I don't know how I tell if it's stored as "film" but I'm sure that's not too important. This page is good at showing the resolution advantage of PAL:

http://www.michaeldvd.com.au/Articles/PALvsNTSC/PALvsNTSC.asp
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Originally posted by: DanielB
I don't know how I tell if it's stored as "film" but I'm sure that's not too important.
"Progressive" flag in the MPEG stream is set; Bitrate Viewer will tell you.

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Hi,

the PAL DVDs are 25 fps progressive, size (minux black bars) is 720x432 pixels.


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Grisan
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@rikter.

if the PAL dvd was stored as 25fps progressive, then it only needs to be slowed down 4% to make it 24fps the same as my IVTC'd 24fps NTSC capture. the only difference then is vertical the size difference between my NTSC material and the PAL DVD material.

therefore, if I can jigger my NTSC source capture to the same vertical resolution as the PAL item without losing anything, then I can take advantage of the better PAL resolution.

as GRisan says it is 25fps progressive, it means I don't even have to do any deinterlacing all I have to do is shoot through virtualdub and make the frame rate 23.97fps instead of 25fps. cool.

@grisan,

could you mail me a few frames from the film please? mail it to lancer@dial.pipex.com so I can do some comparison stuff and see if I can jiggle my NTSC material to match at all? that would be great.

When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

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Originally posted by: Moth3r
Originally posted by: DanielB
I don't know how I tell if it's stored as "film" but I'm sure that's not too important.
"Progressive" flag in the MPEG stream is set; Bitrate Viewer will tell you.
Yes, but that doesn't mean it's "film" (24 fps). A good example of this is the movie Aliens. Because it was shot in 25fps and not 24fps the PAL DVD is not sped up, therefore while it is a progressive DVD it should be played at 25fps not 24fps.
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I don't know where you got that information from. Presumably then, Aliens played back 4% too slow in all theaters (which have 24 fps projectors)?

Actually my answer was probably confusing when you asked if it was stored as "film" - anything that was shot to film in the first place should be stored on a DVD as progressive, either at 23.976 fps for NTSC or 25 fps for PAL.

But NTSC framerate is actually 29.97 -- 23.976 fps is called "NTSC - film" and 3:2 pulldown is used to display at 29.97 fps. So you could say if the 3:2 pulldown flag is present, then the material is stored as "film".

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pardon my saying this danielb but I'd love to see some proof of that aliens statement.

there is no reason on earth whatsoever for James Cameron to shoot a film @25fps when all FX houses and film equipment at the professional film industry level is designed and set up for 24fps. plus cinemas don't show stuff at 25fps. besides, he hasn't shot any other films at 25fps.

When a woman says yes, she means no - when she says maybe, she means no.

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Originally posted by: tellan
pardon my saying this danielb but I'd love to see some proof of that aliens statement.

there is no reason on earth whatsoever for James Cameron to shoot a film @25fps when all FX houses and film equipment at the professional film industry level is designed and set up for 24fps. plus cinemas don't show stuff at 25fps. besides, he hasn't shot any other films at 25fps.
Well according to his commentary, he did shoot Aliens at 25fps to make better PAL transfers, which he (or maybe it was the technical guy on the commentary) describes as being "a better system than NTSC". And there's no reason a cinema can't show 25fps movies.