Original Intent

Author: TheBoost
Date: 8-Jun-2009, 8:49 PM

Author: TheBoost
Time: 8-Jun-2009 8:49 PM
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Lucas seems to justify alot with "That's the way it was supposed to be."

Usually I don't buy it, and I think the majority of us here are of the same mind.

BUT... what if tomorrow, ol' GL came out with some kind of undeniable proof from 1972 that the way the Star Wars Saga is now is precisely how he intended. Say, he has an old reel of film of him talking to Copola, and he lays out the six film plots, including Jar Jar, Han shooting first, Anakin building 3PO, Jabba in Episode 1, and everything exactly like it is now in the SE and the PT.

Would this change your opinion of anything?

Author: CO
Time: 8-Jun-2009 9:17 PM (Edited)
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If Lucas had in his notes back in the early 70's, "I will end Episode VI with Kenobi, Yoda, and an old Anakin, probably older looking then Kenobi. And then when I film the Prequels, I will change that person in Episode VI through computer technology(which isn't possible but probably will be in the future) and put in the actor who played Anakin in Episode II & III."

I will bow down and never bitch about the Special Editions ever again;)

Author: C3PX
Time: 8-Jun-2009 10:28 PM
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^ Seconded!

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

Author: Mielr
Time: 9-Jun-2009 2:56 AM (Edited)
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TheBoost said:

Would this change your opinion of anything?

No.

I don't care about his 'original intent'. The films were made the way they were made, and that's the way I and millions of others saw them from 1977-1997. Knowing what I know now about him, I think that we're fortunate that a lot of Lucas' original intentions didn't reach fruition.

The only thing that would lessen my ire over the SEs is if the OOT was given a proper release.

Author: Akwat Kbrana
Time: 9-Jun-2009 8:19 AM
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Bad ideas are bad ideas, regardless of whether they were thought up in 1972 or 1992. My fundamental views would remain unchanged, though I would respect 70's George a lot less knowing that he'd planned to rip his movies apart all along. I'd also count it nothing short of miraculous that the OT turned out as good as it did, but rethink my critical evaluation vis-a-vis the SE and PT? Not on your life; quality is a great deal more important to me than whether or not something was originally intended.

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Author: doubleofive
Time: 9-Jun-2009 11:05 AM
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If there is ever proof the idea for Jar Jar wasn't made up over the weekend in the late 90's by one of George's kids, I will eat my shoe.

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Author: Sluggo
Time: 9-Jun-2009 11:24 AM
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To me, there is one big give-away to this lie of Original Intent. All of those things that we know are in the file of original intent (such as Anakin wanting his son to have his lightsaber when he was old enough and Leia remembering her mother) aren't really in the films at all.

Obi-wan stopping to pick up Anakin's saber had to be filmed in pick-up shots because Lucas forgot all about it and wrote it in at the last minute. And no attempt to make the scene even match the original trilogy, either.

Author: doubleofive
Time: 9-Jun-2009 11:52 AM
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If Lucas had hired just one person half as invested in the OT as we are, the prequels would be so much better for it. Just someone to say "Obi-wan said that Yoda trained him" or "Leia remembers her mother" or "Obi-wan kind of needs Anakin's lightsaber".

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Author: fishmanlee
Time: 9-Jun-2009 12:04 PM
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obi-wan got anakins saber

John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/

Author: Akwat Kbrana
Time: 9-Jun-2009 1:14 PM
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Sure, he picked it up after hacking Ani's limbs off. Hardly a perfect fit to "your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough..."

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Author: doubleofive
Time: 9-Jun-2009 1:28 PM
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fishmanlee said:
obi-wan got anakins saber

Sluggo said:
Obi-wan stopping to pick up Anakin's saber had to be filmed in pick-up shots because Lucas forgot all about it and wrote it in at the last minute. And no attempt to make the scene even match the original trilogy, either.

Only because someone reminded Lucas well after the filming was done.

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Author: fishmanlee
Time: 9-Jun-2009 1:30 PM
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"well, obi-wan just thought that that was what anna woulda wanted" - GL

John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/

Author: doubleofive
Time: 9-Jun-2009 1:37 PM
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Exactly. You shouldn't HAVE to justify things that happen in a prequel. You already established what happened, just show it to us. Changing things makes it a reboot.

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Author: fishmanlee
Time: 9-Jun-2009 1:49 PM
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oh and one of my friends thinks padme should stop calling him ani when hes grown up (maybe the only mention after that should be when she says he has grown?

John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/

Author: Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda
Time: 9-Jun-2009 2:24 PM
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TheBoost said:
Would this change your opinion of anything?

Yes, it would mean that GL's insanity started earlier than I had believed.

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Author: Lan Hikari
Time: 9-Jun-2009 6:11 PM
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Not one bit. I like others perfered the OT exactly the way it was, with no pointless tinkering whatsoever. I am one who is not bothered by the PT as I have said in the past. But the SE crap is what miffs me off royally to to a major degree, and I can't stand the garbage put in it (especially Hayden in ROTJ, absolutely outrageous! aaaarrrrrrgggghhh). I could not care less if he said that the stinkin SE changes were what he envisioned in 77-83. They suck to me either way (like with others), end of story. I agree wholeheartedly with Mielr: A proper OOT release would aid this situation over the SE, definately.

Author: CO
Time: 9-Jun-2009 8:08 PM (Edited)
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Sluggo said:
To me, there is one big give-away to this lie of Original Intent. All of those things that we know are in the file of original intent (such as Anakin wanting his son to have his lightsaber when he was old enough and Leia remembering her mother) aren't really in the films at all.

Obi-wan stopping to pick up Anakin's saber had to be filmed in pick-up shots because Lucas forgot all about it and wrote it in at the last minute. And no attempt to make the scene even match the original trilogy, either.

Unbelievable how Lucas forgot about that!

The best Lucas 'being out of touch with the OT' story was Lucas admitting on the ROTS commentary, "When the supposed Tantive IV appeared on screen in Revenge of the Sith, the crowd went crazy! I had no idea what they were cheering at, until (whoever was sitting next to him) said to Lucas, "Everyone is going crazy because that is the first image we all saw in the theaters in 1977, its iconic!"

And we wonder why there are plotholes written during the PT;)

Author: skyjedi2005
Time: 9-Jun-2009 10:44 PM (Edited)
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If we were going by original intent. Lucas would have directed a Flash Gordon movie if given the rights.

Or a remake of the hidden fortress in a sci fi setting,lol.

Read the 1973 treatment and then the 1974 script its so vastly different from what we ended up with.

Anybody who believes the trilogy was planned as executed from day one is deluded beyond measure.

Other than having Vader, The empire and the rebels, han, luke and leia the sequel could have been about anything.

There are themes and concepts in embryo in the treatment and prototype scripts but entirely different as done in the films.

Some characters where split and divided into more than one and others were merged.

The one thing i can say about the rough draft script less kiddie then the finished 1977 film and the poltics are heavy handed like the prequels.

You have a sex scene or at least mentioned if not shown. You have a emperor based on both Richard Nixon and Adolf Hitler called CoS Dashit. You have a monarchy in which Leia the non sister in this version is the princess her father is a king. But elected monarch. It is like Lucas wanted the fairy tale kingdom idea as well as democracy,lol.

The rough draft script is parts hidden fortress, yojimbo and sanjuro. Parts Flash Gordon and John Carter of Mars, part Dune,lol. Once you get to the third draft you have dialogue directly lifted from the hobbit and a theme not unlike lord of the rings. Except that the Kiber Crystal could be used for good as well as for evil. Unlike the ring which was wholly evil in origin.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

Author: vote_for_palpatine
Time: 10-Jun-2009 5:16 PM
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To some extent, some of the PT stuff was foreshadowed in Lucas' early notes, as zombie pointed out in Secret History. Bottom line is that the young George Lucas had a much greater instinct about what to keep and what to throw out than old GL does. Not to mention the invaluable input of talented people with enough brass to tell him, "No, George."

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Author: TMBTM
Time: 11-Jun-2009 5:05 AM
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doubleofive said:
If Lucas had hired just one person half as invested in the OT as we are, the prequels would be so much better for it. Just someone to say "Obi-wan said that Yoda trained him" or "Leia remembers her mother" or "Obi-wan kind of needs Anakin's lightsaber".

I think many persons told him things like that during the making of the PT but he just did not care much, or came with quick cheesy answers and the people in front of him did not have the guts to say no.

Personaly I'm sure Lucas did not forget about those little lines from the OT. He just wanted to make a script around new things (and why not?) but he has gone too far, and he had to fill the gaps but it was too late. At least that's the way I see it.

Author: ATown8814
Time: 15-Jun-2009 3:01 PM
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Just like Francis Ford Coppola dropped the ball with The Godfather Part III...

Lucas did the same, and his films suffered as a result.

Jar Jar Binks = Mary Corleone (or Joey Zasa).

Author: Gaffer Tape
Time: 15-Jun-2009 3:16 PM
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Bah! That ball was handled just fine!

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.