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Opinion: Return Of The Jedi is Very Underrated. Do You Agree? — Page 2

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“That feels like a lot of nitpicking, and I’m not sure if it’s really valid.”

I’m looking at how from a logical view the throne room scene works. Also, I read and skimmed through the production, including Lucas’s thoughts from The Making of Return of the Jedi. In addition, some snippets from the rough drafts to figure context. I’ve become more convinced over the years that Jedi doesn’t really add up.

Normally, most fans don’t really look at ROTJ’s script. I looked at imdsb’s third draft, which is extremely revealing about the film. Also, I’ve re-watched ROTJ fairly recently. Comparing the film’s dialogue between ROTJ and TESB shows a lot of repetition and borrowing from TESB, or warping the words around lazily, which I’ve seen TROS do recently (TFA: Rey: I’m not going to get you anything. Kylo Ren (cocky): We’ll see.; TROS: Rey: We’ll see.). Luke does a similar thing but with Vader on the bridge scene in multiple parts:

TESB Vader: Now release your anger, only your hatred can destroy me!
TESB Vader: Search your feelings, you know it to be true!
ROTJ Luke: Search your feelings, father, you can’t do this. I feel the conflict within you, let go of your hate!

TESB Vader: Son… come with me.
ROTJ Luke: Come with me.

The manner in which ROTJ Luke inverts the situation makes ROTJ Luke to be the supposedly more threatening one here, but it also insults TESB Vader at the same time, tbh.

It’s a bit cringy, honestly- it doesn’t feel like Luke is on even ground with Vader; it feels like he’s insulting Vader or forcing him to change, rather than a mutual understanding, which I got better during Luke’s duel with Vader in TESB.

TESB Bespin Cloud City:
Vader: Your destiny lies with me, Skywalker- Obi-Wan knew this to be true.
(Luke tries looking away once, probably for an opening to escape). Luke (looking straight at Vader again, then boldly): No.

Vader: With our combined strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy.
Luke (still distressed from the loss of his hand): I’ll never join you!

The general lack of emotion from Hamill in the bridge scene (with a questionable reliance on head nodding and shaking to convey non-verbal meaning) is hard for the audience to emphasize with. When David Prowse is doing a better job emoting in the Darth Vader suit than Hamill, something is off.

Luke acting actively by challenging Vader through generally emotionless gestures and cold, indifferent words likely to “punish” Vader (“Then, my father is truly dead.”) is rather inconsistent with Empire’s ending where Luke was scared by Vader nearly killing him and his emotions at the end- denial- fear, horror, acknowledgement of Vader’s relationship with him. Luke was trying to get away from Vader at the end, when Vader cut off his hand, since he was a threat, now Luke is threatening Vader.

“The whole point of that scene is that the audience can’t be sure if Palpatine is telling the truth. He’s manipulative, what he says to one person can be different from what he says to another.”

Unfortunately, from what I have discovered, the ROTJ emperor actually has part of Vader’s idea of “only your hatred can destroy me”- it was discussed during the production of the film, which means that the Emperor is part TESB Vader.

One could assert that the Emperor taught Vader this philosophy, but it wasn’t created until ROTJ’s production.

“He acts like he doesn’t care about Luke, but in reality he’s afraid.”

Can you cite evidence of this? Several-several times in the film- the emperor is unafraid of Luke- dismissing his guards in front of him, taking his lightsaber confidently, calling it a “Jedi weapon”, encouraging Luke to strike him down in order to start the fight (or is convinced that Luke will go to the dark side as soon as it happens), and calling Luke- the threat in Empire- “a young fool”.

“He knows the light is more powerful than the darkness, and tries his best to eliminate the closest threat to his power.”

No, he doesn’t. It’s because the emperor’s petty, and Luke’s a twerp to him.

Lucas:… "But Luke turns off his lazer sword, throws it at the Emperor. “I have controlled my hate;I don’t hate my father. If you are so much on the dark side, you kill me- I dare you.”

“The Emperor gets enraged. The Emperor has a temper. He is a hateful, angry person, and so he says, “You little twerp!” And maybe he does what I had in the other script [either the first rough summary or its revision] where he starts shooting lightning bolts and Luke starts gasping for breath.”- p. 73, The Making of Return of the Jedi

“But he didn’t realize that the closest threat to him was his own second-in-command. Him not realizing that Vader will betray him is a key plot point, it’s not a hole in the story or anything like that.”

It’s a forced plot point, actually. Long before Rian Johnson did his “plot twists”, which mostly do actually have set-ups proceeding the said twists, and these set-ups make sense. I can’t say the same for Return.

Vader’s Motivation, Part II
Lucas: I don’t like the idea of Vader saying to Luke, “Come on over to our side.” Let’s forget what Vader is really trying to do, kill the Emperor.- p. 73, The Making of Return of the Jedi

Vader’s motivation of having Luke join him is almost entirely absent from the film, except for a deleted scene in ROTJ, with Vader calling out to Luke to join him. Even then, Vader doesn’t go into specifics-i.e. kill the Emperor, train with me more, rule the whole galaxy, etc. It is mostly implied “give yourself to the dark side” and is extremely vague.

When Vader has the opportunity to destroy the Emperor early on when Luke decides to full-on attack the Emperor, he chickens out, even though “Luke’s skills are complete?” Luke is now the foreseen threat to the Emperor, and if we are to take the Emperor seriously at his declaration that Luke will complete his training to the dark side; he was only an act away from the dark side (doesn’t make sense, but if it’s true, then Luke is extremely powerful). Vader: “You don’t know the power of the dark side!” Sometimes the comments are leaning towards favoring the Emperor “It is pointless to resist, my son.” [i.e. The emperor’s offer to the dark side] “The emperor is your master now”.

“He claimed that Luke had a lack of vision, but in reality he was the one who couldn’t forsee his own demise.”"
True- fair enough.

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I think RotJ is, for the most part, better than a lot of the SW movies that came after it. But I also feel like it’s the one that suffered the most from Lucas’ changes, which contributes to me feeling like it’s the weakest of the original three. The Jedi Rocks dance number, Ghost Hayden and Vader’s added “No!” were awful additions and it leaves me borderline angry whenever I watch them.

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That’s a big wall of text, Birdwatcher. I personally think that if you need to do some insanely complicated metatextual reading in order to explain why a certain scene is bad, then you’re reaching a bit too far. I’m not a big fan of the Plinkett-style long-form criticism, I prefer to just look at what’s in the movie. And when I watch the movie, I still think the throne room part is great. It’s hard to put into words why, though.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

Anakin Starkiller said:

Having Qui-Gon go against the Jedi Code, be gay, and have an affair with Darth Maul is all certainly possible, but somehow it just feels like several bridges too far for me.

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TheBirdwatcher said:
The manner in which ROTJ Luke inverts the situation makes ROTJ Luke to be the supposedly more threatening one here, but it also insults TESB Vader at the same time, tbh.

Like many fans, you do not understand (or do not like) the concept called character development. If Vader stayed the same as in ANH and ESB, there would be no character development and it would be boring. Vader at the end of ESB was profoundly affected by the encounter with Luke (something he did not expect in the slightest) and ROTJ perfectly develops upon that. Luke’s character developed from ESB as well and ROTJ did a great job at it.

Same goes for fans wanting the “old Han” nonsense. If he stayed the same as in ANH and for the large portion of ESB, there would be basically no character development, which would be boring.

In the end, ROTJ does pretty much the most character development of the three films.

真実

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Lucas acknowledged in the ROTJ story conferences that he was basically jettisoning Vader’s old motivation of wanting to overthrow the Emperor and rule alongside Luke.

Which makes sense, for the dramatic needs of the film - Vader as a seemingly helpless puppet of the Emperor who doesn’t realize he can kill his master is much more amenable to redemption than a Vader who craves power and merely thinks the wrong guy is in charge.

But it does create a discontinuity with the more personally ambitious, selfish Vader in ESB. I suppose with the idea during ESB’s filming that the third film would feed into a Sequel Trilogy with Luke’s lost sister, Vader’s redemption wasn’t a pre-determined part of the saga plotline. It still could’ve happened, but it wasn’t a necessary dramatic keystone.

In which case it’s possible to imagine a Vader who remains evil and selfish, and a Luke who won’t kill his father but lets him die from a perilous situation. Like Batman letting Ra’s Al Ghul die in Batman Begins - or a robot “letting a human come to harm through inaction”, in the phrasing of Asimov’s Laws of Robotics.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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I think ROTJ has some minor flaws, but I still think it’s a great movie. It blows me away that some people think TLJ or ROTS are better films. (They’re entitled to their opinion, I just can’t see it)

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What imo makes Jedi unique is the 2nd act. Taking this stuff at face value and just looking at it from a story and character stance really makes Jedi separate from Empire and SW/ANH. Luke finding out the truth from Yoda about Vader, him finding out Leia is his sister from Obi, him telling Leia about them being related and Vader is their father and her having the ability to use the force. Before I go on I love it after Luke walks off to Vader and Han comes out to see what’s going on and see something is wrong, he gets agitated because Leia won’t tell him. Old Han would’ve walked away but he actually stops and turns to apologize . Leia was told a huge load of stuff and is trying to take it all in. She goes to Han for comfort. Then the talk between Vader and Luke on the landing platform about him accepting the truth of Vader being his father and him trying to turn him and Vader just accepting how far gone down the Darkside he is and Luke saying “He’s Father it truly dead.” You don’t see Vader react to it until he is alone on the walkway. I imagine that really started inside him the turn. He is truly reflecting what he became and what life could’ve been and maybe Luke was right, but we see what happens later when he saves him.

All my life as I looked away to the future, to the horizon. Never in my mind did I know where I was, what I was doing.

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The acting in ROTJ is not great. From Carrie, Harry, and Mark. It’s like the editor didn’t care and grabbed the worst takes. Maybe they were practicing for the Christmas special.

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heil palpatine.

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IMO it’s actually ANH that’s the black sheep of the OT and not ROTJ. ESB and ROTJ both had much more more emotional depth then ANH which glossed over even a whole planet’s destruction with a population of millions to just be a fun space epic. ANH is still a great film but I’m willing to admit there’s some deep emotional depth not touched on in there, and dark stuff that doesn’t feel as dark as it really is because of the way it’s presented. You have an entire planet blown up full of millions of people glossed over, Leia doesn’t even have a scene where she grieves over it, Leia gets tortured and it doesn’t feel as dark as it should (compare with the similar scene in ESB with Vader and Han, in which you have dark music and hear Han’s painful screams), and Luke is stone cold when his best friend dies and there’s no mention of him afterwards. I will give it credit for Owen and Beru’s death, Luke mourning Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan recalling the fall of the Republic though (the looks on his face perfectly show that he’s been through some tragic stuff).

Plus it has no Imperial March, it was before Vader underwent his epic makeover (new shiny helmet, way cooler looking chest plate, actual chest lights, etc.; he didn’t look bad at all in ANH, he still looks awesome, but I feel like anybody who says they didn’t improve his look in ESB onwards is lying to themselves), it looks like its on less of a budget (which to be fair is because it was), in general aesthetic ESB and ROTJ look more alike then ANH does to ESB and ROTJ, ANH focuses a lot less on powerful Force users like the Jedi and Sith and more on more… I guess ordinary people? Like pilots, bounty hunters and politicians (ordinary is probably a bad word and an understatement but compared to Jedi and Sith they definitely feel ordinary). Which in and of itself isn’t a bad thing (I love the Mandalorian… a ton; I think its because of emotional depth, stunning atmosphere and great character development that I don’t mind the fact that its less about force users) but I like more balance. Now I’m not hating on ANH here, it’s got great story, character development, revolutionary special effects, excellent music, it’s a ton of fun, yada yada yada, but I’m just saying why ROTJ has more appeal to my modern sensibilities. I love movies that make me feel and think more, and the thing that interests me most about Star Wars is the Jedi and Sith and the powerful force users in the PT and OT.

I know people will bring up the Ewoks as a way of saying how ROTJ is supposedly way more kid friendly, but think about the heavy stuff in the stuff with Vader, Luke, Sidious, Yoda, and Obi-Wan. That scene with Luke and Vader on Endor with Luke telling his father to come with him is one of my favorite movie scenes of all time and incredibly powerful and deep. It’s a meaningful, beautiful conversation between a son and his father who went on the wrong path and let his rage consume him and lost everything he had ever loved, and his son is trying to help him out of the horrible trap he’s fallen into. When Vader says “It’s too late for me, son”, that shit hits hard because I know what it’s like to hate myself because I messed up and think it’s too late for me to dig myself out of a hole I’ve dug myself into. It’s emotional and deep and part of why Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is my favorite character of all time. Obi-Wan and Luke’s conversation on Dagobah is also very deep. Though I think someone said it’s because he was sick of doing the movies, Alec Guinness looking more tired and depressed actually works very well as he reminisces about Anakin and talks about how he’s “More machine then man.” And when Vader goes back to being Anakin and saves his son from the Emperor is my favorite movie scene of all time. It’s very dark and powerful. Luke’s screams for help are heart wrenching and when Anakin picks up the Emperor it feels so triumphant, and then it feels so touching when Luke goes over to his father and comforts him. Anakin’s death is also impactful and sad, I don’t cry but I almost do. The whole thing has the emotional depth of an ocean and it gives it the screen time and gravitas it deserves. The acting is utterly incredible and the character development is phenomenal and tugs at my heart.

Even think about some of the stuff at Jabba’s palace. You got sex slaves that are dropped to their death underneath a trap door where a monster will eat them if they are disobedient. If anything the Ewok stuff is there to balance the fact that everything else is so serious and dark. It’d be a very dour, dark film otherwise.

So yes, I’d say underrated. For me its ESB > ROTJ > ANH.

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I really don’t like the term “underrated” (or “overrated”) for that matter.

Calling something underrated without any context is not useful. What is it’s current rating? Are we assigning a numerical value for it? If it’s currently rated 8.1 but I think it’s an 8.2 is it still worth calling it out for being underrated? If we constantly call something underrated does it then become overrated?

I would prefer to just rate the film and keep it at that.

That being said, Return of the Jedi is my second favorite Star Wars film (behind the original) and is in my top ten films of all time.

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I do think a lot of fans are overly harsh on RotJ. It’s my third favorite film in the franchise and will always be a personal favorite of mine when speaking about films in general.

People can always discuss what could’ve been done differently with the film and argue over the validity of different creative decisions, but when you get down to it, it’s a really good movie that does a great job of closing off the trilogy and wrapping up the overarching stories of both the OT and (in hindsight) the prequels.

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I certainly have a lot of nostalgia for that film, considering that it was the first Star Wars film I ever saw as far as I recall. However, I’d still say it’s a vast downgrade from Star Wars and Empire. Besides Luke and Vader’s conflict (which is brilliantly concluded), the plot is definitely less intriguing, and that’s partly due to the film’s jarring second act which feels very pointless. I think trying to avoid the maturity that Empire brought was a mistake in the long run – it would have made the trilogy resonate with me a lot more in terms of its impact if it did. I’d say even the acting and the dialogue can be a bit rough at times. Don’t get me wrong, I really like Return of the Jedi, despite these glaring issues. The best way to describe Jedi is that it’s a very flawed, but ultimately powerful conclusion to the trilogy.

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ROTJ was my favorite SW film as a child and I’d say it remains in my top 5. I’d still say it’s the weakest of the OT, specially coming after the impressive heights Empire reached, but it’s still one of the most entertaining to rewatch. I concede that the plot doesn’t make too much sense (specially at the beginning) and sadly many characters get sidetracked, but when it’s good, it’s really great. The space battle of Endor remains my favorite and the relationship between Anakin/Vader and Luke really sums up the emotional core of the saga.

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I would say the end is quite bittersweet. Anakin was redeemed but Luke lost his father, Leia the woman who Luke had deep feelings for ended up being his sister. And he all alone is supposed to revive the Jedi Order, despite losing both of his teachers Obi Wan and Yoda. And having no idea what he is supposed to do other than to train Leia as instructed by Yoda. Pass on What you have learned.

Since we know Luke fell to hubris just like Obi Wan and continued the cycle. I don’t see a happy teddy bear picnic ending to the Saga. I’ve seen the Disney trilogy. I know what happens next.

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TheBirdwatcher said:

Now the emperor dismisses this, saying that they are safe from the attack (how would Luke even know if he’s telling the truth here?), commands an attack from a button on his large chair that can spin (did Vader’s chair even do this in Empire?), and the DS II starts blowing up… a few large ships. Not everyone, just a few large ships. Wait, the rebels are in a trap with the Empire’s fleet. So, the emperor says that ALL THE REBELS will die. However, from what I remember, the rebels could actually leave, but they were staying around to wait for the rebels to break down the shield barrier on Endor “We’ve gotta give them more time!- Lando”. So, they really weren’t being destroyed entirely- they could just leave (with some casualties) if push came to shove.

This is a good point.

TheBirdwatcher said:

So, Luke decides to defend himself, but the emperor causes him to doubt and says that it’s inevitable, which causes Luke to finally cave in, despite initially having the confidence that ANYTHING that they did here was pointless because THEY WERE ALL going to die.

Why is this inconsistent? He believed that the rebels were going to win but Palpatine has revealed that it was all a trap and the rebels have no chance, so Luke’s confident mindset has been destroyed.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Also, it’s weird that Luke doesn’t believe that the emperor’s lying to him and that he’s witnessing that destruction happening quickly in outer space. Luke’s usually skeptical of other claims- Luke’s destiny being with Vader and the revelation scene with Vader. While he denies that the emperor would convert him, I am surprised that an emotional conflict [death of the rebels] doesn’t come with more doubt or skepticism from Luke.

Palpatine correctly reveals that he knows the rebels plan and shows Luke that the Death Star is operational, how could this be a lie?

TheBirdwatcher said:

Then, Luke tries to kill the emperor [the smart thing because the Emperor sent a command to kill the rebels, in doing so, he is preventing more deaths from occurring], and this is blocked by Vader because the fight is pre-arranged. Apparently, according to The Making of ROTJ book, the emperor would have struck Luke down if Vader hadn’t moved. This begs the question though, how is Luke even a threat to the Emperor (which is why the Emperor was afraid of him in Empire and wanted him as an ally- to prevent himself from being destroyed by Luke) if the Emperor would have struck him down, anyway? And then, the Emperor would have been angry with Vader.

It is not made clear in this film or in ESB whether Palpatine sees Luke as a threat in the here-and-now or if he fears that Luke will become more powerful later on. Perhaps this is a problem but it never really bothered me.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Then, we have Luke going into his stoic (insane) mode where he proclaims his view [or delusion, since his desire to save Vader is only present in Return. He gave no indication of it in Empire, and he didn’t have a conflict over killing his father or not.] that Vader is good still, which is besides the point; Vader can be both incredibly bad AND good. The horror lies in what Vader has already accomplished (killing most of the Jedi, some of the rebels, Biggs, torturing Han and Leia, etc.).

Luke did not know that Vader was his father until the end of Empire (when he was in no position to kill or save him) and this isn’t confirmed by Yoda until this film. It seems pretty obvious to me that Luke, having been conflicted since the end of ESB, decides in this film to save his father. It’s called character development. As for Vader, yes he’s done horrible things but Luke senses in him a potential for redemption.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Then, Vader and Luke try to seek each other out. Luke trying to keep his emotions in check is ridiculous, if I must be the first person to say this. In Empire, he didn’t care about his feelings, besides avoiding to hate, and he did so maturely by focusing on the right thing- defending his friends. Honestly, it makes Luke look juvenile when he’s supposed to be a man in this film to have him hiding in the background trying to suppress his feelings. Who cares, honestly?

Then Vader gives Luke a reason to hate, except that this reason is actually poor- it’s Leia may somehow turn to the dark side. Not- “I killed your best friend. I killed the rebels. I tortured Han and Leia. I indirectly killed your aunt and uncle. I killed Obi-wan.”. It’s a vague reason, and the only reason that Luke cares is because he believed that Leia was the only hope for the rebels, even though they could have found someone else who was force-sensitive or else to connect with the force. Even in Final Fantasy XII, where there’s a similar scene, it’s revealing that a death occurred from a specific person.

The point here is that Vader is using Luke’s loyalty to his friends against him.

TheBirdwatcher said:

So, Luke looses it, complete with hell imagery from the red lights on the elevator shaft. Luke’s going dark? Okay. I guess we go all in with this, even though Luke threw himself off of a pillar in Empire to prevent himself from joining Vader and the dark side.

These are two different situations so Luke reacts differently to each one.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Also, Luke tosses his lightsaber away, instead of keeping it, because… he was warned by Yoda to beware of the Emperor’s abilities? Also, did Luke not realize that the Emperor could use/sense the force by knowing his emotions?
In addition, Luke’s tense breathing here indicates danger, so Luke KNOWS that he is doing something risky. Why not keep the lightsaber for safety? Is Luke intending to die here? What is going on?

As you yourself pointed out, Luke went into this confrontation prepared to die as long as he could save his father. Safety it not his concern and his lightsaber, at this point, represents a temptation to strike out in anger.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Then, the Emperor shocks Luke because Luke is a punk (young fool), apparently, and young fools who defy the Emperor must die. If Luke isn’t that powerful (by rejecting the dark side) why kill Luke, though? Couldn’t you just leave the guy alone? If he’s of not much help by not being of the dark side according to your perspective, why even kill him? If you were confident in DS II destroying ALL OF THE REBEL ALLIANCE, why is Luke even a concern to you?

I think the Emperor is just being sadistic at this point and, again, I assume that he view Luke as a potential future threat.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Then, Luke begs for Vader to save him (ala begging Obi-wan to save him in Empire). Luke, you made your stand to defy the Emperor, you threw away your lightsaber, did you not expect the Emperor to retaliate or at least send in some guards to hurt you? Why even make your stand (to die) if you’re going to beg Vader to save you?

Luke’s whole motivation in this scene is to save his fathers soul. It’s why he gave himself up in the first place.

TheBirdwatcher said:

The general lack of emotion from Hamill in the bridge scene (with a questionable reliance on head nodding and shaking to convey non-verbal meaning) is hard for the audience to emphasize with. When David Prowse is doing a better job emoting in the Darth Vader suit than Hamill, something is off.

The lack of emotion is intentional because Luke is trying to suppress his emotions. The dark side is all about giving in to your emotions so it makes sense that Vader is more expressive.

TheBirdwatcher said:

Luke acting actively by challenging Vader through generally emotionless gestures and cold, indifferent words likely to “punish” Vader (“Then, my father is truly dead.”) is rather inconsistent with Empire’s ending where Luke was scared by Vader nearly killing him and his emotions at the end- denial- fear, horror, acknowledgement of Vader’s relationship with him. Luke was trying to get away from Vader at the end, when Vader cut off his hand, since he was a threat, now Luke is threatening Vader.

Luke has clearly grown and changed since ESB as has Vader.

TheBirdwatcher said:

When Vader has the opportunity to destroy the Emperor early on when Luke decides to full-on attack the Emperor, he chickens out, even though “Luke’s skills are complete?” Luke is now the foreseen threat to the Emperor, and if we are to take the Emperor seriously at his declaration that Luke will complete his training to the dark side; he was only an act away from the dark side (doesn’t make sense, but if it’s true, then Luke is extremely powerful). Vader: “You don’t know the power of the dark side!” Sometimes the comments are leaning towards favoring the Emperor “It is pointless to resist, my son.” [i.e. The emperor’s offer to the dark side] “The emperor is your master now”.

Vader no longer wants to rule the galaxy with Luke and/or he doesn’t believe they can other-throw the Emperor any more. It seems likely that finding his son, along with Luke’s continual refusal to join him, has rekindled Anakin’s humanity in some way. The fact that the emperor foresaw (seemingly) the events which brought he and Luke to this juncture seems to preclude the possibility that he can be defeated, at least at this moment.

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Damn some people just don’t understand Return of the Jedi don’t they 😂

I fully understood this shit when I was fucking 13. Two words: CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Why tf is Birdwatcher whining that the characters aren’t exactly the same they are in ESB? LUKE MATURED AND IS NO LONGER SCARED OF VADER, MOVIE BAD. Like darn it’s not like a whole lot has happened since then in-universe. It’s not like the Emperor is evil and likes to torment people, Vader is conflicted and Luke is trying to redeem is father. Nooooooo…

Also before he was redeemed Vader still wanted to overthrow the Emperor with Luke. But the Emperor wasn’t just going to let Luke kill him right there. If anything Vader saved Luke from the Emperor’s wrath.

Hamill showed a lot of emotion on the bridge scene. The delivery of “Search your feelings father, you can’t do this. I feel the conflict within you let go of your hate” is perfect.

Luke threw away his lightsaber to show defiantly that he wouldn’t kill his father.

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Haha agreed G&G! Luke really isn’t inconsistent to his trajectory or the problem, Leia in a tree-house saying “Hold me!” is the far bigger culprit. I am on the same page with most that ROTJ may have some of the lower lows of the trilogy but does make up for it with some of the highest highs, most of which is the Luke/Vader/Emperor stuff.

It’s a bit jarring to get something as kid friendly as ROTJ after ESB though not totally out of character, but it never gets so stupid to me to take myself out of the good parts which can still give chills. In my opinion, when Luke throws down his saber and says “I am a Jedi, like my father before me.” it’s one of the great powerful moments in cinematic history.

“The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.” - DV