Mel Gibson is nuts — Page 4

C3PX said:

Appropriate? Considerable? Whatever. Some punk tries to steal from me, I will hurt him. Obviously the situation varies with the size of the guy and what kinds of weapons he has, but if I have the opportunity to protect my property (even some lousy greenbacks) against some idiot who has decided to take it from me, I am going to take action. 

I know you mean this in a general sense, and I won't argue.  Just a reminder that in this specific case, the punk was a woman and the "weapon" she was holding was her child.

But I will grant you that anyone or anything can be dangerous...

C3PX said:

Warb mentioned taking the law into your own hands? The law has nothing to do with it, it is my property being taken, I have a right to defend it. I am not attacking the guy because he is breaking the law, I am attacking him because he is taking something that belongs to me.

I think you've misunderstood me.  When I was talking about taking the law into your own hands, I was referring to situation where the robbery had already taken place and the thief left the scene.    You don't go and try to find the thief yourself and take revenge, you call the cops.   If we are talking a theft in progress, I think you have every right to defend yourself and your property, within reason.    Self defense in the middle of a theft is one thing,  taking revenge after the fact is another.      

C3PX said:

Bingowings said:

It was strange to read that a William Peter Blatty (an author and director I greatly admire) is a big fan of The Passion Of The Christ.

Why was it strange to read? Was The Passion that awful? I never saw it.

I actually think its pretty good. 

C3PX said:

Bingowings said:

It was strange to read that a William Peter Blatty (an author and director I greatly admire) is a big fan of The Passion Of The Christ.

Why was it strange to read? Was The Passion that awful?

Yes.

http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-044-foxman.htm

http://www.adl.org/interfaith/gibson_qa.asp

xhonzi said:

The Passion to me, as a Christian, is listening to someone else give a testimony of Christ that is similar to your own, but not quite the same.  You focus on what you share in common, as opposed to what splits you... But at the same time, there is some really gorey stuff in that movie.  They made a PG-13ish cut (it might still be Rated R, but the gore is toned down) which I haven't seen, but would prefer to try next time.

It's not the gore, but who is shown to be responsible.

Q. Mel Gibson has stated that many people are calling him an anti-Semite. What is ADL's position?
A. ADL and its representatives have never accused Mr. Gibson of being an anti-Semite. We do not know what is in his heart. We only know what he has put on the movie screen. The images there show Romans who behave with compassion toward Jesus. The Roman governor, Pontius Pilate, constantly expresses his reticence to harm Jesus. The Jews, on the other hand, are depicted as blood-thirsty. The Jewish High Priest, Caiaphas, is shown as bullying Pilate, and the hundreds and hundreds of amassed Jews demanding Jesus' death.

I agree.

http://www.jcrelations.net/en/?item=737

Note that this is posted at the Jewish-Christian Relations website of the International Council of Christians and Jews.

I complaints about the antisemitism in the movie are overblown.   The depict of the Jewish people in the movie is accurate to what is in the Bible.  

From the King James version of the Bibile

John Chapter 19 Verse 11:

Jesus answered "Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." 

Matthew Chapter 27 Verse 25:

Then answered all the people, and said "His blood be on us and on our children"

I'm not saying I agree with those verses, but they are in the Bible.  If you want to make a biblically accurate depiction of the events around the crucifixion, those quotes may be added.   

Just to be clear, I neither blame the Jews today nor the Jewish people back then for Christ's crucifixion.   I blame certain Jews(those in the sanhedrin for example).   I also blame the Roman empire.   I also blame myself, because I believe he died for my sins.   

xhonzi said:

I may be stepping out of line here, but at what point in time will Germans be all offended at the portrayal of Nazi's in WWII films, and start this kind of shenanigans?  (As I write this, I'm sure it's already started, but most people sort of ignore them)  I don't hold any malice towards modern Germans, or even 1940s Germans who weren't Nazis.

Barely anyone disputes the evilness of the Nazis.  It did not happen very long ago and we have a very accurate picture of what happened.  The death of Jesus happened a long time ago and we do not have the same accurate picture of the events.

By the way...

http://www.adl.org/media_watch/internet/letter_slate_030919.htm

I'm starting to take this a bit personally, and I usually try not to do so.  Therefore I'm bowing out of this discussion.

C3PX said:

TV's Frink said:

C3PX said:

Appropriate? Considerable? Whatever. Some punk tries to steal from me, I will hurt him. Obviously the situation varies with the size of the guy and what kinds of weapons he has, but if I have the opportunity to protect my property (even some lousy greenbacks) against some idiot who has decided to take it from me, I am going to take action. 

I know you mean this in a general sense, and I won't argue.  Just a reminder that in this specific case, the punk was a woman and the "weapon" she was holding was her child.

Now I know how Gaffer felt when he blew up several post back. I don't need to be fucking reminded. I know that was what this topic began as, but notice what I was quoting and responding to. Had nothing to do with Gibson.

My apologies for not being clear.  The reminder was not meant for you specifically but for everyone reading the thread.  That's why I said I knew you meant it in a general sense (and not related to this incident).

Really though, I just wanted to post a bunch of silly pictures ;-)

xhonzi said:The New Testament tells us that the Romans only crucified Christ because the Jews, their tenants, demanded it. 

well I'm sorry, but even if your tenants demand it, you don't execute an innocent man.  

C3PX said:  certain thread starters refusing to change the title of the thread to properly reflect what it should be about. Jeez!)

just what would you have me change the title to? You really think this thread should be about the tango?

C3PX said:

Okay, so back to Mr. Gibson, Gaff and I are of very like mind on the whole judgment thing. I am not trying to say the guy is not wrong or justify him, it is just that there is usually a lot more to the story. She remains remarkably and impressively calm in every one of these clips (yes, I have listened to them). At first you think, wow, what an impressive woman to put up with such a jerk yelling at her and insulting her in such a calm manner. Poor woman, she really needs to get away from this man. Poor baby, I hope she gets custody.

You have to remember, that SHE is the one doing the recordings, so of course she remains impressively calm. She recorded them with the intend of releasing them, so it is stands to reason she would be extra careful to paint herself as nicely as possible. She is very clever, and very sly.I had already picked that out before Compmovieguy piped up and told us she had a history of this stuff.

Every story has two sides, but we very rarely get both sides of any story. Again, yes, Mel Gibson is clearly a bigot and a jerk, he shouldn't be using racial slurs, etc. That is off to the side of the point though, that is a different matter, and he looses on that matter 100%. Mel Gibson's antisemitism has been known for a long time, you'd have to question why this woman was with such a hate filled bigoted man, but she was, and seemingly loved him enough to have a baby with him. 

If she really loved him, and really is the victim of the man she loved gone crazy, as she is trying to portray herself, then why release these tapes to the public? Why not just go to the police for domestic violence? That being on record would be just about all she needs to win a custody battle for the child. If she really loved him, then she would want to help him and get him to get treatment for his problems.

 

In the end, we really don't know the whole situation here. I agree he is very wrong in using racial slurs and being antisemitic, but we have known that for a long time. Everyone is going to take her side, but for all you know she could use those very same racial slurs and feel the same way about Hispanics and Jews as he does. As far as the whole cusody battle goes, all I can say is I think the poor kid loses either way. Looks like both of his parents are pretty worthless people.

when did I ever defend the woman.  I never said she was a saint.   I agree she did put on a good act.   When I was originally listening to the tapes, I concluded that she was sounded too calm, I know it was an act.    I am not defending her,  I am merely saying that what she did, can not excuse what Gibson did.   She did not put a gun to Gibson's head and force him to say the things he said.  That she is a bad person has little to do with the point I was making with this thread, which was that Gibson is nuts.

by the way,  even if she hadn't released the tapes, they probably would still have gotten out.  If she had used them in a custody case or a domestic violence case,  the tapes would probably have to have been played IN OPEN COURT.

xhonzi said:

I may be stepping out of line here, but at what point in time will Germans be all offended at the portrayal of Nazi's in WWII films, and start this kind of shenanigans?  (As I write this, I'm sure it's already started, but most people sort of ignore them)  I don't hold any malice towards modern Germans, or even 1940s Germans who weren't Nazis. 

The handful of Germans that I know aren't all that proud of their contribution to world history.  But I wouldn't blame them for being upset if the rest of the world started to consider ALL Germans as being the same as Nazis. 

The same goes with the Jews, Christians and Muslims.  And Atheists and Agnostics, butchers, bakers and candlestick-makers.  Just because some of their number do incredibly evil things, it doesn't mean all do.  I believe that there are good and honorable people among all of God's creation. 

TV's Frink said:

xhonzi said:

I may be stepping out of line here, but at what point in time will Germans be all offended at the portrayal of Nazi's in WWII films, and start this kind of shenanigans?  (As I write this, I'm sure it's already started, but most people sort of ignore them)  I don't hold any malice towards modern Germans, or even 1940s Germans who weren't Nazis.

Barely anyone disputes the evilness of the Nazis.  It did not happen very long ago and we have a very accurate picture of what happened.  The death of Jesus happened a long time ago and we do not have the same accurate picture of the events.

One last point so I make myself clear.  I agree it is insane to blame current-day Germans for what the Nazis did.  And I think it's insane to blame current-day Jews for what the Jews supposedly did, never mind what they did or did not actually do.

xhonzi, I believe you when you say you have nothing against Jews unless they were directly involved or support what was done.  But there are plenty of people in the world who hate most Jews* because of what some Jews supposedly did.

TV's Frink said:  The death of Jesus happened a long time ago and we do not have the same accurate picture of the events.

1. many do believe they are 100% accurate(not me).   Many believe that the bible is 100% true.

2.  Even if you doubt the accuracy of the bible, if you were trying just make and accurate depiction of the the crucifixion in the bible and not caring how accurate or inaccurate the bible was, might you not include those verses?

Sadly, yes.  IIRC, many of the neo-nazi groups continue to hate the Jews for this reason.  The KKK as well.  

I SAID I WAS DONE WITH THIS DISCUSSION!!!!!

That means it's time to tango. ;-)