Making our own 35mm preservation--my crazy proposal — Page 42

Joel said:

Yes, assuming the number of frames is the same as GOUT (dubious?), there's still 24P vs 23.976 to contend with.

due to splices in the film,

like the original crawl. the opening sequence,

and the han shoots greedo scene.

there are some subtle frame differences...

i have them as separate complete reels,

some with headers, and tails that need to be trimmed.

so i don't have them as one complete final movie with

the final frame count. i'm sure it will be pretty close,

but it won't be exactly the same as the GOUT, and

those frame differences will cause drift in the audio.

i should know, i've tried it already for some parts,

as a temporary placeholder!

later

-1

red5-626 said:

Mavimao said:

TK-949 said:

negative1 said:

Laserschwert said:

I guess with all the audio projects going on here, it's not really that problematic to NOT have sound coming with the files.

you have to be careful,

even trying to synch it with the GOUT audio

will not work correctly. it's close at times,

but it's not exact.

 

you will have to stretch, trim, or alter either

the frames or the actual audio to match up

with it....

Why? I mean, are there frames missing? Because if not, the sound of the GOUT would fit, wouldn't it?

Assuming this project outputs at 23.98 fps, then yes theoretically it can match up to the Gout, but when you're dealing with film, there can always be differences in frames. Especially around the reel changes.

<span>

<span style="font-family: Arial;">I remember I had a editing class that used.
Final cut pro.
There was some way that you could edit using a low quality video so that you would not have to wait for ever rendering on every change. Than when you edit was dun you could put in the hi quality video and it would automatically edit it to what you had set.
Considering what you said about reel changes.
It may be a good idea to synch each reel separately </span>
</span>

red5-626 said:

I remember I had a editing class that used. Final cut pro.

There was some way that you could edit using a low quality

video so that you would not have to wait for ever rendering on

every change. Than when you edit was dun you could put in the

hi quality video and it would automatically edit it to what you had set.

Considering what you said about reel changes.

It may be a good idea to synch each reel separately

 

no need to.

we just drop all the files into one timeline,

and work with the whole thing that way.

here's shots of the edits being done in ESB.
================================

but of course, we do low resolution renders and

watch those to see our progress.. going to be

checking out reel 4 shortly!

later
-1

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

jero32 said:

What George Lucas is doing however, is more comparable to John Lennon deciding Yoko Ono was also part of the band, and permanently mixing her voice into the song.

Great analogy!

Brooks said:

Mavimao said:

But that seems like a lot of work. Would probably be easier just to edit the soundtracks to sync with Negative 1's project.

 

As long as -1 tells you where the reels they're assembling begin and end it should be pretty straightforward to sync them I would imagine.

have you seen this?

i did the frame data for the GOUT:

=======================

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/frame-data-star-wars-GOUT-NTSC-widescreen-V10-now-complete/topic/9567/#TopicPost324797

ok for example GOUT:

------------------------------

End Time Frame begin Frame End Last type Description

===============================================
00:00:04.505 0 108 P Blank
00:00:11.470 109 275 B fox intro
00:00:11.720 276 281 B Blank
00:00:19.561 282 469 B lucasfilm limited
00:00:21.897 470 525 B Blank
00:00:27.361 526 656 b a long time ago
00:00:29.321 657 703 p Blank
00:00:37.120 704 890 P star wars
00:01:50.736 891 2655 b star wars crawl

and here's our Reel 1 test version:

-----------------------------------------------

End Time Frame begin Frame End Last type Description

===============================================
00:00:03.875 0 93 P Blank
00:00:10.833 94 259 B fox intro
00:00:11.250 260 271 B Blank
00:00:19.166 272 457 B lucasfilm limited
00:00:21.333 458 512 B Blank
00:00:26.791 513 642 b a long time ago
00:00:28.750 643 690 p Blank
00:00:36.458 691 875 P star wars

you get the idea..

very subtle differences,

but it mostly matches..

of course, i could be off on some of my frame counts..

some of the blanks are judgement calls..

later

-1

red5-626 said:

This is why I wish that Puggo GRANDE

had been dun in HD.

What are the odds that Puggo GRANDE

would be missing the same frames?

 

 

not likely at all..

i don't think it syncs with the GOUT either,

but then again, it's using the mono mix.

 later 

-1

red5-626 said:

negative1 said:

red5-626 said:

 

This is why I wish that Puggo GRANDE

had been dun in HD.

What are the odds that Puggo GRANDE

would be missing the same frames?

 

 

 

not likely at all..

i don't think it syncs with the GOUT either,

but then again, its using the mono mix.

 later -1

 Just to be clear I was thinking  the  Puggo
frames could be used to fill in the gaps.

not needed.

we can interpolate, using the frames we have.

also we have a secondary print.

unless there's something missing from reel 3,

we also have 2 1/2 reel 5's, so it will work out.

later

-1

Honestly, as much as I love it, the quality of the Puggo leaves a lot to be desired and cannot compare to a 35mm Low fade print. It'd be like spicing in a VHS capture in a high def image. You'd probably be best either forgetting about whatever various frames might be missing, or if you want to be a completist, use the blu ray.

here is an example of what we look for

when we review the reels..

(this doesn't have frame numbers in it yet).

for example, reel 1 of empire strikes back:

=============================

reel 1 notes

----------------

time (min:sec) notes description

================================================================

01:56-02:19    image pulses/out of focus/ color of stars is off? [opening shot]

02:20-02:35    image pulses/shakes [space probe]

02:53-03:01    image shakes, discoloration on right side of screen [han on tauntaun]

04:17-04:21    image pulses/out of focus/shakes [han on tauntaun enters cave]

16:45-16:55    image shakes [luke in bed]

17:40-18:05    image pulses/shakes [luke and leia]

18:30-18:35    image pulses/shakes/out of focus [c3p0]   

19:27-19:35    image pulses/shakes [leia and general] 

19:37-20:19    image pulses/shakes/out of focus [star destroyers]

20:29-21:22    image pulses/shakes/out of focus [on star destroyer]

total time , about:

========================

23+15+8+4+10+25+5+8+42+53

= 193 sec = 3min:13sec

ok, don't get too excited..

but here's some test footage of the intro's

leading up to star wars.

these are from the red faded english print,

and show some severe anomalies with the

color shimmering.

4 tests (PLEASE DO NOT REPOST! Thanks)

===============================

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-GOUT-crawl/post/585095/#TopicPost585095

of course, we have a much better print,

and with cleanup and some color correction,

that version looks fantastic!

later

-1

Yes we know, but just about every other sound project (Mono restoration, 77 analogue stereo, Hairy Hen's 70mm recreation, 85 stereo remix) have all been synced to the GOUT.

Mavimao said:

Yes we know, but just about every other sound project (Mono restoration, 77 analogue stereo, Hairy Hen's 70mm recreation, 85 stereo remix) have all been synced to the GOUT.

Which gives you many, many options..

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/A-summary-of-GOUT-synced-Video-Audio-and-Subtitle-sources-WORK-IN-PROGRESS/topic/14360/

wwdarth said:

Okay, Gotcha - not necessarily the GOUT soundrack, simply one that's been GOUT-synced.  Thanks for clearing that up.

i have a feeling there's going to be a lot of

updated projects that will incorporate this

release as a newer standard.

maybe the OT-OUT? (original trilogy-OUT)

or the NOUT? or the ???-OUT?

we are literally trying to replace the GOUT

with a better version that can be the basis

for more versions..

i want to do a couple of grindhouse versions afterwards,

with gaps between the reels, and the heads/tails.

maybe 1 with the raw footage, and another

with the red faded version (at least color corrected).

and who knows what else we could do.

later

-1

none said:

red5-626 wrote: I found this site and got out my GOUT
http://fd.noneinc.com/Reel_Changes/Reel_Changes.html
Here is what I got.
Reel changing locations by dialog
For dummy’s.
It is not frame accurate but it will give you an idea
 of where in the hole movie the Reel changes are.

If you'd like frame accurate numbers, head on over to Mallwalker's Reel Length thread:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Reel-lengths/topic/11666/

(was working on an update of the above link which will incorporate frame numbers.  preview here: http://fd.noneinc.com/cue/cue.html but with all those pics why not just put up the video, so haven't worked on it in a while...)

yeah, that's a start.

i'm not sure, but at some point,

i'll end up doing a frame count, and

possibly scene by scene also to update

the listing i worked on. and we can 

establish that for a standard of comparison.

later

-1

I may finally be able to finish XP77 as I intended it to be...