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AT-ST vs. Redwoods

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I'm not a physicist and obviously the Star Wars universe does not follow the laws of physics BUT.....

My friend and I were arguing over how easily the Ewoks were able to route professional stormtroopers, "Palpatine's best men." One part we disagreed on was how easily two large tree trunks took out an AT-ST. I understand it's a scout vehicle, but still, according to this source, they weigh 25 tons. Couldn't a AT-ST withstand the impact of two colliding trees? I'm pretty sure an Abrams tank could withstand that force no problem.

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Mythbusters took this on in a Star Wars special, but I've not seen the whole episode to see how it turned out.

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Where were you in '77?

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questionmasterkinda said:

I'm not a physicist and obviously the Star Wars universe does not follow the laws of physics BUT.....

My friend and I were arguing over how easily the Ewoks were able to route professional stormtroopers, "Palpatine's best men." One part we disagreed on was how easily two large tree trunks took out an AT-ST. I understand it's a scout vehicle, but still, according to this source, they weigh 25 tons. Couldn't a AT-ST withstand the impact of two colliding trees? I'm pretty sure an Abrams tank could withstand that force no problem.

 Apparently a redwood tree can weigh 4000 tons, so there's no doubt that a pair of them smashing into the sides of an AT-ST could destroy one.

The question you really need to be asking yourself is how Ewoks managed to rig up traps relying on such heavy trees--especially with such short notice.

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Well if Wile E. Coyote can do the same thing and 6 more traps in a 7 minute cartoon...

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Klasodeth said:

The question you really need to be asking yourself is how Ewoks managed to rig up traps relying on such heavy trees--especially with such short notice.

I had thought of bringing that up too... but they clearly must have THE state-of-the-art pulley system that the galaxy has never seen :)

Wishlist Of Ideas/Suggestions For Improving ROTJ

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The Ewoks totally got the Phlogs to do it for them. 

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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The timing required to make sure that the trees hit on both sides simultaneously probably would require some fancy calculating and I doubt it could be pulled off manually in the heat of battle(with an axe no less). I would say plausible but not likely.

Luke threw twice…maybe.

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 (Edited)

I think you could explain this easily. The Empire had been intruding on the Ewok's moon for quite some time, so the Ewoks could have made the traps before the Rebels even arrived. It is not like the Ewoks would have just accepted the Empire's intrusion and not been the least bit afraid of them.

In a small/medium-sized country in the real world when there is unrest near a border, the local military gets beefed up because the likelihood of a conflict has been increased. If your country gets invaded then you would form a guerilla and you hide arms and make traps at various locations in case you would need them in the future.

You could find the Mythbusters episode on Youtube quite easily if you searched for it. Spoiler: The armoured truck gets smashed. You could surmise that the armour of the truck, like the AT-ST's, was made to withstand small arms fire - not a large pounding. The logs in the movie were also twice as long and pulled up higher.

In the Ewok movies, we also see them having beasts of burden and we can assume that they are skilled enough with ropes/vines and wood to make pulleys. Also, C-3PO's recognition of the Ewok language as being a dialect of a language known on other planets does indicate that Ewoks have come from another planet (moon) originally and/or would have had interaction with other worlds, which means that they could have imported knowledge for how to lift them up.
... and it is not like there aren't examples of great feats of engineering in real-world human pre-history.

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There is an alternate scene that was in From Star Wars to Jedi where the Ewoks felled a whole tree on the AT-ST.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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I'm just saying that even if you had a healthy stephen hawking and a young albert einstein in place of the 2 ewoks that were chopping with the axes, the chances of the at-st wandering into a spot close to the middle point of these 2 suspended logs would be pretty unlikely and then being able to synchronize the chopping so that both logs released  at the same time would be almost impossible.

Luke threw twice…maybe.

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 (Edited)

Perhaps they built the log trap on a known AT-ST patrol path? And then led it down the path on purpose (after all, the walkers WERE chasing ewoks through the woods)?

The only argument about it being far fetched that I think really holds any water is the need to get the timing of the cut right so they swing together accurately.

But even that wouldn't be terribly hard to do. If you hung them at the same height with the same length ropes then you'd just need to cut them at the same time. The timing wouldn't even need to be exactly perfect, just close. And how easy is it for humans to synchronize actions? Pretty easy (one, two, three, GO!!). I'd hardly imagine ewoks couldn't do the same.

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Let's face it, the AT-ST was an inside job. The Empire did it!

The outside of the AT-ST was coated with THERMITE PAINT!!

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What's also not clear is that Earth "small arms fire" is different then Star Wars "small arms fire" that the AT-ST is designed to repel. The largest armored cars filled to capacity weight about the same as a AT-ST. An average earth armored truck only weights about 12-25k pounds.

I'm not sure what type of metal they use to make an AT-ST. 

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Trees that weigh thousands of tons smashing from both sides is going to cause an impact that's easily in the double digit Megajoule level.

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Whenever I think I've reached the limit on how high my disdain for ROTJ can reach, I read a thread like this and my perimetres are expanded tenfold.

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Darth Lars said:

I think you could explain this easily. The Empire had been intruding on the Ewok's moon for quite some time, so the Ewoks could have made the traps before the Rebels even arrived. It is not like the Ewoks would have just accepted the Empire's intrusion and not been the least bit afraid of them.

In a small/medium-sized country in the real world when there is unrest near a border, the local military gets beefed up because the likelihood of a conflict has been increased. If your country gets invaded then you would form a guerilla and you hide arms and make traps at various locations in case you would need them in the future.

You could find the Mythbusters episode on Youtube quite easily if you searched for it. Spoiler: The armoured truck gets smashed. You could surmise that the armour of the truck, like the AT-ST's, was made to withstand small arms fire - not a large pounding. The logs in the movie were also twice as long and pulled up higher.

In the Ewok movies, we also see them having beasts of burden and we can assume that they are skilled enough with ropes/vines and wood to make pulleys. Also, C-3PO's recognition of the Ewok language as being a dialect of a language known on other planets does indicate that Ewoks have come from another planet (moon) originally and/or would have had interaction with other worlds, which means that they could have imported knowledge for how to lift them up.
... and it is not like there aren't examples of great feats of engineering in real-world human pre-history.

 Even with a pulley system operating at a 10:1 ratio, that would still require 4000-8000 Ewoks in order to effectively match the weight of a redwood. Even utilizing beasts of burden to do the lifting, that still amounts to hundreds of animals involved. Miles of very heavy-duty hand-made rope capable of supporting thousands of tons of weight would be needed as well. It would take quite a while to chop down several redwood trees using only hand tools, and the felling of the trees would be quite noticeable. While it's theoretically possible for primitives to find a way to hoist trees that heavy, they also have to do it right next to an Imperial base that's actively patrolled. So either the Ewoks built ultra-heavy traps unrealistically fast, or the Empire couldn't be bothered to notice or care that a horde of Ewoks was building incredibly large traps right in their backyard. Either way, there's a problem.

As for the Ewok language being known, I'd say it's more likely that some Ewoks found themselves in the same situation as enslaved Africans. Instead of coming to the moon of Endor, it's quite possible that many of them were taken from their home world. Granted, I don't see this really having a bearing on their ability to pull of major engineering feats, since as you pointed out, humans figured out all this stuff without the assistance of civilizations from other planets.

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We really don't see how far away the areas where the traps are in relation to the "back door" of the shield generator. And the Ewok movies did establish there are some hostile species around.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gorax

The log traps could have originally been made to deal with them.

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Where were you in '77?