LexX said:
Jonno said:
Both ESB and RotJ had choirs in their scores.
But they're waaay more subtle that you almost don't notice it.
Exactly. I didn't notice it, and I now will have to listen for it to see where it is in the music. It's nothing like:
La Laaaaaaaa
Laaa La Laaaaaaaa
LA LAAAAAAAA
LAAA LA LAAAAAAAA
LA LA... LA LA... LA LA... LA LA...
LA LA... LA LA... LA LA... LA LA...
LA LAAAAAAAA
LAAA LA LAAAAAAAA
etc. ;-)
SilverWook said:
I wasn't aware Joel Goldsmith had died. It certainly didn't get the media coverage his father's passing did.
It was on JWfan and FSM (Film Score Monthly) thats enough media coverage for me ;)
John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/
thorr said:
Exactly. I didn't notice it, and I now will have to listen for it to see where it is in the music.
City in the Clouds from ESB and Final Duel from RotJ are the prime examples. They're hardly subtle, but I'd agree that they use chorus much more effectively that the prequel scores (where CHOIR simply denotes EPIC).
Williams was doing far better work around that time anyway. I remember being particularly disappointed that he wasn't bringing this kind of inventiveness to his Star Wars scores:
I think it is important to remember that nobody including John Williams has ever matched John Williams from 1975-1984. Every single score he did was brilliant-even for throwaway movies like Dracula and Jaws 2. That was his creative peak and all 3 of the original SW movies fit into that time period.
That said, I did think Ep. I was excellent. Think of Duel of the Fates, The Flag Parade, Anakin's theme. It was a very good score. I think not nearly as much effort went into Ep. 2 and 3, but can we blame him?
I thought "War Horse" had some welcome energy in it- I wholeheartedly believe that if JW is presented with an outstanding movie, he will rise to the occasion.
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition
I think SW 2 and would have been better (in terms of score) had Ben Burtt not forced his "musical sound effects" trash into the end battle.
I mean, On The Conveyor belt is a great cue, but with the addition of the ridiculous "Headless Threepio Subplot", was replaced with tracked music.
Then there is the very misplaced tracked statements of the Emperor's theme in the Anakin's Confession to Padme.
John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/
Jonno said:
but I'd agree that they use chorus much more effectively that the prequel scores (where CHOIR simply denotes EPIC).
What about TOD?
The same language (Sanskrit) used for TOD's chants, was the same language used for DOTF (which in the original intended score, was used much less, and only in instrumental guises, except for a short bit in the very middle of the duel, and the end credits/concert suite)
And he also put enough effort to actually write lyrics with meaning instead of "Oooh" and "Aaah"
DOTF's lyrics were from Battle of the Trees ("Under the tounge root, a fight most dread, while another rages in the head")
BOTH's lyrics are translated to "Greivous are the crimes of the Empire"
John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/
Sanskrit translations of Gaelic as I recall?
I think the prequel scores are quite good, considering you're dealing with a million of these dry little one minute scenes of sitting around explaining stuff and loud, long action scenes that are futzed around and tinkered with long past the point where it's too late to compose and record full orchestra for it.
Bingowings said:
Sanskrit translations of Gaelic as I recall?
Celtic/Gaelic to english, to Sanskrit
John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/
TPM has a wonderful score, near the greatness of the originals, even if just not-quite-there. I admit that it is my favorite prequel (read as: the one I don't hate in my guts) but this is in large part due to the great music, not the other way around.
To be honest, AOTC did have a great love theme and a few decent tracks; can't remember anything good and truly memorable from ROTS... too bad he didn't develop on TPM for them, rather just constantly rehashing the same themes (Lucas insisted?).
I am rather surprised no one has mentioned Michael Giacchiono's work on the Medal of Honor series? I am not so much familiar with his other works, as I haven't watched many of the movies he's scored (LOST and Super 8 being examples) but MoH has fantastic soundtracks that are quite similar in tone to William's great scores for the Indiana Jones series.
Try "Allied Assault", "Panzer Attack", "Medal of Honor" themes. All are fantastic and well worth hearing.
Burdokva said:
can't remember anything good and truly memorable from ROTS...
I'll help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyqjcoYImVg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UPRhRrcMfw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meTY7hMzpZk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIHI5aouffE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ1HAWv8qy8
John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/
Thanks, fishmanlee !
I admit I have not heard some of these but they seem to have been released with various accompanying media, mostly games, rather than in the movie soundtrack itself.
Still, as it was presented in the movie, the soundtrack was mostly forgettable and did not have any strong themes. Be they bombastic and loud as the Imperial March, or something more restrained and emotional, as Leia's or Yoda's themes.
Williams is by far the best thing to happen to the prequels and he still did a fantastic job, especially considering (if this is true) that he was forced to cut and re-arrange his music due to Lucas re-shooting and re-editing scenes. But I still feel that AOTC and ROTS were not his best efforts.
Just my humble opinion, of course. Wouldn't mind him at all scoring any future movie, to the contrary.
Jonno said:
thorr said:
Exactly. I didn't notice it, and I now will have to listen for it to see where it is in the music.
City in the Clouds from ESB and Final Duel from RotJ are the prime examples.
I thought of the final duel from RotJ after my last post, but I never realized City in the Clouds had a choir in it. I listened to it and it is subtle in a lot of places and I think during the movie the sound effects from ships flying around drown out the choir. There are some more prominent, but momentary places where the choir is singing, but they blend quite nicely with the rest of the orchestra and they don't stand out. That's also one of my favorites from the movie. Funny I never noticed it!
It's still no LAAAAA LAAAAAAAAAAA... LAA LAAAAAAA LAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! :-)
Burdokva said:
Thanks, fishmanlee !
I admit I have not heard some of these but they seem to have been released with various accompanying media, mostly games, rather than in the movie soundtrack itself.
Still, as it was presented in the movie, the soundtrack was mostly forgettable and did not have any strong themes. Be they bombastic and loud as the Imperial March, or something more restrained and emotional, as Leia's or Yoda's themes.
Williams is by far the best thing to happen to the prequels and he still did a fantastic job, especially considering (if this is true) that he was forced to cut and re-arrange his music due to Lucas re-shooting and re-editing scenes. But I still feel that AOTC and ROTS were not his best efforts.
Just my humble opinion, of course. Wouldn't mind him at all scoring any future movie, to the contrary.
The music in those videos is exactly the same, as it was presented in the movie. Maybe it's time to refresh the memory and watch ROTS again :).
Personally, I consider ROTS and ROTJ the best soundtracks from all SW movies. Never was a fan of ESB music (neither did I like the Imperial March) and I also didnt like TPM music (except for Dual of the Fates).
SW movies NEED JW as a music writer. I heard KOTOR and The Clone Wars music and although the KOTOR had few good themes, TCW was pretty forgetable.
Kenkraly about this site:
Those trolls at originaltrilogy.com are mean and disrespectfull.
fishmanlee said:
Bingowings said:
Sanskrit translations of Gaelic as I recall?
Celtic/Gaelic to english, to Sanskrit
Isn't that how we got "Do Not Want!"
I'd be shocked if it were anyone other than Williams or Giacchino. I'd be fine with either, with a nod toward Giacchino. I love his work on Super 8 and thought he did a very nice job on Star Trek. I think it helps (or can, at least) to have new ideas for an established franchise.
Regarding the comment that Williams was at his best from 1975 to 1985; That may have been his most prolific, but I think his work on Memoirs Of A Geisha may be his finest hour.
John Williams writing with Itzhak Perlman and Yo-Yo Ma performing = When Worlds Collide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPOq4HiCeTw
you guys are forgetting John Debney!
Also, if it were me, I'd go for someone who has no track record in bug-budget modern movie scores, but I think would do absolutely spot-on - such as Christopher Lennertz. The movies he scores may be less-than-satisfactory, but his scores are always far, far too good for them.
Danny Elfman!!!
nuff said!!
Someone else I think would be nearly perfect is John Ottman. His Superman Returns score was most excellent.
“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”
thorr said:
It's still no LAAAAA LAAAAAAAAAAA... LAA LAAAAAAA LAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! :-)
ESB and ROTJ are closer to LAA LAAAA, than TPM (its Korah Ratamah, etc.)
and lets not forget this ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9COlq2blTg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zb3ML6YqJU
John Williams score to Return of the Jedi Remastered/Remixed:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/JOHN-WILLIAMS-Star-Wars-Episode-VI-Return-of-the-Jedi-Remastered-Edition/topic/14606/page/1/
fishmanlee said:
thorr said:
It's still no LAAAAA LAAAAAAAAAAA... LAA LAAAAAAA LAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! :-)
ESB and ROTJ are closer to LAA LAAAA, than TPM (its Korah Ratamah, etc.)
or "Corn On The Cob" for the Mondegreen lovers. :)
god damn it will never unhear and will now hear it every time... :(
A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em
bkev said:
god damn it will never unhear and will now hear it every time... :(
you're welcome :)
[muhahahaha]
People are allowed to be John Williams fans and hate the scores for Episode star wars prequels 1-3 and INDY IV. I find them to be totally forgettable if not outright bore fests.
1-3 required some actual effort though, i thought INDY IV was phoned in.
Would be great if the films and the music charted new territory. Bring in the star trek and lost guy.
I thought his score for trek 2009 was good enough on its own, he could do his own interpretation of Williams opening theme and compose the other music.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
I'm surprised by the amount of dislike towards the PT scores. They are the only thing in the PT I can hold at an equal level with the OT. I admit AOTC was the most forgettable, except for the love theme. I think some of the hate on how the rest of the movies played out gets unfairly mixed with the score. If you can detach yourself from everything that happened in the PT they are quite enjoyable on their own.
Of course I would love to see John Williams involved, but I know he is getting old. Hopefully he can make it to the end of the ST. Williams also isn't in his prime anymore. I think I'd like it best if he collaborated with another younger composer who could take the reigns for all Star Wars movies in the future. Michael Giacchino would be an excellent choice. I've enjoyed all his work, in particular Star Trek.