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J. Williams & LSO, The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK AUDIOPHILE EDITION - Restored & Remastered Score (Released) — Page 3

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ABC said:

You're trying to make me react to your pessimistic inputs, still worrying to have an answer to your first question in this thread, am I right ? I still don't have one and I really don't care for now.

Then instead of drawing your darkest conclusions based on your emotivity and giving this thread a bitter feeling, why don't you just relax and be patient ? The full set won't be ready before weeks anyway.

pessemistic????

OK Dr. ABC,whatever you say,at least you understand what is being said,I surely don't????

later dude

 

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msycamore said:

I see, when I read what you're doing I'm glad you don't have given up on this, as long as you enjoy what you're doing and it's not starting to feel like a work for you...

Nice to worry about that. Let's say this work is still enjoyable to be made. All should be made with joy !... So goes for this thread. ;)

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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I think it has been some misunderstanding here. He offered me in private some time ago a chance to get a disc in advance for some things I sent to him but I said I could wait til the whole set was finished, but yesterday my desire got to big.

Dark_Jedi if I understand it correctly I believe ABC hasn't completely decided yet if he is going to share it with everyone because of the lack of feedback. And I understand him, he has worked like a horse with this and the only thing he demands from us, is a little feedback, that's not much to ask.

I think it's sad that his work hasn't received more feedback, because I think it could help make the Set become even better. I don't know why it hasn't, but I think many people are negative against this kind of "restoration jobs" and don't believe you can get quality from it if it's not there in the first place, and that is true, but one key to this "restoration" is that ABC has combined different quality sources very sucessfully and that is a difference, he is to the Empire score what the The XØ Project was to the trilogy, the only difference is that he will finish it;)

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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ABC said:

msycamore said:

Ok, a serious question, how much of this set do you consider is finished? I can't wait to hear some more...

 Aha. I'm actually in the final selection (for best EQ's) of the tracks for CD3. I think I have all needed for CD1. CD2 is the most difficult: I still have to choose the final versions for tracks from 4 to 7 (and even 8, Darth Vader's Trap), and that's all.

But these last tracks have such a sound that it requires a lot of concentration to catch the subtleties where there are not so many, and I must say this part of the score is a bit exhausting to listen too much... It's like: "how do you want it corrupted ? That way, or the other ?". But I don't want to choose and close the case just to get rid of that. That 's why it takes a lot of time, not mentionning the booklet I fill from time to time.

I'll send you CD3 when ready.

Thanks! As I said before don't hurry, the quality is more important.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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All PMed feedback will be now quoted into topic (that's why I disabled my PM box some time ago), though the following one is perhaps about the OE3. Some may want to know if the whole stuff worth it, so please just don't be shy...

Jaxon's Dad said:

ABC,

Wanted to let you know that I've only recently listened to your incredible edits. Wow. Listening to your work is pretty revelatory. This music has never sounded so good apart from the original vinyl. I would love to be able to burn and take them with me in the car. Maybe I'll figure it out, but in the mean time I'm thoroughly enjoying these projects. Good work!

Best,

JD 

 ... And thanks ! :)

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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Msycamore, thanks to help for clarifications. I'm glad to see I'm actually not posting in chineese for everyone who may read my posts.

EDIT:

Just a quick note to say working on this score is one thing, and obviously I'm the first one happy with that.

To present it in a thread to everyone, reporting what has been done, to share samples, to share and update the set with people so disappointed with their SE release is another work that is to be made the best way, and to be motivated by the fact anyone who gets it enjoys it, what you can only know and let know through feedbacks.

Now if members prefer asking an other member if he will torrent it instead of speaking here to say they appreciate the improvement and are waiting for the end result (for instance), then I think the word "share" is totally misunderstood around here.

I just give its chance to that thread once more hoping I won't be the only one to do so... And we shall see.

 

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The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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msycamore said:

... but I think many people are negative against this kind of "restoration jobs" and don't believe you can get quality from it if it's not there in the first place...

... Btw, it is more than sometime here but remains unexploited / or spoiled, then more or less repairable. :)

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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Very interesting readings about the Anthology !!! :)

 

C. Mallone, the specialist about the Star Wars recording says:

The Empire Strikes Back was largely sourced from four-track ¼” tape copies containing the edited filmmixes (as three channels of music with one track being a 50 Hz pilot tone for film synchronization)...

 

... When Lukas Kendall, the author of the Anthology liner notes says:

Most of the tracks from Empire in the box set come from the original session tapes found under a pile of shit somewhere at Lucasfilm (...) these 4-track tapes were able to be mixed down by Ford Thaxton and Bill Wolford up in Seattle. So the mix used here is neither the film mix nor the album mix, but rather a new mix.

 

... As says Ben Kenobi: "the truth depends on our own point of view" !

 

Now I understand better my headaches with the stereo and why I have the feeling that I hear the orchestra in diagonal on many tracks from the Anthology ! I think there must be some troubles with the center channel.

To notice, the only two filmixes used on the Anthology are "The Rebels Escape" and "Jedi Master Revealed" (wich Mallone called "City in The Clouds" part 1, what may lead to misunderstanding).

Possible I add the second film mix in the bonus tracks then.

That's all folks.

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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For those who may follow the process (though I have doubts), I edited my previous post about "Darth Vader's Trap" with a couple of strikethrough, here.

 

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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Keep up the great work, ABC!  It's great to see such devotion to one of the best scores ever recorded (and possibly the best Star Wars score).  It is certainly one of my favorite scores and I hope you continue to restore it so it can be heard the way it was suppose to be heard.


I have a question about your latest "The Duel" restoration job.  Maybe I am too used to hearing this track on the SE album, but this latest version seemed muffled and restrained.  I realize that the ESB SE album was improperly mixed, but that track seemed more "vibrant" on the SE album.  I have been listening to the SE album for almost 10 years now, so maybe my ears have gotten used to the incorrect sound.

Anyway, keep up the awesome work and I hope you don't get too discouraged from the seemingly lack of interest in your work.  I am certainly behind you 100%!

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EmpireSB said:

Keep up the great work, ABC!  It's great to see such devotion to one of the best scores ever recorded (and possibly the best Star Wars score).  It is certainly one of my favorite scores and I hope you continue to restore it so it can be heard the way it was suppose to be heard.


I have a question about your latest "The Duel" restoration job.  Maybe I am too used to hearing this track on the SE album, but this latest version seemed muffled and restrained.  I realize that the ESB SE album was improperly mixed, but that track seemed more "vibrant" on the SE album.  I have been listening to the SE album for almost 10 years now, so maybe my ears have gotten used to the incorrect sound.

Anyway, keep up the awesome work and I hope you don't get too discouraged from the seemingly lack of interest in your work.  I am certainly behind you 100%!

It's like hearing the Beatles in stereo your whole life and then hearing them in mono.

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

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EmpireSB said:

I hope you continue to restore it so it can be heard the way it was suppose to be heard.

... I won't left my hammer !


I have a question about your latest "The Duel" restoration job.  Maybe I am too used to hearing this track on the SE album, but this latest version seemed muffled and restrained.  I realize that the ESB SE album was improperly mixed, but that track seemed more "vibrant" on the SE album...

The RSO version is the track with the more reverb in it. It may actually be shocking to know they have reverb but I guess it was more or less a standart in the vynil area, and worth to notice such kind of effect was far more natural and deep than our computer generated ones. Actually this track has too much I think.

What makes the SE version so "vibrant" is as you say because of a different mix. Notably the harps are very close and I would have loved to borrow them through layering (but the mixes are too different *imo*).

This track is the hardest RSO one to make fit in the set because of its depht. It remains better than any version of it, and once your ears dive in it there's enough to be heard for you to "vibrate". ;)

Anyway, keep up the awesome work and I hope you don't get too discouraged from the seemingly lack of interest in your work.  I am certainly behind you 100%!

Nice !

 

EyeShotFirst said:

It's like hearing the Beatles in stereo your whole life and then hearing them in mono.

 I never have listened the SE album more than 5 min... I mean outside of checking it of course.

 

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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ABC said:

The RSO version is the track with the more reverb in it. It may actually be shocking to know they have reverb but I guess it was more or less a standart in the vynil area, and worth to notice such kind of effect was far more natural and deep than our computer generated ones. Actually this track has too much I think.

What makes the SE version so "vibrant" is as you say because of a different mix. Notably the harps are very close and I would have loved to borrow them through layering (but the mixes are too different *imo*).

This track is the hardest RSO one to make fit in the set because of its depht. It remains better than any version of it, and once your hears dive in it there's enough to be heard for you to "vibrate". ;)

Since the RSO version is more considered more authentic, then I will replace my current SE track with your restored RSO version.  In fact, I will be replacing my current tracks with all your sample tracks you have made available thus far.  Listening to some of the cues you restored is almost like to the score for the first time.  Okay, I'm exaggerating as I have every cue of the score ingrained in my head, but hopefully you know what I mean. :)

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EmpireSB said:

Since the RSO version is more considered more authentic, then I will replace my current SE track with your restored RSO version.

 

"More authentic" depends on the point of view.

- The 35mm magnetic film mixes (by engineer Tomlinson) offer the more authentic version as intented for a film experience.

- The RSO version (by J. Neal and J. Williams) offers the more authentic version as originally intented for a soundtrack listening experience.

The Anthology version is yet something else (let's say a "reduction" of the Tomlinson mixes), and the SE still something else including a bunch of the Antho tracks awfully remastered despite some good restorations. But it's a bit long to explain (and so to understand even for me with all the infos... I was not meant to catch all this in the beginning and I'm still learning).

In fact, I will be replacing my current tracks with all your sample tracks you have made available thus far.

Of course I take it like a compliment, however I don't dare imagine such a melt. :0

Besides I hardly understand why so much SW score lovers haven't purchased the Anthlogy box set since then and still keep the SE's as only reference (with a little patience and insistance you might get it. I'm sure it must be on Amazon or so...).

 

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The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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This thread is not really made to discuss the design of the presentation (though it is now part of the edit)... Whatever.

Here is the art for the slip case cover (so far):

 

 

 

Let's go for a couple of inside booklet pages (rough) while I'm at it:

 

 

 

 

 ... And don't worry, the originals are high def enough.

EDIT: I renewed one of my thread in the Art Covers section: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/J-Williams-LSO-The-EMPIRE-STRIKES-BACK-Restored-Score-the-AUDIOPHILE-EDITION-Covers-Documentary-Booklet/topic/11184/

 

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The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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Wonderful booklet. I can't wait to see the whole thing.

 

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

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ABC said:

"More authentic" depends on the point of view.

- The 35mm magnetic film mixes (by engineer Tomlinson) offer the more authentic version as intented for a film experience.

- The RSO version (by J. Neal and J. Williams) offers the more authentic version as originally intented for a soundtrack listening experience.

The Anthology version is yet something else (let's say a "reduction" of the Tomlinson mixes), and the SE still something else including a bunch of the Antho tracks awfully remastered despite some good restorations. But it's a bit long to explain (and so to understand even for me with all the infos... I was not meant to catch all this in the beginning and I'm still learning).

What about the 70mm cut of the film?  Is the quality of the film mix the same at the 70 mm?  I've read that the 35mm cut was rushed which probably explains why the "Departure of Boba Fett" cue was hacked up.  I haven't seen the 70 mm cut of film (with the exception of the Special Edition cuts, which were based on the 70mm cut) and I don't know if copies of the 70mm cut have been officially released.

EyeShotFirst said:

Wonderful booklet. I can't wait to see the whole thing.

 

Hear hear!  Looks great!

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I guess some differences are about the cut (mostly for the "Rebel Fleet" track, due to a different film edit), not about the sound... But honestly I don't know.

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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Thanks fishmanlee. Noted (and quite agree)... Edit: Image reupdated... Better that way indeed. Also, the logo is darker.

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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Need any colour correction on that booklet? LOL

"The other versions will disappear. Even the 35 million tapes of Star Wars out there won’t last more than 30 or 40 years. A hundred years from now, the only version of the movie that anyone will remember will be the DVD version [of the Special Edition], and you’ll be able to project it on a 20’ by 40’ screen with perfect quality. I think it’s the director’s prerogative, not the studio’s to go back and reinvent a movie." - George Lucas

<span> </span>

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EyeShotFirst said:

Need any colour correction on that booklet? LOL

You may be surprised if I told you what is my real area for living... So thank you but you won't have too much to complain about this I think :).  I'm not here to spend my most precious skills in vain however, but only to share the fruit of an aside hobby ! ;) 

Edit: btw, I have to thank you again for your first comments in the thread, what I'll do in a next post. You'll understand soon...

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

The EMPIRE STRIKES BACK Score: "All-Sourced" Restoration & Sonic Achievement.

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EmpireSB said:

What about the 70mm cut of the film?  Is the quality of the film mix the same at the 70 mm?  I've read that the 35mm cut was rushed which probably explains why the "Departure of Boba Fett" cue was hacked up.  I haven't seen the 70 mm cut of film (with the exception of the Special Edition cuts, which were based on the 70mm cut) and I don't know if copies of the 70mm cut have been officially released.

It is the 70mm cut of the film that was rushed out for the premiere, several effect shots where missing and unfinished, and it had a slightly different editing as well as soundmix with different dialogue in some places.

I don't know if it's true or not, I've not seen the 70mm cut myself but I have also heard that the SE used the 6-track stereo mix as the source for the remix in -97. Can someone who remember, confirm this?

I don't understand what you mean by "if the quality of the film mix is the same on the 70mm?" I presume it was just edited differently to the 70mm version of the film. I actually like the absence of music in the "Departure of Boba Fett" scene in the film. Unfortunately, the 70mm cut has never been made available, but it would be fantastic if a bootleg of it would show up some day as I doubt it will be released officially by Lucasfilm.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Loving the covers ABC, I finally got round to listening to the samples that are up as well they are bang on love the Imperial March keep up the good work mate its much appreciated.