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Is this set up any good?

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This is the first post from a long time lurker here. I'd like to say thanks to everyone involved here for providing a great site and some excellent discs. I've been lucky enough to obtain copies of the TR47 and Editdroid sets and have been delighted with these.

In my quest to obtain the best picture quality for the original trilogy I am now considering purchasing a laserdsic player and a copy of the 1993 Faces set (probably NTSC version).

I presently have the option of aquiring a Pioneer CLD925 or Pioneer Elite CLD99 laserdisc player. As I have little knowledge of LD players, are these wise purchases and am I likely to get a better quality of picture than what I already have on the above mentioed DVD's.

I am currently running on a Panasonic 42" Plasma and watch these DVD's in zoom mode.

I thank you for taking the time to read this and look forward to any advice you guys can offer.
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Well, I know the Elite 97 is a favorite model, so I'm guessing the 99 wouldn't be terribly different in terms of quality.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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In my quest to obtain the best picture quality for the original trilogy I am now considering purchasing a laserdsic player and a copy of the 1993 Faces set (probably NTSC version).


Do you refer to the 1995 faces version or the 1993 DC?

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Sorry I meant the 1995 faces set. I heard the 1993 DC edition suffers from too much noise reduction especially on episode IV.
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If you want to watch NTSC then a dedicated NTSC only player like the Elite will be the choice, cld 925 like the cld 2950 are the top pal/ntsc players, if you are UK based or in a pal region and want the best pal set then one of the aforementioned combi players would be good with this set La Trilogie THX PAL with english soundtrack but french subs.


Forget to mention I have the cld2950 and I think mother has the cld 925, I find the picture to be pretty good but thats only on a 28' Sony Widescreen

Hope that helps
Egon "Don't Cross the streams it would be very bad"

Peter "i'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing"

Egon "lmagine the 97 Star Wars Special Editions"
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Thanks for all your comments. I have just taken delivery of the CLD-99 and the Definitive Collection set. Tomorrow I should also receive a CLD-2950 with the Faces trilogy.... all in all it's been an expensive last week or so

I may attempt to make my own LD capture and am considering either a Canopus ADVC-300 or Sweetspot card. After that it should be all plain sailing (yeah right, IVTC this and remove 3:2 that... sounds like I have a lot to learn!).

A guy I have been talking to in Japan has mentioned there's a small chance he may be able to get hold of an HLD-X0 or X9. He has a couple of LD-S9's available but i'd prefer one of the X models. What would you guys expect to be a fair price for the X0 or X9?

Again, I appreciate any comments or suggestins you can offer.
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Expensive week? If you are planning on buying/shipping an X0/X9, then everything up until now has just been a warm-up exercise.

Personally, I would recommend the X0 for overall build quality, but the X9 has more "consumer friendly" features, such as auto-flipping.

Just out of curiosity, what state do you live in?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Yeah i know the purchase of an X0 or X9 would set me back a small fortune! Any idea what you'd think would be a decent price on these machines?

I actually live in England so will probably be hit with big import duties, but hey what the hell
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A good price is whatever Nicolas says it is...

Going Canopus (which I believe encodes directly to DV?) with an X0/X9 is like getting Leonardo to repaint the Mona Lisa on burlap. Get a card that'll let you use a decent lossless codec.
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Agreed. Avoid DV if at all possible (and if you get a card that captures directly to MPEG, I'll never speak to you again! )

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Okay, silly question. What's wrong with DV?
originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Its colourspace and chroma subsampling. Not to mention MPEG artifacts...

NTSC DV is 4:2:0, which means one chroma channel is sampled at just half the resolution of the luma (i.e. 2 pixels share common colour info in this channel) and the other channel is sampled at half that of the first chroma channel (i.e. 4 pixels share common colour info in that channel). Compare with RGB—or even 4:4:4 planar formats—which stores 24 bits for each pixel.
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What's funny is that native footage from my mini-DV looks crystal clear and vibrant, but if I use my camera's "video pass-thru" feature (which essentially captures analog and converts to DV for my computer), there's definite loss of color range and definition. My $40 capture card with a Huffy codec blows the pants off the DV capture with my $700 camera.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Like I said I have a lot to learn and appreciate all the advice and recommendations you guys can send my way.

Following Karyudo's advice I've almost ruled out the canopus advc-300. Instead I am considerring the Sweetspot (PDI Deluxe) car or maybe the more expensive MPEGPRO card from canopus. As I don't know too much about video cards does the spec of this card look up to the job (I'd hope so bearing in mid the cost!)

http://www.canopus-uk.com/US/products/MPEGPRO_MVR/pm_MPEGPRO_MVR.asp
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I'm not sure what people here use to capture video.... but I'd personally recommend a Blackmagic Decklink card. With the analog connections it'll set you back $900 USD, but they're broadcast grade cards. Of course to capture video at 8 or 10 bit uncompressed 601 you'll need at the very least a high-performance Firewire 800 raid (like the Medea G-Raid) to capture. We use Mac's in our studio, but the Decklink works with PC just as well.


...but then I just realized that if you want to come in S-Video it's not gonna work for you....
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Okay, so the bugaboo is that DV is lousy at analog signal capture? Then I have little to worry about. I'm shopping for a new camcorder and it's not like I can go back to shooting on Super VHS. Even the formats the big boys use have some compression involved now.
originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Originally posted by: amb
...or maybe the more expensive MPEGPRO card from canopus. As I don't know too much about video cards does the spec of this card look up to the job (I'd hope so bearing in mid the cost!)[/L]
Personally I'd recommend doing the MPEG encoding in software. Don't know if this card can capture to a lossless codec, looks to me like it does hardware MPEG encoding.

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Originally posted by: SilverWook
Okay, so the bugaboo is that DV is lousy at analog signal capture?


Well, it's not terrible, but you're not capturing the full colour values for each pixel. That's all. For doing all sorts of editing, etc., it's nice to have as much info to start with before "downgrading" to 4:2:0 for the DVD. DV is still pretty much the nicest consumer camcorder video format we've seen so far (HDV excepted...), so don't panic about all this esoteric, picky technical mumbo-jumbo.

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Originally posted by: CharlieX
I'm not sure what people here use to capture video.... but I'd personally recommend a Blackmagic Decklink card. With the analog connections it'll set you back $900 USD, but they're broadcast grade cards. Of course to capture video at 8 or 10 bit uncompressed 601 you'll need at the very least a high-performance Firewire 800 raid (like the Medea G-Raid) to capture. We use Mac's in our studio, but the Decklink works with PC just as well.


...but then I just realized that if you want to come in S-Video it's not gonna work for you....



@ Charlie X I was just about to purchase the decklink extreme, I have a quick raid but couldn't figure out how to connect the LD player up to the BNC connectors on the breakout cable, I have some old BNC to composite adapters I use on a kramer video processor, would these do the trick? everyone I have asked doesn't seem to know!

I have the Canopus ADVC 300 and its a nice tool and really cleans up and stablises the source but its still a 5:1 compression and I want to squeeze every last drop of detail out of these discs.

Egon "Don't Cross the streams it would be very bad"

Peter "i'm fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing"

Egon "lmagine the 97 Star Wars Special Editions"
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Originally posted by: norinradd
Originally posted by: CharlieX
@ Charlie X I was just about to purchase the decklink extreme, I have a quick raid but couldn't figure out how to connect the LD player up to the BNC connectors on the breakout cable, I have some old BNC to composite adapters I use on a kramer video processor, would these do the trick? everyone I have asked doesn't seem to know!

I have the Canopus ADVC 300 and its a nice tool and really cleans up and stablises the source but its still a 5:1 compression and I want to squeeze every last drop of detail out of these discs.


Make sure it's the Extreme if you're going to buy it (the lower models only accept composite and/or SDI). RCA to BNC adaptors will work just fine.

I'm thinking of buying a LD player and the Faces edition to give a go at my own set. I thinking of using an AJA Io to convert either the composite or S-Video signal into 10-bit SDI (which has a tight TBC and some exceptionally clean converters internally), feeding that to a Kona system, and digitizing everything at 8bit Uncompressed. It'll eat up room like gangbusters, but we have terrabytes of firewire lying around. I could bust through 3:2 pulldown in Shake pretty quickly, make the letterbox a nice pure black, and apply color corrections with a SDI ready Sony BVM (the absolute highest grade broadcast CRT made.)
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Damn, Charlie. That's some serious horsepower you've got there. Do you work in video, or is this a hobby?

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Alright, Faces set in the mail.... anyone wanna lend me a LD player? We've a Sony at work, but from what everyone says, that's a waste of time. I'll warm it up just for kicks, however, because sometimes you just gotta see it firsthand.
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Damn, Charlie. That's some serious horsepower you've got there. Do you work in video, or is this a hobby?


I work in a post botique. We're small enough that I can pretty much waste company time and computing power on personal projects without rustling anyone's feathers. And for all the gear we have at work, I still have rabbit ears at home and a playstation to watch DVD's Sometimes you have to de-tech at home.... So hopefully I can apply some of our various geat to the task.
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Originally posted by: Karyudo
Its colourspace and chroma subsampling. Not to mention MPEG artifacts...

NTSC DV is 4:2:0, which means one chroma channel is sampled at just half the resolution of the luma (i.e. 2 pixels share common colour info in this channel) and the other channel is sampled at half that of the first chroma channel (i.e. 4 pixels share common colour info in that channel). Compare with RGB—or even 4:4:4 planar formats—which stores 24 bits for each pixel.


Hi everybody!

This is my first post. I am very interested in all the ongoing projects here and asking myself if I should start one as well. Please correct me, if I am wrong but the NTSC Signal produced from the Laserdisc player, is always subsampled on 4:2:2. What you loose by using NTSC DV is all the color information on the even lines of the signal. I got that. My question is, why all the expensive and "for professional use" hardware is using DV to digitize an analogue signal like the Decklink Systems for example?

In which colorspace does MPEG2-Video work? YUV2 or RGB? I've read somewhere that all display devices on the world produce color from RGB.

What advantage has capturing in RGB colorspace compared to YUV2 colorspace, since the source (NTSC or PAL) is 4:2:2 subsampled anyway?

I guess avoiding colorspace conversion is good because you will loose when convert from RGB to YUV2 back to RGB.

Could anyone explain what advantages to expect when capturing with 10bit (like the Decklink) compared to 8bit? Will there be finer color levels (like 0-255 <> 0-1023)?

Thanks everyone!

R2D2 from Vienna, Austria
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Let me ask a sort of oblique question: Do you think recording artists use 16-bit, 44100 Hz sampling when recording and mixing a song? No, of course not. It's best to leave the downsampling to the very last step. I think the same idea applies here. We're all trying to make silk purses out of sows' ears, and one of the best ways to ensure you're not losing any of the already-marginal quality available is to exceed the specs of the incoming signal. Oversample, if you will. Processing can take place in a format with more fidelity than what's available from the source or will be present in the output, which means you can fiddle with things without much fear that the output will have gone through yet another downgrade between capture and rendering. I think that's all that we're trying to do here.