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Is there anything that you actually like about the prequels?

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Given that the prequels are not very well liked, is there anything that you actually like about them?

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On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being fantastic (ANH and TESB) and 10 being awful (Star Trek Into Darkness, Star Trek: Generations, Avatar, and any other movie that is so badly written that it can’t even be considered a cult classic), I rate the prequels something like 4. Rotj would be a 2 and TFA would be a 6 (due to bad writing). I always feel more akin to the story as written than some of the specific directing or acting (some of the biggest complaints about the PT).

I love the glimpse into the Old Republic. The original role of the Jedi, their organization, the weight of their presence. I don’t particularly agree with the timeline. I think the Clone Wars should be longer than 3 years - maybe more like 10. There really isn’t anything in ROTS to indicate how long the war has been going on and then they did the two Clone Wars animated series. But that is outside of the films themselves. I love the way Palpatine is portrayed and I love the influence he has over Anakin. It makes his fall to the dark side inevitable. I love the subtle things Lucas did with his story telling to give the PT the flavor of another era. In many ways it was like watching one of the 50’s epics. The scale, the grandeur, the scope of the story. Being a fan of some cult films as well as the Hollywood classics of the 30’s, 40’s, and 50’s (I find it hard to watch most 60’s and 70’s films) I may be immune to some of the things that get the frequent complaints. The love story is very reminiscent of a Hollywood classic.

So yes, I have a lot to like about them, but they are no where near as good as the OT. I rank the OT up there with some of the greatest movies ever made (in fact I only rank 1 movie higher than ANH and TESB). But compared to some of the other science fiction films out there, such as Battle Beyond the Stars (a cult favorite of mine), the PT are superior.

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yotsuya said:

On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being fantastic…and 10 being awful

You’ve got that backwards.

Not to mention putting the PT above TFA for the writing (what?).

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 (Edited)

Yeah, I totally love how the PT portray Jedi as beings who are devoid of emotion who take children from their families and don’t allow to visit them even if they’re in slavery. I also love how they make it seem that being human in any way means you’re going to turn to the Dark Side. Makes them so relatable. I also love how Palpatine’s relationship with Anakin is primarily based on him telling Anakin how powerful he is. Showing genuine compassion would have been boring. I also love how Palpatine’s plans are so good that even though he’s at the center of all his political machinations he is still too good to be detected. Also the Dark Side clouding everything was a brilliant way to explain why no one suspected him. It’s so nuanced. The love story with meticulously crafted to show what true love is. Putting two attractive people in romantic situations is all you need in a relationship. Chemistry isn’t that important. And adding the forbidden romance angle makes us root for them due to their struggle of them not being able to be together because as we all know it is impossible for a Senator to date someone. In concept it’s quite heart breaking. I also always loved how Yoda had a little lightsaber and flipped around like a video game character. See…THAT is Star Wars at it’s core.

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TV’s Frink said:

yotsuya said:

On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being fantastic…and 10 being awful

You’ve got that backwards.

Not to mention putting the PT above TFA for the writing (what?).

Lucas

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The music.

Ewan did a good job with what he was given.

Some of the ship designs were pretty cool. The Naboo Starfighters were a favorite, though I might be biased because of how awesome it was in Rogue Squadron, which I played heavily at the time.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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 (Edited)

TV’s Frink said:

yotsuya said:

On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being fantastic…and 10 being awful

You’ve got that backwards.

Not to mention putting the PT above TFA for the writing (what?).

Yeah yeah yeah… you don’t agree with where I put TFA. You have your opinion and I have mine. I think the writing is the most important part of any movie. It is where things start. Face it, TFA is badly written like all of Abrams projects. Good scenes and good acting can’t save it.

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I honestly have nothing against the PT but it sad how much unnessicery drama they create.

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Pod Racing man. And that video game about Pod Racing. Now all they need is VIVE or Oculus VR Pod Racing.

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yotsuya said:

TV’s Frink said:

yotsuya said:

On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being fantastic…and 10 being awful

You’ve got that backwards.

Not to mention putting the PT above TFA for the writing (what?).

Face it, TFA is badly written like all of Abrams projects. Good scenes and good acting can’t save it.

Face it, your opinion is wrong.

See how effective that is?

Seems you have an irrational hatred of Abrams since you gave Into Darkness a “10” (which in your universe apparently means “worst”). It wasn’t a masterpiece but god knows it wasn’t that bad. So something tells me you might be a little biased if you’re going to be so ridiculously hyperbolic about how terrible Abrams’s writing supposedly is. I mean really, Lucas a better writer? The prequels specifically being better written? That’s hysterical.

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Density said:

yotsuya said:

TV’s Frink said:

yotsuya said:

On a scale from 1 to 10, with 1 being fantastic…and 10 being awful

You’ve got that backwards.

Not to mention putting the PT above TFA for the writing (what?).

Face it, TFA is badly written like all of Abrams projects. Good scenes and good acting can’t save it.

Face it, your opinion is wrong.

See how effective that is?

Seems you have an irrational hatred of Abrams since you gave Into Darkness a “10” (which in your universe apparently means “worst”). It wasn’t a masterpiece but god knows it wasn’t that bad. So something tells me you might be a little biased if you’re going to be so ridiculously hyperbolic about how terrible Abrams’s writing supposedly is. I mean really, Lucas a better writer? The prequels specifically being better written? That’s hysterical.

There are levels to writing. To start with, you have to create a good story. Lucas excels at that (or we wouldn’t be here). Then you have to develop the idea, flesh it out, people it, and develop the characters. Lucas isn’t too bad at that. Then for films, you need to hire a production designer, director, cinematographer, and actors to realize it. According to the general consensus, Lucas failed to adequately develop parts of the story, and didn’t direct his actors well. Those are things Abrams does well. But Abrams has a track record for failing to deliver a satisfactory ending to his stories. Lost started out great but became boring after the first 3 seasons and the ending was weak. Star Trek took a good story telling property and turned it into near senseless action trash. With Star Trek Into Darkness he went the hack route and stole (and stole badly) from the best of the old films. With TFA he gave us a weak plot filled with holes and inconsistencies. He gave us fantastic characters with great scenes and great dialog, but failed to string those scenes into a great story. And so typical of Abrams, he gave us the weakest ending out of 7 films. Weak endings seem to be his hallmark.

Lucas at least gave us good plots even if a lot of the other pieces weren’t up to OT standards.

I spend too much time with writers. I know few who like Abrams two Star Trek movies and most of my off-line circle of friends were more disappointed in TFA than the PT. As I said, bad writing. I’m fairly certain that 8 and 9 are in better hands. They still have a chance to be better than the PT.

By the standards I judge by, TFA failed to be as good as the PT. It failed to capture the vast grandness of the Star Wars universe. Something the PT provided on abundance. Even the OT managed to make the galaxy feel big and vast just with the dialog without showing things. I attribute it to the quality of Lucas’s writing ability. His first 3 forayed into directing produced incredible results. I believe the great fault of the PT lies in the way the story developed and a lack of honest outside editing - one of the big things that was different from the OT. I just think TFA has worse problems.

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 (Edited)

So Abrams wrote the story and Kasdan just sat there and didn’t do anything?

And the PT universe was vast when most of the important events happened on the same three planets again and again?

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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 (Edited)

I don’t see the ending of TFA as weak (far from it - I loved it because it left me really excited for the next movie while at the same time not being too frustrating a cliffhanger), I can’t think of many plotholes (certainly far fewer than were in the prequels), and frankly I have no idea what you are talking about. Lucas’s “plots” (if you can call them that) were terrible. If we disagree on that then we’re just not going to agree on anything. And dialogue is a huge part of writing, and Lucas may be the worst dialogue writer of all time. The characters in TFA actually felt real, their interactions and motivations felt real, the humor felt lively rather than childish and cringey. It was just all a massive, massive improvement. Fortunately, my opinion is the majority opinion which is why future SW films are going to be more like TFA (which is a lot more like the OT, so I don’t understand how you don’t like it then) than the prequels.

Also, Lucas only directed one of those “first 3 forays into directing” you claim…

And if this was a Trekkie site I’d be crucified, but fuck it: I would watch Into Darkness any day of the week before Wrath of Khan and certainly before any of the prequels. I really just don’t care about originality as much as I do being entertained in sci-fi action movies like these. Something new but shitty isn’t nearly as good as something old but good. (Not that the prequels were exactly innovative - Lucas himself goes on about how they “rhymed” with the originals. TFA actually felt fresher to me despite the parallels with the original, probably because it was a new story with new characters and I didn’t know and still don’t know where it was all going, but we all knew how the prequels would end.)

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I think the first forty seconds of the movies are great.

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There are things I do like about the prequels, especially Revenge of the Sith, but they are sadly few and far between.

Not enough people read the EU.

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Revenge of the Sith had a kickass opening.
While they lacked any sort of tension, the battles were fun to watch.
While they looked utterly fake, some of the worlds were cool.
“You want to go home and rethink your life.”
Ewan McGregor made for a perfectly believable younger Obi-Wan, even if the script gave him far too little to do.
The music.

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Well here’s what I do like:

  • The score (especially “Duel of the Fates”)
  • Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan. The casting moreso than the characterization, though I do like the part in Clones where he goes on his little private investigation to uncover the clone army - that’s the only part of the movie I like, and why I really want to see a solo Obi-Wan movie.
  • Some interesting environments and worldbuilding
  • The “rhyming” idea that Anakin turned to the dark side for the same reason he ultimately turned back to the light side - to save his child
  • Darth Maul was kind of cool I guess
  • Ian McDiarmid’s performance as Palpatine was awesome, and the whole plotline of Palpatine as mastermind was the best part of the trilogy
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Density said:

  • Ian McDiarmid’s performance as Palpatine was awesome, and the whole plotline of Palpatine as mastermind was the best part of the trilogy

Too bad he sucked as Sidious. Probably not his fault (blame Lucas’ “direction”) but still.

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TV’s Frink said:

Density said:

  • Ian McDiarmid’s performance as Palpatine was awesome, and the whole plotline of Palpatine as mastermind was the best part of the trilogy

Too bad he sucked as Sidious. Probably not his fault (blame Lucas’ “direction”) but still.

UNLIMITED POWAH!

Not enough people read the EU.

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yotsuya said:

I spend too much time with writers. I know few who like Abrams two Star Trek movies and most of my off-line circle of friends were more disappointed in TFA than the PT. As I said, bad writing.

I can only assume you and your writer friends were disappointed in the lack of racist overtones in TFA. Either that or the lack of tentacle porn.

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TV’s Frink said:

yotsuya said:

I spend too much time with writers. I know few who like Abrams two Star Trek movies and most of my off-line circle of friends were more disappointed in TFA than the PT. As I said, bad writing.

I can only assume you and your writer friends were disappointed in the lack of racist overtones in TFA. Either that or the lack of tentacle porn.

Considering the Rathtars, I’m not sure your statement is correct.