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 (Edited)

A few of you became very offended when I used the word piracy. Some made accusations towards me, some felt it was unfair.

So let’s take a look shall we. Let’s discuss this like we’re civilized, even if we have to pretend. We’ll discuss one thing at a time, starting with Blade Runner HDTV.

Citizen - I will be making PAL & NTSC DVDs from the 15gb capture, with 2 audio tracks, the first being the 5.1 mix they put out and the 2nd I’ll use the 5.1 mix and add-in Deckard’s voiceover, toying with the idea of putting the voiceover on the rear channels instead of the center.</span>

digitalfreaknyc i was doing this as well.

Persons interested in acquiring this on DVD include: retartedted, ReverendBeastly, MeBeJedi, ShiftyEyes, and boba feta… just off the first page.

There are more, many more: dugpa, Adamwankenobi (who actually says he’s planning to get a copy of it rather then buy a legit copy), DrVenkman, Echo3, Jay , winman42 (who wants to author a disc), Hardcore Legend <"I too am eager to get a copy of this on Dual Layer. The retail version is a disaster", Laserschwert… that gets us to page 3 anyway, only counting the members who specifically said they were interested in getting a copy of it.

Blade Runner can be legally bought. Here is rule 4: Do not discuss bootlegs of products currently available in general release. This forum is for material not available to the general public because it has never been released or it’s no longer available for sale.

It seems even Jay is quick to ignore the rule in this case. If you ask me, piracy has progressed hugely from where it was 10 years ago, you can now get pirated copies that are equal, and in some cases better quality then the official release. Does this make it okay to copy it and pass it around, so long as it’s better quality then the official release? Where do you draw the line on this? Can you all honestly tell me that this isn’t piracy in your oppinion? I have Blade Runner on DVD, sure it’s not fantastic quality - but it’s watchable, it’s legal, and I still believe that we will get a higher quality release, as was promised long ago - once all the legal issues surrounding it are ironed out.

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I do not mean to speak for everyone, but in the case of Blade Runner, I intend to get a copy of DigitalFreak's 2-disc set. While I believe we should be free to have these discs (as anybody could've recorded the HD version from TV for personal use) I do own the official R1 DVD. Even if I didn't I would still get this disc as it is of far greater quality than either of the retail DVDs (which as I understand it are deleted titles).

Warner has repeatedly stated over the years that a Special Edition DVD will see the light of day. They are starting up these statements again, preparing to have this DVD ready for the 25th anniversary of Blade Runner in 2007. I believe that the many members here will cease to share the DigitalFreak discs when the Special Edition eventually surfaces. As is the case in this community, creators of fan DVDs usually put an end to the distribution of their discs once a retail version is made available. Rikter mentions this any time such a retail DVD appears. There are many Star Wars discs, for example, that he's stopped burning/distributing due to official releases ocurring.

In the meantime though, for those of us who want to see Blade Runner in its best possible presentation, DigitalFreak's DVD of the HDTV broadcast is a big step up from the retail discs that came out during the youth of DVD. You should also bear in mind that many of the people who will get this disc already own an official version of the movie in one format or another (VHS, LD or DVD). It is our appreciation of Blade Runner that drives us to want these DVDs. Once the "Blade Runner: 25th Anniversary Special Edition" is released I will definitely destroy my DVD-Rs of the HDTV DVD and purchase the official DVD.

Right now, the fact that I already own the movie means I should be allowed to have a higher quality version of that same movie. As for the extras, I don't believe any of them are commercially available. This means they fall under the banner of "Titles that have not yet been officially released" and since they cannot be bought, they cannot be pirated.

To contact me outside the forum, for trades and such my email address is my OT.com username @gmail.com

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The line for me is drawn on bootlegging retail releases - things you can go and buy on the open market (not the secondary/used market) and I assure you that there are no releases being uploaded or traded here on this forum that has a retail release.

As everyone is stating this is an all new transfer (source unknown) and it was only broadcasted on HDTV, some of the members do not have HDTV monitors or if they do they do not have the premium channels, therefore NOT everyone was able to watch it, and these DVD’s are all preservation projects that are meant for private home viewing and I would say that 95% of the titles being worked on, uploaded, traded here (again these are not for public exhibition or sale) CANNOT BE BOUGHT LEGALLY at your local Wal-Mart. And yes, I do have the retail Director's Cut DVD, LD and VHS & I even had the PAL UK DVD (the colors are better on the PAL disc IMHO - I think I loaned this out but didn't get it back) this HD broadcast is being preserved (by me anyway) for the sake of what it is a HD Broadcasted version that’s never been seen before and most likely will not be seen again OUTSIDE HDTV broadcasting. Sure we’ll get a Blu-Ray or an HD-DVD version but it won’t have the HDnet logo nor will it evoke fond memories of the day that a question of honest interest turned a few cool people into complete jerks (so the DVD now has sentimental and preservation value – again for me) – I even have The Broadcast Version of Blade Runner (the one where the opening crawl is voiced over!) and I’ve never found that on VHS, DVD or Laserdisc. It’s an oddity (as are most of these titles) that I would only have as a vague memory as my copy was stolen about 4 years ago by someone that offered to transfer it to DVD for me (funny thing is about 1 month later they started to appear on eBay as part of a 4 disc set – shipped from the same zip code, hmmmm - fucker) but I found a copy via another DVD creator (thanks again Mitch!) – SO you see the HD broadcast version has its place being preserved.

Just think, if the ORIGINAL STAR WARS TRILOGY was NOT being preserved by us the fans – and sadly yes bootleggers and eJackers (sadly; they do have there place) the original movies would be lost forever (you have heard that it no longer exists right? – George’s own words more or less) and all the VHS tapes and laserdiscs are now starting to literally ROT themselves OUT of existence. Why? Well it would seem that the movies I grew up on and love dearly were not what the director meant to film nor were they the stories he intended to tell. But yet it was shown in theaters, released for rental, eventually sold on VHS, Beta and Laserdisc, THE re-released countless times but I digress…

The point is; WHAT if this version of Blade Runner finds itself in the same situation AGAIN (don’t forget the studios forced the theatrical – but I do like that one more anyway) and with some of the many legal issues that have surrounded the Blade Runner movies it’s possible that the studio (WB) could be forced to only release the Theatrical Version. Not likely but it is possible and in the event that something of that nature does happen I have this version in my collection.

And as far as the whole PIRACY issues goes...

ARRRGHHHH me matey!

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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This forum is for material not available to the general public because it has never been released or it's no longer available for sale.

This is the rule. It was not ignored. There are vast differences between the retail DVD and the HDTV broadcast. If you don't see or hear them, might I suggest getting a new HDTV at Best Buy? They are having great sales for Superbowl Sunday.

Oh, and "Adamwankenobi (who actually says he's planning to get a copy of it rather then buy a legit copy)"

Since you're new here, you've not yet learned that no one cares what he says.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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DarkFox, your concerns have been noted, and I've contacted Jay with a view to having the forum rules clarified.

You seem to have an awful lot to say for someone who has already said goodbye twice, and for some reason I really don't care for your attitude.

You remind me of DanielB.

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Originally posted by: Moth3r
You remind me of DanielB.



[luke's scream from esb] NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

“My skill are no longer as Mad as the once were” RiK

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I for one own Blade Runner 6 times. 3 on VHS, two on LD, and 1 on DVD. Once the oficial DVD is released, I will buy that as well and make the collection into 10.

Darkfox, tell me what is the difference between someone doing a HD Tivo of the film and leaving it on their box until the official DVD comes out and someone moving that copy to a DVD to free up space on their Tivo?

I see no difference in the matter.

-B
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I own Blade Runner on LD and DVD. I will own it when Warner releases it on HD-DVD or BluRay.

I don't feel guilty about downloading a downconversion of the HD broadcast in the meantime, especially considering the quality of the now-ancient DVD release and the legal quagmire that has kept a remastered DVD out of fans' hands. Also note that the HD capture is from a publicly available broadcast. It's not like someone ripped a retail release and posted it.

You need to re-read rule #4 and re-read my response to you in the other thread you trashed: you're reading what you want to read and not what's actually there.

What others do is their business. However, the forum can't afford to enable blatant piracy, so Moth3r, zion and I will discuss these issues. The rules will be rewritten and clarified.

I still think you're a self-righteous little prick.
Forum Administrator

MTFBWY…A

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Regarding "Blade Runner" as the specific example, I was interested in the HD version of it. I got a HD-TV recently, so I started with HDTV-trailers and it really got me fixed for the high resolution. There aren't any HDTV-stations available here in Germany (with the exception of one station broadcasting a handful of movies a year in HD parallely to their SD content). So I looked around the web, and of course there are sources to get HD-content from. So I did. I don't call it piracy, since it's stuff I already own on DVD. And since I am a bonus-material-addict, an HDTV-capture simply wouldn't be a replacement for a retail DVD for me.

And I guess that "This forum is for material not available to the general public because it has never been released or it's no longer available for sale." does apply to HDTV-captures EXCEPT for the few WMV-HD-releases out there.
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Originally posted by: Laserschwert
I don't call it piracy, since it's stuff I already own on DVD.


I have to agree with this. If you already gave the studio your money to see the film in the theater, to buy the vhs, buy the laserdisc, and buy the dvd, why are you not allowed to download an otherwise unavailable high-definition version of the movie? Once the 25th anniversary collection comes out, by all means drop the Blade Runner seeding, but until that time are we not allowed to watch a beloved film in the best possible manner?

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Blade runner has been deleted for sometime on all formats

so seeing as the movie isn`t available on retail format , this HDTV release no matter if it downloaded or shared via disc for a small fee isn`t affecting Warner Bros profit margins in anyway.

I have somewhere a post that i copied from a cartoon trading forum where a chap who trades in unreleased Warner cartoons had a phonecall from Warner Bros Piracy Manager and he stated himself that the company had no real issues with people trading unavailable back catalogue as they have much bigger fish to fry and they are trying to release as much of their back catalogue as fast as possible.

The new special edition whenever it comes out might possibly be a completely new cut compared to the dirs cut or theatrical so these need to be preserved in the best quality possible. the same applies to the original Star Wars releases

DigitalFreak should be thanked for releasing such a nice set and for putting the work in to author it etc
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The Current version of Blade Runner out on DVD is going out of Print. It is being Dumped for $6.00 or less. I got an extra one a Wal Mart for $5.50 in the "Dump Bin" (Thats their name for it and it fits). The disks are dumped into this big bin. The Price sticker is marked DB for Dump Bin.
Any way If Warner does not make good on its promise of a new release, then all we will have for a while is what we currently own because the DVD will be hard to find.
Currently I own this on DVD, VHS (The 1st VHS version), I have the cable Version from The Movie Channels VCR Theatre back in the 1980's and I have the Criterion Lasedisc. I made my own DVD Transfer of the Laserdisc and I too have toyed with making a 2nd audio track with Deckard's voice over for the Directors cut. I will buy the Super 20th anversary Edition when it comes out. OH WAIT ! That's right I held my breath waiting for it and I passed out. It is now the 25th anversary edition. I won't hold my breath again. AND I will continue to boycott Jerry Perenchcio' TV Channel and it's advertisers until he releases the rights for the Theatrical Edition.
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The retail DVD of Blade Runner is total smeg. And bare bones with no special features.

The new HD that people have been getting is an improvement from a broadcast source, better sound and incorporates special features that have never been incorporated in any version of Blade Runner before. Big difference.

Well if that makes me a pirate...

well there's a reason my nick is named after Captain Harlock, Space Pirate
There's good in the Original Trilogy, and it's worth fighting for.
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
http://www.myspace.com/harlock415
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"Right now, the fact that I already own the movie means I should be allowed to have a higher quality version of that same movie."

While that may very well be your opinion, the law says otherwise.

"There are vast differences between the retail DVD and the HDTV broadcast."

Differences in quality, I don't doubt. Differences in content - I do. As there is no difference in content, and only in quality this must be piracy.

"Darkfox, tell me what is the difference between someone doing a HD Tivo of the film and leaving it on their box until the official DVD comes out and someone moving that copy to a DVD to free up space on their Tivo?"

Simple. Under Aussie Law it is illegal to record any television program without written permission. US law is very different, however as you have "fair use" it would be acceptable to record for your own personal use... but US law does not extend to making copies... as soon as you do that, you are breaking "fair use", and entering piracy.

"Also note that the HD capture is from a publicly available broadcast. It's not like someone ripped a retail release and posted it."

Jay, making copies of either is illegal and handled equally under the law, so what's the difference?

"Blade runner has been deleted for sometime on all formats "

Region 1 is not out of print.

"The retail DVD of Blade Runner is total smeg. And bare bones with no special features."

Well you know what, welcome to the world of capital product. It may be a disappointment. I admit, it is. But it's still legal, it's still available - and it's passable quality.

As Lucas said, when moving from a democracy to a dictatorship you are met with not boos, but cheers. As is it with piracy; moving from preservation, as I'm now fully aware. I don't care if you don't wake up to yourselves, because you've been extremely disrespectful to me. I'm not asking for an apology, I wouldn't give you the satisfaction. Just know that I am not going to apologize for what I believe.
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Not to be disrespectful, but.....

You're a jerk.

1. NOTHING is being sold here
2. NO copies are made of available retail discs
3. People receiving discs like "Blade Runner" already own the official disc. Moreover, if ANY new Blade Runner disc came out, they would buy it immediately. Legally. In between releases, how can swapping discs of a PUBLIC BROADCAST cause anyone to lose any money?
4. TECHNICALLY, under the law, all fan edits are illegal. If this was actually an ENFORCED law, then George Lucas would not have encouraged it. He would have condoned piracy. This is not an enforced law. It never has been. And if studios were really concerned about this, I suggest they head over to torrent sites and other places where REAL piracy is going on, as opposed to preserving films that nobody would ever see (in that version) otherwise.

Obviously, the colorized King Kong format conversion was a mistake and didn't adhere to the rules. Not my fault. Not most people's fault.

While that may very well be your opinion, the law says otherwise.

They're actually considering changing the policy this year. Don't get me wrong- I'd love to hear a nice stupid response to this, but maybe if you looked it up you could learn a fact or two before starting your next tirade.

Get a life.
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"As Lucas said, when moving from a democracy to a dictatorship you are met with not boos, but cheers."

Actually, it was Padme who said that, moron. Next, you'll be accusing Lucas of saying that destroying Alderaan would be an excellent demonstration of his powers.

DarkFox, take your soapbox elsewhere. No one is interested in watching you play the victim here, and you aren't going to change any minds.

...and on the way out, don't let it hit you where the good Lord split you.

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>

<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>

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Originally posted by: DarkFox
"As Lucas said, when moving from a democracy to a dictatorship you are met with not boos, but cheers. As is it with piracy; moving from preservation, as I'm now fully aware. I don't care if you don't wake up to yourselves, because you've been extremely disrespectful to me. I'm not asking for an apology, I wouldn't give you the satisfaction. Just know that I am not going to apologize for what I believe.


Lucas may have wrote it but the lines were delivered by Padme.

How about this one?

http://home.earthlink.net/~harlock415/harlock150.jpg
"This flag stands for freedom and I live for what it stands for."

or this?
"We're rascals, scoundrels, villans and knaves.
Drink up me 'earties, Yo Ho!
We're devils and black sheep, really bad eggs!
Drink up me 'earties, Yo Ho!

Yo Ho, Yo Ho! A pirate's life for me."

Sorta reminds me of that line in Casablanca as Claude Reins is being handed his winnings "I'm shocked to find that there is gambling going on here!"

Since you yourself admit your intentions of aquiring a copy of thee film in question too, aren't you engaging in piracy yourself - especially since Australia doesn't have a fair use law.
There's good in the Original Trilogy, and it's worth fighting for.
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
http://www.myspace.com/harlock415
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Harlock you forgot...

"We're the piiirates... who don't do anything...!"

http://www.jonahmovie.com/fansite/images/scenes_pirates2_lg.jpg
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Greencapt, do you have expressed written permission from the copyright holders to post that picture? If not, you're a criminal. Go rot in jail you vicious thief with all the other terrorists and rapists and murderers and other criminals whose crimes are equal under the law to yours.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Look, he had somewhat valid points depending on which side of the debate you fall on.

He could have sold his ideals better if he didn't come across as such a know-it-all asshat.

Next!
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if he believes that the activity of this site is illegal in his area, then he should not participate.

different countries have different laws (and enforced laws) so i don't see how he can make blanket statements to interpret law.

it is obvious by now that those that enforce the laws in question have allowed this site to continue.

move along, now.

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Originally posted by: ADigitalMan
Greencapt, do you have expressed written permission from the copyright holders to post that picture? If not, you're a criminal. Go rot in jail you vicious thief with all the other terrorists and rapists and murderers and other criminals whose crimes are equal under the law to yours.


You caught me, but then again I'm not the one *hosting* the image- I merely quoted a link to the source (official mind you) where the actual image resides. And plus just because the image is being visually represented here it doesn't mean that you have to view it. Perhaps I only wanted other fellow terrorists and rapists ans murderers to view it.

Also how do you know I'm not already behind bars? Its not like the prison library doesn't have a computer.

But actually I think there's truth to the whole argument. In my humble opinion what we need is to round up all these pirates- not just here but everywhere in the world. Then the governments of the world should take all those pirates and find, I don't know, maybe an island somewhere and ship all those dregs of society off to that island so that they can live together not hurting the outside world and breed little criminal babies. Of course in a worse case scenario they'd probably just end up forming a country or something- imagine that. No strike that idea- nobody civil would ever come out of that situation.
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I know it is probably somewhat hypocritical for me to chime in here, but nothing that happens on this site causes the studios to lose any revenue whatsoever or be deprived of any property, as most of what is created does not exist legitimately. You cannot lose money on something that you do not print. It seems you're just trying to be a trollish devil's advocate, and post inflammatory statements in an attempt to needle a reaction out of the board members. If all you truly see is the "law", then it's time to wake up, because there are things more important than following laws created by corrupt business people seeking total control. The studios have very little interest in what happens to older films and TV shows; their main anti piracy concerns focus on people selling/uploading copies of current theatrical releases, neither of which happens here. Once their product makes the bulk of its expected profit, it is back-burnered. The studios know they cannot possibly contain illegal copying and they only pursue the largest of offenders, or those that make themselves easy targets. If this was not the case, this site would not exist. I don't really expect anyone to agree with my viewpoints, but the fact is if something does not exist, or the quality is sub-par, someone else WILL make it available, regardless of legality. Just look at all the Disney counterfeits of their "Limited Issue" titles on ebay; Disney was VERY FOOLISH to do something like that, and now they are losing a fortune to pirates who step in to meet the demand that the studio refuses to address. The movie studios are still operating in terms of a 1970's business model, and what is really going on is their refusal/inability to adapt to an ever changing marketplace for their products has caused many new and restrictive laws regarding content control. Examples of this would be the DMCA and the NET Act. Unfortunately, as we all know, the tighter the grip, the more slips through their fingers.